Recommendations for 6x4 NON CROP photo printing

[Justin Smith]

Does anyone have any recommendations for who can print out 6x4 pictures (in 100s to 150s) from a DVD for a reasonable price ?
Mail order would be fine but not companies where you have to upload the pics as uploading 4GB is not practical for me.
I used to use Harrison's in Sheffield but they have just put up their prices by 150%, from 10p each to 25p each !

There is one slight complication, not all my pics are perfect 3:2 aspect ratio (e.g. some of the multi pics) and I NOT want any cropping, i.e. on non 3:2 AR pics I want the white gaps on the two sides with the picture at full size.

Snapfish and other companies will print out 6x4 pics for about 10p each but do not offer a non crop service (and may only accept uploads). Unfortunately it's the modern disease I'm afraid : "computer says no",
I expect to pay a bit more but paying 150% more just for unticking "fit to frame" in the printer dialogue seems a bit of a rip off !

Added = Solution here ?

 

[Box Brownie]

Hi and welcome to TP

None too sure......but what about Snappy snaps???

Edit ~
What about Boots......I understand their Photo Kiosks will accept USB sticks or SD cards.

As they are self service and on the surmise that you can select "not to fit to space" i.e don't crop. It might be a one step process for all images or if per image you might be there sometime. Or maybe just a few visits required?

 

[Justin Smith]

Hi and welcome to TP

None too sure......but what about Snappy snaps???

Edit ~
What about Boots......I understand their Photo Kiosks will accept USB sticks or SD cards.

As they are self service and on the surmise that you can select "not to fit to space" i.e don't crop. It might be a one step process for all images or if per image you might be there sometime. Or maybe just a few visits required?

Thanks for that.
Boots seem to be online only, or using their "award winning software".

Boots CEWE Creator Software
Delivery in 3-7 days
Use our award-winning free software
Ideal when working with 100+ photos
from £0.10 per print

or

Boots Online Creator
Delivery in 3-7 days
Create using our online editor
Easy to get started straight away
from £0.10 per print

Thanks Boots but I'd rather use my own "software", why can't they just print the soddin' things out as edited by me ? ! ? Why is life so complicated !
Basically these companies don't want to have to do anything, even putting a DVD in a drive is too much trouble, so online upload only etc,
They want it all completely automated with no human intervention at all : "computer says no".

 

[Ed Sutton]

The other option is to make the non-3:2 pictures 3:2 by adding white borders.

 

[Box Brownie]

Thanks for that.
Boots seem to be online only, or using their "award winning software".

Boots CEWE Creator Software
Delivery in 3-7 days
Use our award-winning free software
Ideal when working with 100+ photos
from £0.10 per print

or

Boots Online Creator
Delivery in 3-7 days
Create using our online editor
Easy to get started straight away
from £0.10 per print

Thanks Boots but I'd rather use my own "software", why can't they just print the soddin' things out as edited by me ? ! ? Why is life so complicated !
Basically these companies don't want to have to do anything, even putting a DVD in a drive is too much trouble, so online upload only etc,
They want it all completely automated with no human intervention at all : "computer says no".

Ah! a pity as I thought their in-store self service kiosks would do what you wished

 

[Justin Smith]

The other option is to make the non-3:2 pictures 3:2 by adding white borders.

Good idea, though of course, that is yet more time editing, which could have been avoided by simply unticking "fit to frame" !
However, we still have the issue of these print shop's not apparently accepting DVDs ?
Having to upload 4GB is time consuming to put it mildly, and I want it on DVD anyway as a back up.

 

[Ed Sutton]

Good idea, though of course, that is yet more time editing, which could have been avoided by simply unticking "fit to frame" !
However, we still have the issue of these print shop's not apparently accepting DVDs ?
Having to upload 4GB is time consuming to put it mildly, and I want it on DVD anyway as a back up.

Life's never simple.

 

[Justin Smith]

Good idea, though of course, that is yet more time editing, which could have been avoided by simply unticking "fit to frame" !
However, we still have the issue of these print shop's not apparently accepting DVDs ?
Having to upload 4GB is time consuming to put it mildly, and I want it on DVD anyway as a back up.

