Recommendations on pro-soft boxes

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Gil
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After some experimentation with off camera flash I’d like to move forward with investing in a descent stand, softbox and AD200. Will be using without assistance so want to purchase something that’s convenient, well made. Main use will be outdoor portraits and full body.

What’s the best kit to use? I’ve had a look at Magmod which looks convenient but the softbox seems quite small. Perhaps something that can be lifted while assembled between nearby locations
 
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Talk to Lencarta, they'll steer you in the right direction.

I bought a cheapy softbox and Godox V1 adaptor from Amazon, I've yet to try it in the field though
 
I was going to suggest Lencarta. Otherwise suggest you ask mod to move to studio lighting section of the forum as you'll probably get a better response
 
I tend to think of Magmod as overpriced and gimmicky, there's probably no such thing as a one answer fits all, but a Lencarta strip softbox is probably your best starting point, along with their excellent lighting stand.

But, will the AD200 have enough power for your needs? It's a useful bit of kit, but once you've stuck it inside a decent sized softbox it will only be able to add to the ambient light, not control it, especially in bright sunlight.
 
For outdoor use alone I would use the AD200 with the fresnel head... primarily for fill, but also suitable for starker/high fashion type light and other things as well (accent lighting). The bare bulb/reflector would be a bit better, but it is more fragile. I like the reverse fold light stands for portable/outside work; they are more compact and typically have a lower min working height. You can also (usually) set the legs flat on the ground and secure them directly with tent pegs. Also consider getting the remote head attachment for the AD200; it's cheap and will minimize the amount of weight you're trying to stabilize up high.

If you are wanting to use it as primary soft light outdoors, that's a whole other game. That's going to require much larger modifiers (kites) which will require much more stable/stronger stands with a lot more care to make/keep them secured. And I think a single AD200 is a bit on the weak side for that kind of lighting outdoors (when mixed with sun). You can pretty much forget about full body soft lighting with a single AD200 as primary... and for portraits you really don't want anything smaller than about 36"/90cm. All of this becomes much more difficult/involved and is much better done with some assistance.
 
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For outdoor use alone I would use the AD200 with the fresnel head... primarily for fill, but also suitable for starker/high fashion type light and other things as well. The bare bulb/reflector would be a bit better, but it is more fragile. I like the reverse fold light stands for portable/outside work; they are more compact and typically have a lower min working height. You can also (usually) set the legs flat on the ground and secure them directly with tent pegs. Also consider getting the remote head attachment for the AD200; it's cheap and will minimize the amount of weight you're trying to stabilize up high.

If you are wanting to use it as primary soft light outdoors, that's a whole other game. That's going to require much larger modifiers (kites) which will require much more stable/stronger stands with a lot more care to make/keep them secured. And I think a single AD200 is a bit on the weak side for that kind of lighting outdoors (when mixed with sun). You can pretty much forget about full body soft lighting with a single AD200 as primary... and for portraits you really don't want anything smaller than about 36"/90cm. All of this becomes much more difficult/involved and is much better done with some assistance.
I mainly agree, but . . .
This stand https://www.lencarta.com/all-produc...eumatic-air-light-stand-lencarta-265cm-sta012 is ideal for general purpose use, it has a large footprint and is very stable, as well as being guaranteed for life. But this one https://www.lencarta.com/all-produc...ombined-floor-low-level-stand-lencarta-sta013 is specifically designed for use with strip softboxes, built to the same standard and designed by guess who:)

And this strip softbox https://www.lencarta.com/all-produc...rip-softbox-lencarta-bowens-140-x-27cm-sof067 and others in the Profold range) have a D ring sewn into each corner, allowing them to be tied down when the wind blows. Again designed by someone who knows what's needed.
 
I tend to think of Magmod as overpriced and gimmicky, there's probably no such thing as a one answer fits all, but a Lencarta strip softbox is probably your best starting point, along with their excellent lighting stand.