I contacted Snapfish (by their extremely annoying webchat...) and they confirmed they only deal with uploads.

 

[Justin Smith]

Life's never simple.

It certainly is not these days, and it's getting more and more complicated every day, where will it ever end, it's a bit depressing TBH !

 

[g4aaw]

I visited Boots in Maidstone, Kent and they have the machines on the shop floor - self service style.
However, it was NOT possible to manipulate the file on their screen. The file was read off a USB stick & the resulting print was whatever would fit.
Said machines in Boots seem to be only in some towns.

 

[Justin Smith]

I really do not want to upload a 4GB file, it's not only how long it'll take it's the frustration I would feel if it got half way though then it threw a wobbler, e.g. "maximum file size reached". I have had that before......

 

[Justin Smith]

It has helpfully been pointed out to me that 150 pics could not have file size of 4GB !
The confusion is I used to send in the DVD with all the pics and some short videos and Harrison's just printed out the pictures. I guessed at the file size of the pics and got it wrong ! I am surprised at how large a file just 29 short (30 sec av) videos are !!
Anyway, there are 169 pics total 975MB.
I have never had to upload a file that big, has anyone any idea how long that would take to upload on a 35MB/sec (download speed) / 8MB/sec upload speed internet connection ? Is it quite "standard", with no problems to be expected ?

 

[Box Brownie]

Back of a fag packet calculation......based on 6Mb/sec upload speed...

Approx 22 minutes to upload 975MB of image files.

PS if calcs are off, no doubt others will chip in soon

 

[Justin Smith]

Back of a fag packet calculation......based on 6Mb/sec upload speed...

Approx 22 minutes to upload 975MB of image files.

PS if calcs are off, no doubt others will chip in soon

Thanks for that, have checked and the upload speed is 8MB/sec, so you were pretty close in your guess !
Hopefully that wont; slow down the PC if we need it for work stuff !

 

[Phil V]

Good idea, though of course, that is yet more time editing, which could have been avoided by simply unticking "fit to frame" !
However, we still have the issue of these print shop's not apparently accepting DVDs ?
Having to upload 4GB is time consuming to put it mildly, and I want it on DVD anyway as a back up.

You could batch process that in seconds using any decent editor. I think in the old days I used Irfanview which was free.

 

[Justin Smith]

You could batch process that in seconds using any decent editor. I think in the old days I used Irfanview which was free.

The problem is it would probably take me as long to work out how to use that software as just do it manually ! Hopefully I will not need to do this again because, now I know all my pics have to be 3x2, I will achieve that in the editing, usually by drawing a 3x2 outline round the image.

 

[Phil V]

The problem is it would probably take me as long to work out how to use that software as just do it manually ! Hopefully I will not need to do this again because, now I know all my pics have to be 3x2, I will achieve that in the editing, usually by drawing a 3x2 outline round the image.

Seriously it’s about 5 clicks.

 

[Justin Smith]

Seriously it’s about 5 clicks.

Which 5 clicks though ? That's the knowledge !
I have almost finished adding the border now, only 40 of the 160 odd pics, needed it.
Interestingly I use my Serif Webplus programme. It's verging obsolete for websites but has useful other software on there for photo editing and drawing graphics etc.

 

[Phil V]

Which 5 clicks though ? That's the knowledge !
I have almost finished adding the border now, only 40 of the 160 odd pics, needed it.
Interestingly I use my Serif Webplus programme. It's verging obsolete for websites but has useful other software on there for photo editing and drawing graphics etc.

Off the top of my head (and I haven’t used it for years)
Batch resize
Ratio 3:2
Crop to fit - no
Destination folder
Go

 

[Phil V]

Which 5 clicks though ? That's the knowledge !
I have almost finished adding the border now, only 40 of the 160 odd pics, needed it.
Interestingly I use my Serif Webplus programme. It's verging obsolete for websites but has useful other software on there for photo editing and drawing graphics etc.

when I worked in IT support, lots of older people used to complain 'it's too hard to learn new stuff', I tried desperately to convince them that the time taken to learn is paid back thousands of times. I'll bet you could have googled the answer, downloaded the software and followed the instructions to resize the entire folder in less time than it took you to do 10 pics manually.

But I'll also bet you won't believe me, and that you'll forever believe that 'the knowledge' is somehow unattainable. It's nothing more than a faulty mindset - learning has never been easier.

 

[Box Brownie]

You could batch process that in seconds using any decent editor. I think in the old days I used Irfanview which was free.

Seriously it’s about 5 clicks.

Which 5 clicks though ? That's the knowledge !
I have almost finished adding the border now, only 40 of the 160 odd pics, needed it.
Interestingly I use my Serif Webplus programme. It's verging obsolete for websites but has useful other software on there for photo editing and drawing graphics etc.

As @Phil V says Google is your friend......it took barely 1 minute to reveal a whole page of links as to the simplicity of using Irfanview to batch resize.

irfanview batch resize - Google Search

You don't IMO need to learn how to use the full depth of it.....just the steps to achieve what you wish!

All the best with getting your prints done.

PS using a Web Page creation program to do what you wish, may as you are saying, do the job but is possibly more like using a combination of ring spanner and flat bladed screw driver to tighten a nut that is too small for the spanner i.e. yes it will do the job but take you longer with potential damage to the nut!

 

[Justin Smith]

when I worked in IT support, lots of older people used to complain 'it's too hard to learn new stuff', I tried desperately to convince them that the time taken to learn is paid back thousands of times. I'll bet you could have googled the answer, downloaded the software and followed the instructions to resize the entire folder in less time than it took you to do 10 pics manually.

But I'll also bet you won't believe me, and that you'll forever believe that 'the knowledge' is somehow unattainable. It's nothing more than a faulty mindset - learning has never been easier.

No I do believe you !
But only if one is going to use the software regularly.
I have had to learn to use two different types of website software (Webplus, then Wordpress) for my own website. It took ages to learn them but as I use it often it was worthwhile. If I was only wanting to use it once or twice it would never have been a good investment of my time.

 

[Justin Smith]

I used Snapfish in the end.

I uploaded 168 pics, total file size 990MB, on a 8Mb/sec upload connection and it took about 15 minutes.

After I'd uploaded them (and selected 6x4 prints) the system told me that three of the pics would come out better "no cropping" if printed out at 5.3" x 4" (which is 1.333 aspect ratio), would I like it to automatically do that ?
I clicked yes despite the fact I thought I had altered all the images to 3X2 (= 1.5 aspect ratio), I could not understand that and would have liked to know which pics it was referring to but scrolling through 168 of them would have took too long ! I'll find out when I get the prints back.
Here :
https://support.snapfish.com/hc/en-...size-for-True-Digital-prints-with-no-cropping
I am assuming their system cannot allow for more obscure aspect ratios, like on panoramic shots.

The price was £20.23 including carriage (Second class due Sat to the following Weds for an order booked Tuesday).
Harrison's (who I have been using for about 15 years, before they put their prices up by 150%) wanted about £45 excluding carriage.

 

[Nod]

Copy the whole frame and paste it onto a 6x4 blank canvas, leaving enough space for the inevitable "shop crop". Or print at home.

 

[Phil V]

No I do believe you !
But only if one is going to use the software regularly.
I have had to learn to use two different types of website software (Webplus, then Wordpress) for my own website. It took ages to learn them but as I use it often it was worthwhile. If I was only wanting to use it once or twice it would never have been a good investment of my time.

But; as pointed out, reading how to do it, downloading the software and then doing it is quicker than what you tried to do manually. So there’s no reason to ‘learn the software’, it’d take less than 20 mins all in.

And to be totally honest; if you really do understand Wordpress programming. Your answer sounds like ‘I haven’t time to learn to make a sandwich, I’ve used all my mental capacity creating cassoulet, potato boulangere and exotic fruit soufflé’.

 

[Justin Smith]

Just got the pics back from Snapfish (BTW those odd pics at 5.3" x 4" - which is 1.333 aspect ratio- were taken on my Wife's smartphone).