But, will the AD200 have enough power for your needs? It's a useful bit of kit, but once you've stuck it inside a decent sized softbox it will only be able to add to the ambient light, not control it, especially in bright sunlight.

I think to start with I would like to further experiment using flash as fill light, and rather than having to hold my Godox V860ii and LumiQuest in one hand and trying to take photos with my camera in the other hand, I'd like to set up the flash on a stand and use modifiers to better control the direction of light and hopefully get better results

I find the occasions I'd like to use flash are when my scene is particularly backlit - for example in a dark forrest on a sunny day when your background is far brighter than my subject. Here's an example of a location where flash really helped. I'm hoping to be have the ability to choose to shoot in more shaded locations on a sunny day.

ZSC_5267 by Gilbo B, on Flickr

ZSC_5281 1 by Gilbo B, on Flickr
 
I mainly agree, but . . .
This stand https://www.lencarta.com/all-produc...eumatic-air-light-stand-lencarta-265cm-sta012 is ideal for general purpose use, it has a large footprint and is very stable, as well as being guaranteed for life. But this one https://www.lencarta.com/all-produc...ombined-floor-low-level-stand-lencarta-sta013 is specifically designed for use with strip softboxes, built to the same standard and designed by guess who:)

And this strip softbox https://www.lencarta.com/all-produc...rip-softbox-lencarta-bowens-140-x-27cm-sof067 and others in the Profold range) have a D ring sewn into each corner, allowing them to be tied down when the wind blows. Again designed by someone who knows what's needed.

Thanks for the suggestions - they look very nicely priced and well designed I'm sure. How about the part for joining the modifier to the stand and the flash holder? I would probably want to go for something portable like the AD200 and perhaps go for a dual AD200 setup later if I need more power however I may just accept the ability to only do neck and shoulders like the above to stay independent and portable. I had contemplated trying a scrim to soften the available sunlight when shooting in an open settings rather than to use flash to overpower the sun
 
Thanks for the suggestions - they look very nicely priced and well designed I'm sure. How about the part for joining the modifier to the stand and the flash holder? I would probably want to go for something portable like the AD200 and perhaps go for a dual AD200 setup later if I need more power however I may just accept the ability to only do neck and shoulders like the above to stay independent and portable. I had contemplated trying a scrim to soften the available sunlight when shooting in an open settings rather than to use flash to overpower the sun
You mean this one? https://www.lencarta.com/all-produc...e-flash-holder-speedlite-adapter-bowens-s-fit
It's a really good bit of kit, well-designed and well made, can't really fault it.

I think there could be some terminology confusion here, so it may be a good idea to clarify - A scrim is basically a large filter, used between the light source (in this case the sun) and the subject. it basically blocks out a lot of the light, which has to go through innumerable small holes to reach the subject. Very useful as a kind of large and cumbersome neutral density filter, but it doesn't really soften the light much, it's also large, needs support and better suited to a movie set than to a photographer working alone. Some people use the term "scrim" when they mean silk. A silk really is a diffuser, basically similar to shower curtain or softbox diffuser material, great for diffusing light but again it needs support and not really ideal outdoors. What does work well though is the diffuser that's usually part of a 5-in-one reflector, because it's self supporting. It will still end up as a sail in gusty weather but much easier to use than a silk, especially outdoors.
 
Personally for such use I would recommend the AD300 over the AD200, size is not much greater but you do not need an additional adapter like the S2 for the AD200 whereas if using the native fit softboxes like the AD-s65 and AD-s85, there is a further advantage in that there is a significant weight and size saving on the adapter mount of these softboxes so you gain in power and reduce in weight, win win as far as I am concerned

But as you have bought the AD200 you have all the advice you need here

Mike
 
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Personally for such use I would recommend the AD300 over the AD200, size is not much greater but you do not need an additional adapter like the S" if using the native fit softboxes like the AD-s65 and AD-s85, there is a further advantage in that there is a significant weight and size saving on the adapter mount of these softboxes so you gain in power and reduce in weight, win win as far as I am concerned

But as you have bought the AD200 you have all the advice you need here

Mike

Not yet bought anything, so your advice is really appreciated!! I may try to purchase my strobe second hand as they are quite expensive!! Are there any benefits of new over second hand?
 