Of interest is that the printer appears to have trimmed off a sliver round all of the edges and even more off one side because the 6"x4" pics aren't actually 6"x4", they're actually five and seven eighths x four..... That actually matters for the odd pic !
Attached is an example of the problem, top is the original and bottom is the Snapfish cropped version.

Before I get onto them has anyone on here got any ideas what has happened ?

For those who might be interested that pic is from a post I did on Sheffield Local History : "Source of the River Don"

 

[Justin Smith]

I have noticed that Snapfish advertise their pics as 6" x 4" (15cm x 10cm).
But, of course, 6" is not 15cm, it's 15.24cm, though does that matter ? If the paper is 3 :2 aspect ratio why should there be a problem ?

Actually, I just checked and their paper is 14.9cm x 10.2cm, which is 1.46 :1 aspect ratio, not 1.5:1.....

 

[Justin Smith]

I have just received this answer from Snapfish :

To help you minimize this issue with future orders, please note, our production facilities produce products in bulk and the printers used do not have a pinpoint tolerance when it comes to trimming. To be safe, you should assume that anything within 1/8" (~3.18 mm) from the edge of the product could be cut off. Since resubmitting your previous order would not correct the problem. I will issue product & shipping credits to your account. Request you to re-edit the project by moving the content to keep it little away from the edges and place new order for free using the issued credits. Please check the preview of the project in review mode to double check to understand how it is printed.

TBH I think that is pretty bad, that they could trim off anything up to 3mm from the edge, which on a 6x4 print is actually quite a bit. In fact they actually trimmed off more than that on some of the pics, I reckon it was 4 or even 5mm (left to right).
But why the hell do they have to trim off anything if it is a 1.5:1 aspect ratio picture !

 

[Justin Smith]

You could batch process that in seconds using any decent editor. I think in the old days I used Irfanview which was free.

I don't suppose you happen to know if that editor has a function to "batch add" a border of say 2% all round the images ?
That would avoid (most of...) the "shop crop" problem. Having said that I don't think Harrison's used to crop the images like Snapfish do, I assume they just unticked "fit to frame" ?

 

[CharleyL]

My reason for doing all of my printing myself, if I can. I use Canon photo printers. Larger than 13 X 19" does have to get sent out though. I have two wide format printers, but no space to set them up in my present studio, or I would have the ability to print 4' wide by any length. I get the result that I want at the exact size that I want this way. It costs my time, but I get exactly what I want.

Charley

 

[Justin Smith]

My reason for doing all of my printing myself, if I can. I use Canon photo printers. Larger than 13 X 19" does have to get sent out though. I have two wide format printers, but no space to set them up in my present studio, or I would have the ability to print 4' wide by any length. I get the result that I want at the exact size that I want this way. It costs my time, but I get exactly what I want.

Charley

You are right that printing them out yourself gives you full control and at one time I printed my own pics, but, using a normal PC printer at any rate, the quality was not as good as from a photo printers. Plus, certainly back then when I checked it out, the cost was astronomical once the cost of paper and ink had been taken into account.

 

[Phil V]

I don't suppose you happen to know if that editor has a function to "batch add" a border of say 2% all round the images ?
That would avoid (most of...) the "shop crop" problem. Having said that I don't think Harrison's used to crop the images like Snapfish do, I assume they just unticked "fit to frame" ?

All printers crop images, have done since the beginning of time, with film it’s a quality issue to ensure the customer doesn’t get bits of masking frame on the picture edge.

AFAIK Irfanview did give a border option, but I bet it’s 12 years or more since I used it. Certainly all the popular software options can add a border simply.

 

[Justin Smith]

All printers crop images, have done since the beginning of time, with film it’s a quality issue to ensure the customer doesn’t get bits of masking frame on the picture edge.

AFAIK Irfanview did give a border option, but I bet it’s 12 years or more since I used it. Certainly all the popular software options can add a border simply.

Thanks for that Phil. I don't remember having this problem when Harrisons used to do my printing, I assume they just unticked "crop to frame" in the print dialogue ? TBH I would continue using them even if they were 50% more expensive, but 150% just sticks in my throat !

It just re emphasises that Snapfish (or anyone else) having a "no crop" option on their software would solve so many issues and I cannot imagine it would be hard to add. Though they'd have to make "crop to frame" (plus a bit to prevent unwanted white borders on some pics) the default because most people would want that I suppose.

 

[Justin Smith]

AFAIK Irfanview did give a border option, but I bet it’s 12 years or more since I used it. Certainly all the popular software options can add a border simply.

I have downloaded Irfan and worked out how to use it to do what I need.
There are two issues to be solved :
1 - Snapfish's 6x4 paper is not 3x2. The paper is actually 14.9cm x 10.2cm, which is 1.46 :1 aspect ratio (not the 6x4's 1.5:1).
2 - Snapfish crop off a bit of the picture (to ensure no "white bands" appear on the edge of the pics ? )

L320Rio subsequently advised that Photobox has a "Shrink to Fit" option., though they may well still crop the edges due to "manufacturere bleed area", so adding a border may well still be advisable.

To solve these I used Irfan to alter the "canvas size" to 1.46:1 (which gives a white strip on two of the sides to get the aspect ratio to 1.46:1 on all images), PLUS added a 50pix border (though this may not be necessary with Photobox "Shrink To Fit"). I did the latter in grey so when previewing the pics on a PC one can see there is actually a border there !
I found I had to rotate all pics to landscape to get Irfan to do what I wanted (or it added large areas of white to get a portrait pic on a landscape "canvas"). There may be a setting in Irfan which automatically does that but I could not motivate myself to spend time trying to find out !

First time I have done this and the pics are not printed yet !
Attached is a sample, you can see where I originally put two 6x4 images together and put a thin 3x2 aspect ratio line round them, but then, with Irfan, had to adjust that to 1.46:1 and add the 20pix grey border to ensure all the image was printed out.

First = I found I had to make all the images Landscape (or it'd add a huge border Left/Right to the Portrait pics). There may be a setting to achieve this but I dont; know what it is !

In Irfan > File > Batch conversion > tick advanced >

Canvas size > settings > 3:2 (OR custom ratio > 1.46:1 then select)

Add border > settings > Frame style > Grey > choose colour from palette > OK > Border 1 > 20pix > OK

Look in > Drop down arrow > find folder > highlight files to be loaded > add (for just the highlighted files) or add all (for all files in the folder) > Start batch
> Images are in the TEMP file (C drive > Temp folder) i.e. the originals are not altered.

In the time I was prepared to spend on this I did not discover what the "copy to clipboard" and "return to batch" buttons did.

Don't forget to set the compression level (up to 100%) :
Output format > Click options > Save quality > variable up to 100% > OK

I don't mean to sound repetitive (OK, I don't really care ! ) but it is exceptionally frustrating how all this is necessary just because the photo printer's don't have a tick box "do not crop image".....

 

[Phil V]

I have downloaded Irfan and worked out how to use it to do what I need.
There are two issues to be solved :
1 - Snapfish's 6x4 paper is not 3x2. The paper is actually 14.9cm x 10.2cm, which is 1.46 :1 aspect ratio (not the 6x4's 1.5:1).
2 - Snapfish crop off a bit of the picture (to ensure no "white bands" appear on the edge of the pics ? )

To solve these I used Irfan to alter the "canvas size" to 1.46:1 (which gives a white strip on two of the sides to get the aspect ratio to 1.46:1 on all images), PLUS added a 20pix border. I did the latter in grey so when previewing the pics on a PC one can see there is actually a border there !
I found I had to rotate all pics to landscape to get Irfan to do what I wanted (or it added large areas of white to get a portrait pic on a landscape "canvas"). There may be a setting in Irfan which automatically does that but I could not motivate myself to spend time trying to find out !

First time I have done this and the pics are not printed yet !
Attached is a sample, you can see where I originally put two 6x4 images together and put a thin 3x2 aspect ratio line round them, but then, with Irfan, had to adjust that to 1.46:1 and add the 20pix grey border to ensure all the image was printed out.