Not yet bought anything, so your advice is really appreciated!! I may try to purchase my strobe second hand as they are quite expensive!! Are there any benefits of new over second hand?


If you buy from one of the 3 UK official dealers, Photomart, Pixapro or Lencarta you get a 2 year warranty and for battery powered electronics I would say that is really useful benefit

Mike
 
You mean this one? https://www.lencarta.com/all-produc...e-flash-holder-speedlite-adapter-bowens-s-fit
It's a really good bit of kit, well-designed and well made, can't really fault it.

I think there could be some terminology confusion here, so it may be a good idea to clarify - A scrim is basically a large filter, used between the light source (in this case the sun) and the subject. it basically blocks out a lot of the light, which has to go through innumerable small holes to reach the subject. Very useful as a kind of large and cumbersome neutral density filter, but it doesn't really soften the light much, it's also large, needs support and better suited to a movie set than to a photographer working alone. Some people use the term "scrim" when they mean silk. A silk really is a diffuser, basically similar to shower curtain or softbox diffuser material, great for diffusing light but again it needs support and not really ideal outdoors. What does work well though is the diffuser that's usually part of a 5-in-one reflector, because it's self supporting. It will still end up as a sail in gusty weather but much easier to use than a silk, especially outdoors.

My experience with flash in bright light has been that it blows my highlights and to avoid that I end up using a faster shutter speed which results in ‘night effect’ where my background looks like it’s taken at night and no longer looks natural. Would a powerful flash allow more natural looking results? I need to upload some examples of what I mean
 
My experience with flash in bright light has been that it blows my highlights and to avoid that I end up using a faster shutter speed which results in ‘night effect’ where my background looks like it’s taken at night and no longer looks natural. Would a powerful flash allow more natural looking results? I need to upload some examples of what I mean


I have 2 friends your end of the world that you might like to chat to, both are big fans of the AD200 https://www.facebook.com/bigkevwyllie and https://www.facebook.com/airimagephoto

Both decent blokes that will not lead you up the garden path

Mike
 
Not yet bought anything, so your advice is really appreciated!! I may try to purchase my strobe second hand as they are quite expensive!! Are there any benefits of new over second hand?
I pretty much agree with Mike here, although I'm not impressed with the Godox softboxes.
The reality is that whichever flash to go for will have both strengths and weaknesses, a more powerful one will be larger and heavier but will be more powerful and therefore more versatile.

But, as more and more of their competitors fall by the wayside, Godox prices are becoming higher and higher, and less and less affordable by many of us.
If you buy from one of the 3 UK official dealers, Photomart, Pixapro or Lencarta you get a 2 year warranty and for battery powered electronics I would say that is really useful benefit

Mike
Yes, the warranty is very important, electronic products need it. In reality, there are no Godox official dealers as such, but Lencarta is the only authorised Godox repairer.
My experience with flash in bright light has been that it blows my highlights and to avoid that I end up using a faster shutter speed which results in ‘night effect’ where my background looks like it’s taken at night and no longer looks natural. Would a powerful flash allow more natural looking results? I need to upload some examples of what I mean
Then you haven't really worked it out yet. If your highlights are blown then you're overexposing that part of the subject, and if your background is too dark then you're over-cooking the ratio between flash and natural light (or at least, you're over-cooking it for your personal taste). Increasing your shutter speed is just a way of boosting the flash power, relative to the ambient light.

But, many people have the opposite problem, they want more flash power relative to the level of ambient light, which is why most of us like to have as much flash power as possible - we can always turn the power down but we can't conjure it up out of fresh air.
 
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have you actually played with the AD-S65 or 85 ? as in my opinion they are much better than earlier Godox softboxes or to put another they have made it on to my kit list


Mike
Yes, and I agree that they are much better, although that isn't saying much. But not as good as some others, in terms of build and materials quality and design.
 
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ZSC_5281 1 by Gilbo B, on Flickr

Nice work :cool:

For that kind of thing, travelling light and working solo, I use an umbrella-softbox with AD200Pro and bare-bulb - only 20 quid, compact and light weight, fast and easy to use, and no bulky S2 mount adapter needed (it just slots in the AD200's standard umbrella shaft). You will not be able to distinguish the results from a similar-sized softbox, and they're more efficient too (like half a stop brighter) https://www.amazon.co.uk/Walimex-Pr...&keywords=umbrella+box&qid=1600507602&sr=8-11

Have you seen this 'cinematic headshot' video? The trailer tells you everything you need to know really https://fstoppers.com/product/dylan-patricks-cinematic-headshot

ps I also use this stand. It's compact and light, so maybe not the strongest, but fine for this and has the major benefit of extending legs that can both widen the footprint for stability if it's breezy and adjust for uneven ground https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Meking-Collapsible-Light-Stand-220cm-7ft-Photo-Studio-Lighting-Tripod-Adjustable/222932368399?ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649

pps Get a collapsible reflector for sure, and if it has a handle you may be able to hold it in your left hand. You're obviously good at that (y)
 
Then you haven't really worked it out yet. If your highlights are blown then you're overexposing that part of the subject, and if your background is too dark then you're over-cooking the ratio between flash and natural light (or at least, you're over-cooking it for your personal taste). Increasing your shutter speed is just a way of boosting the flash power, relative to the ambient light.

But, many people have the opposite problem, they want more flash power relative to the level of ambient light, which is why most of us like to have as much flash power as possible - we can always turn the power down but we can't conjure it up out of fresh air.

I've a lot to learn but I feel I need something more in the way of modifiers to make the 'recipe' work. For example when faced with a location like this where the sun is quite strong I wouldn't attempt to use my V860II, but could I achieve better results with a powerful strobe and modifier? Where would I start? We returned to this location later to find the light was even less forgiving.

ZSC_4861 by Gilbo B, on Flickr

I like this image but the shadow under her chin really distracts me - and I'm wondering if the use of a reflector is all this needs to improve it? I guess what I'm saying is that subtle improvements would be a step in the right direction, and I want to progress my understanding of what's needed to improve the results I'm able to get using natural light.

My idea was to purchase something like an AD200 to me started with the addition of another AD200 if I found I needed the extra power - or would I just be as well going for the AD300 from the get go.
 
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Gil, this isn't an exact science. For an amateur photographer, a "good" shot is a shot that you personally are happy with. And if that's the type of shot that you like then yes, a simple reflector would make a big difference and would probably satisfy your needs.

It's very different for a pro who needs to satisfy clients, and to be able to get results that they're happy with in all weather conditions. When I did outdoor fashion-type shoots I'd have either a van or my 4x4 full of multiple powerful battery-powered lights, stands, boom arms, modifiers and so on, and the cost didn't matter. The insured cost came to about £12K from memory. A quick price check shows that the basic AD200 costs £296, the same in AD300 is massively more expensive at £418, and what do you actually get in terms of extra power for the extra £122? Just another half stop of light. The AD1200, at £1512, costs 5 times as much but has 6 times as much power, so is actually better value. You need to decide how much you want to spend, and on what offers the best value for money for your own needs. I'm lucky, I don't need to buy any lights, and it's a very long time since I bought any, having been sponsored by different manufacturers for the last many years, but if I was paying for a light myself I'd be reluctant to spend money that didn't actually need to be spent.

For outdoor use alone I would use the AD200 with the fresnel head... primarily for fill, but also suitable for starker/high fashion type light and other things as well (accent lighting). The bare bulb/reflector would be a bit better, but it is more fragile. I like the reverse fold light stands for portable/outside work; they are more compact and typically have a lower min working height. You can also (usually) set the legs flat on the ground and secure them directly with tent pegs. Also consider getting the remote head attachment for the AD200; it's cheap and will minimise the amount of weight you're trying to stabilize up high.