In Irfan > File > Batch conversion > tick advanced >

Canvas size > settings > 3:2 (OR custom ratio > 1.46:1 then select)

Add border > settings > Frame style > Grey > choose colour from palette > OK > Border 1 > 20pix > OK

Look in > Drop down arrow > find folder > highlight files to be loaded > add (for just the highlighted files) or add all (for all files in the folder)

Start batch > Images are in the TEMP file (C drive > Temp folder) i.e. the originals are not altered.
In the time I was prepared to spend on this I did not discover what the "copy to clipboard" and "return to batch" buttons did.

I don't mean to sound repetitive (OK, I don't really care ! ) but it is exceptionally frustrating how all this is necessary just because the photo printer's don't have a tick box "do not crop image".....

If the aspect ratio isn’t perfectly 3:2; the only way they could print with no crop would be to change the aspect ratio of your image by stretching or squashing it. I’m not sure how any photographer would prefer that?

 

[Deleted member 95743]

Photobox has a "Shrink to Fit" option.

 

[Justin Smith]

If the aspect ratio isn’t perfectly 3:2; the only way they could print with no crop would be to change the aspect ratio of your image by stretching or squashing it. I’m not sure how any photographer would prefer that?

Harrison's used to print "no crop". All that happens is one gets two white strips on the two edges which are short to fit the paper. How wide the white strips are depends how far off the 3:2 aspect ratio the paper is.
It's exactly the same as printing anything in Microsoft print, "fit picture to frame" is the default (which is ludicrous in my book) and it crops the "long" sides so the paper is full of image but some of the picture is cropped off. Unticking "fit picture to frame" then prints the whole picture but with the aforementioned white strips on the "short" sides.

 

[Justin Smith]

Can anyone familiar with Irfan explain why the modified images appear to have become smaller file sizes ? I did not think I had asked it to compress the images ?

As an example a pic of the Jet2 plane we caught back from Funchal :

Original = 4000 x 2672 at 178dpi = 4.18MB

Irfan modified (with larger canvass and extra 20pix border) = 4040 x 2780 at 118dpi = 1.48MB

Interestingly the smaller file size modified image does not appear to have lost any significant amount of detail, none that I can see anyway !

Added 13.21 :
After we experimented with this at work we think we've found this :

Output format > Click options > Save quality > variable up to 100% > OK
(it had been set at 80%)

 

[Justin Smith]

Photobox has a "Shrink to Fit" option.

That sounds useful, I assume you mean this ? :
https://faq.photobox.com/hc/en-gb/articles/360019421477-How-can-I-change-the-cropping-of-my-print-

I did a test upload and this does what it says.

Upload pics > Order prints > Now click "Shrink to fit" on all pics you want that feature to apply to

There is now an option to apply "Shrink to fit" to the whole album > top tab "Shrink to fit or crop".

As of 24 Feb 23 Photobox prices (for 6x4) are :
1+ = 17p ea
60+ = 15p ea
120+ = 11p ea
Plus carriage ("Economy tracked" was £4.59, predicted delivery one week)

Unfortunately, rather ominously, Photobox do also state :
However, please try not to have important detail on the edge of the print, as 2-3mm could be cropped around the edge (manufacturing bleed area).

So, possibly, use Irfan to add a border to every pic, then use Photobox and their "Shrink to fit" ?

 

[Justin Smith]

I have had the pics back from Snapfish and I am shocked by just how much they have cropped off with "manufacturing bleed area".
Attached is an original v the Snapfish print.
They have cropped off so much I am starting to doubt myself if I sent in the images with the 20pix grey border ! I am pretty sure did.
At a rough guess I reckon they've cropped off about 3% round the edge of the image, all sides don't forget, so that's 6% in total. Unbelievable.
I think I'll have to add a bigger border next time..... If the image is 2300 pixels high and they crop off 3% top and bottom, I'd have to add a border 70 pix all round.
Hopefully Photobox will be better in this respect, will see next time.