If you are wanting to use it as primary soft light outdoors, that's a whole other game. That's going to require much larger modifiers (kites) which will require much more stable/stronger stands with a lot more care to make/keep them secured. And I think a single AD200 is a bit on the weak side for that kind of lighting outdoors (when mixed with sun). You can pretty much forget about full body soft lighting with a single AD200 as primary... and for portraits you really don't want anything smaller than about 36"/90cm. All of this becomes much more difficult/involved and is much better done with some assistance.
And that's a very valid point too. I would do the same for a lot of outdoor shots. Choosing the right modifier (and using it correctly) in the studio makes a massive difference but outdoors? Not so much. Again, if the photos don't need to please anyone else you can normally change the photo to suit the available resources, e.g. go for a head shot if you don't have the power for a full length, and go for cloudy weather when you don't have the power for bright sunlight. You can often "increase" power simply by not using a modifier, or by using something like the high-intensity reflector, which I've used so often outdoors https://www.lencarta.com/all-products/light-shapers/lencarta-high-intensity-reflector-mod009 and, poor solution but workable, you can often also make up for inadequate power by moving the light so close that it's in shot, and then clone it out afterwards.
 
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I think to start with I would like to further experiment using flash as fill light, and rather than having to hold my Godox V860ii and LumiQuest in one hand and trying to take photos with my camera in the other hand, I'd like to set up the flash on a stand and use modifiers to better control the direction of light and hopefully get better results
I find the occasions I'd like to use flash are when my scene is particularly backlit - for example in a dark forrest on a sunny day when your background is far brighter than my subject. Here's an example of a location where flash really helped. I'm hoping to be have the ability to choose to shoot in more shaded locations on a sunny day.
That's a nice result; but you need to understand what made the difference... the biggest part is that the second image has ~ 2 stops more ambient recorded. And then there's the fill flash which probably added a little, but it doesn't show; which means it didn't add much and the tiny lumiquest modifier made zero difference... the results are essentially exactly what I described doing (just using a bare head for fill).
I like this image but the shadow under her chin really distracts me - and I'm wondering if the use of a reflector is all this needs to improve it?
Using a reflector would probably have helped, or a slightly different pose/angle... using reflectors outdoors w/o an assistant is even worse than using softboxes.
Choosing the right modifier (and using it correctly) in the studio makes a massive difference but outdoors? Not so much.
This is the point I've been making... using a modifier that is too small, from too far, or that is too weak, makes very little difference to the results (if any). And using suitable modifiers correctly outdoors is quite difficult (especially alone); many/most don't, even when they think they are.
It's the same kind of thing as people thinking they are creating soft light using a little shoot through umbrella in a small room... what they are actually doing is turning the room into a light box.

I would suggest just getting a decent stand (easily weighted/staked) and a way to easily mount your 860 to it (tilting cold shoe). And then figure out what you can, and can't do with it... then you can decide what you need to add to your kit. TBH, the AD200 fresnel doesn't have a lot of capability that theV860 can't do about as well... there's even some things the 860 would probably be better for (e.g. the AD200 doesn't zoom). There are definitely reasons to get an AD200; but there are also reasons why an AD200 might not be the right choice for you in the end.
My experience with flash in bright light has been that it blows my highlights and to avoid that I end up using a faster shutter speed which results in ‘night effect’ where my background looks like it’s taken at night and no longer looks natural. Would a powerful flash allow more natural looking results?
This is an angle thing, and the reason to get the flash farther off camera; wherever the flash shows, you have a double exposure. So if you add light from an angle that adds to the highlights but not the BG then you are going to have that result... a more powerful flash won't make any difference.
 
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I would suggest just getting a decent stand (easily weighted/staked) and a way to easily mount your 860 to it (tilting cold shoe). And then figure out what you can, and can't do with it... then you can decide what you need to add to your kit.

That might be the best first step for me so I can get my head around using off camera flash. Perhaps using it in dimly lit settings will allow me to experience what I can do with the light, and then when I can properly apply it and realise it's limitations, make a decision on a more powerful flash.

I mainly agree, but . . .
This stand https://www.lencarta.com/all-produc...eumatic-air-light-stand-lencarta-265cm-sta012 is ideal for general purpose use, it has a large footprint and is very stable, as well as being guaranteed for life. But this one https://www.lencarta.com/all-produc...ombined-floor-low-level-stand-lencarta-sta013 is specifically designed for use with strip softboxes, built to the same standard and designed by guess who:)

And this strip softbox https://www.lencarta.com/all-produc...rip-softbox-lencarta-bowens-140-x-27cm-sof067 and others in the Profold range) have a D ring sewn into each corner, allowing them to be tied down when the wind blows. Again designed by someone who knows what's needed.

Stand wise- do you think these would be good purchases for use with my V860ii with plans to continue using them in the future when I purchase a more powerful strobe - or would I be as well just sticking to bare flash to start with.
 
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That's a nice result; but you need to understand what made the difference... the biggest part is that the second image has ~ 2 stops more ambient recorded. And then there's the fill flash which probably added a little, but it doesn't show; which means it didn't add much and the tiny lumiquest modifier made zero difference... the results are essentially exactly what I described doing (just using a bare head for fill).

Do you mean because I used f1.8 as opposed to f4, and used a shutter speed of 1/250 instead of 1/500.

If I recall correctly I was using 1/2 power whilst holding my flash at arm length from me and as close as possible to the model on my right side (her left). I agree - adjusting from 1/16th all the way to 1/2 power made only very subtle differences so the flash wasn't really doing much. I just wanted a result where I didn't need to use shadow recovery in post, and could still keep the photo looking somewhat natural
 
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That might be the best first step for me so I can get my head around using off camera flash. Perhaps using it in dimly lit settings will allow me to experience what I can do with the light, and then when I can properly apply it and realise it's limitations, make a decision on a more powerful flash.
Yes, I think this makes sense. It seems to me that you've been making life hard for yourself and that it would make sense to experiment and learn more before deciding to spend more.

Stand wise- do you think these would be good purchases for use with my V860ii with plans to continue using them in the future when I purchase a more powerful strobe - or would I be as well just sticking to bare flash to start with.
These are very good stands, well up to the job of supporting lights fitted with softboxes in normal weather conditions, but you don't need something that good for a small flashgun without a modifier, so the answer depends on your future decisions - bring out the tarot cards:)
There is a simple answer that is often not given, instead of trying to find lighting to overcome the conditions, find conditions that your lighting can handle

mike
Which is what I said in post 21, but you said it more elequently.
 
Not yet bought anything, so your advice is really appreciated!! I may try to purchase my strobe second hand as they are quite expensive!! Are there any benefits of new over second hand?
warranty on the new
 
try looking at the profoto a1x brilliant piece of kit
just what a pro needs
 
Do you mean because I used f1.8 as opposed to f4, and used a shutter speed of 1/250 instead of 1/500.
Yes, f/ 1.8 vs f/4 is about 2.25 stops more light, and 1/250 ISO 200 vs 1/500 ISO 500 is about .25 stops less light... net result is ~ 2 stops more ambient.
If I recall correctly I was using 1/2 power whilst holding my flash at arm length from me and as close as possible to the model on my right side (her left). I agree - adjusting from 1/16th all the way to 1/2 power made only very subtle differences so the flash wasn't really doing much. I just wanted a result where I didn't need to use shadow recovery in post, and could still keep the photo looking somewhat natural
Your description of what you recall doesn't match the results... if you added flash from camera right you would have been adding to the highlights and increasing the lighting ratio (making shadow side relatively darker). But I suspect "camera right" was really more/less on axis and adding to both sides... which really just brings up the subject (illuminated area) relative to the BG (too distant for the flash power). Then again, it is harder to see the added light when it is only being added to the existing light (rt side of image).
 
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