Return of Vinyl Records

cosmicma said:
as far as i am aware CD is not a compressed format
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It is a digitally limited one though.

Back then we never used the word compression, but the fact remains, there's a lot more data on the master tape than there is on the final cd.
 
There's a lot more on master tapes than on vinyl!

Not sure (m)any of us could tell the difference between a CD and a vinyl source (no clicks or crackles [most unlikely!!!]) in a normal room.
 
I think most audio engineers would think that there is much more data on a CD as opposed to vinyl (Vinyl by virtue of its physical properties has much of the bass low removed, and has much lower dynamic range than CD's. However vinyl does have a warmth that is pleasing to many listeners (think if it as a VSCO preset.....:exit:) Vinyl also has less room to put its 'data' on the inside of the record than the outside,


Two interesting articles on the CD vs Vinyl debate

http://www.vox.com/2014/4/19/5626058/vinyls-great-but-its-not-better-than-cds

http://www.laweekly.com/music/why-cds-may-actually-sound-better-than-vinyl-5352162
 
Because i work in the Audio Production/Music world, i was in two minds about joining in on this, but what the hell :)

A CD by nature is a 44.1/16bit medium, and is uncompressed. Meaning that its easy to rip an uncompressed WAV from a CD and loose nothing, however, depending on the encoder you use, your going to change the file bit for bit.

Vinyl, by nature, has an infinite resolution, unlike CD, so the potential for more 'stuff' is there, but often the high and low end suffers due to the physical real estate found on the vinyl. Next time you listen to a record, notice how the ballads are almost always near the end of the side, because there isn't as much dynamic range/excitement in them compared to other songs, ergo, they take up less physical space on the pressing.

But yeah, i agree, most people won't tell the difference between well pressed Vinyl and a CD. Unless you are sat in a good room ( far more important than the system you are listening through), and thought a fairly decent transparent system.

As for Valves vs Solid State, there is arguments for both. Well designed solid state stuff can sound as good if not better than a valve alternative, but a lot of people like valves for the 'warmth' etc, which at the end of the day is just distortion.
 
Got loads of records in the attic but no player now! This thread makes me want to research a decent player!
 
Interesting thread this. I found it fascinating that my 23 year old son has starting collecting Vinyl records and asked for a record player this June just gone, for his birthday. I didn't go mad on an expensive one, just in case it was fad. He is still collecting vinyl and enjoying it.
But it did make me go up into the loft and dig out the old vinyl's that have been up there for years. We powered up my 'old' (as new) Technics separate's system and had a great afternoon together. Not once did he comment on the crackles. :)
It was great to listen to 'dark side of the moon' again. Brought back some good memories of sharing a house with some mates and terrorising the neighbours with out music.

Kev.
 
Vinyl brings back some good memories. We still had a few records that we bought together when we were 18 (now married for nearly 40 years...) and there were others that reminded me of parties during my student days, but no more. Our record deck died and it was difficult to replace this sort of thing in SA without spending ridiculous amounts of money, so we just tossed a couple of hundred LPs. I think we both lost interest in music some time after that, never regained it, and gave my son and his wife our hifi system and all the CDs.
 
SimonUK said:
Because i work in the Audio Production/Music world, i was in two minds about joining in on this, but what the hell :)

A CD by nature is a 44.1/16bit medium, and is uncompressed. Meaning that its easy to rip an uncompressed WAV from a CD and loose nothing, however, depending on the encoder you use, your going to change the file bit for bit.

Vinyl, by nature, has an infinite resolution, unlike CD, so the potential for more 'stuff' is there, but often the high and low end suffers due to the physical real estate found on the vinyl. Next time you listen to a record, notice how the ballads are almost always near the end of the side, because there isn't as much dynamic range/excitement in them compared to other songs, ergo, they take up less physical space on the pressing.

But yeah, i agree, most people won't tell the difference between well pressed Vinyl and a CD. Unless you are sat in a good room ( far more important than the system you are listening through), and thought a fairly decent transparent system.

As for Valves vs Solid State, there is arguments for both. Well designed solid state stuff can sound as good if not better than a valve alternative, but a lot of people like valves for the 'warmth' etc, which at the end of the day is just distortion.
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Interesting point in that last paragraph. Sound engineers/producers/mixers spend ages getting their product sounding how they intend it to sound so why introduce extra warmth after all their efforts?

Always makes me laugh when people spend thousands on ICE - an environment where (unless you drive a McLaren F1) the driver never sits in the middle of the sound stage and where there's usually a nasty vibration (in terms of sound) going on in close proximity.
 
Nod said:
Interesting point in that last paragraph. Sound engineers/producers/mixers spend ages getting their product sounding how they intend it to sound so why introduce extra warmth after all their efforts?

Always makes me laugh when people spend thousands on ICE - an environment where (unless you drive a McLaren F1) the driver never sits in the middle of the sound stage and where there's usually a nasty vibration (in terms of sound) going on in close proximity.
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Its all about how your ears are trained though. I'm cursed/blessed with near perfect pitch. So its REALLY hard for me to listen to a lot of things, but i will notice a pitching or timing error. But if you just like listening to music, and your ears are adept to picking up, for example 'Ohh, there is a pretty broad low-shelf on this track' , then people don't even know that they are listening to the track outside of the context it was mixed in.

I rarely listen to Vinyl.

But i spend a considerable amount of time working in room that are treated excellently, and listening to very flat, powered speakers, mainly PMC and Genelec (although i think PMC now make hifi stuff too?) , So its hard for me to listen to subjectively 'worse' audio. But it makes a nice change from listening to stuff that fatigues your ears all day.
 
SimonUK said:
Its all about how your ears are trained though. I'm cursed/blessed with near perfect pitch. So its REALLY hard for me to listen to a lot of things, but i will notice a pitching or timing error. But if you just like listening to music, and your ears are adept to picking up, for example 'Ohh, there is a pretty broad low-shelf on this track' , then people don't even know that they are listening to the track outside of the context it was mixed in.

I rarely listen to Vinyl.

But i spend a considerable amount of time working in room that are treated excellently, and listening to very flat, powered speakers, mainly PMC and Genelec (although i think PMC now make hifi stuff too?) , So its hard for me to listen to subjectively 'worse' audio. But it makes a nice change from listening to stuff that fatigues your ears all day.
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Interesting post, not sure how finely tuned my ears are :)
 
I remember the days when CD came out, and when Philips produced its own players before the under licence stuff started to appear. Listening side by side to the vinyl album on my bedroom dual record player and technics AA amp versus the DDD version of the CD, the CD revealed so much more.

I much prefer it, and I was probably one of the few who also bought sacd which was a brilliant step up.

I've sold old my records many years ago, I really can't see the point of vinyl records in 2015 other than a retro hipster cool thing. I definitely wouldn't go out and get one for current day music.
 
dejongj said:
I remember the days when CD came out, and when Philips produced its own players before the under licence stuff started to appear. Listening side by side to the vinyl album on my bedroom dual record player and technics AA amp versus the DDD version of the CD, the CD revealed so much more.

I much prefer it, and I was probably one of the few who also bought sacd which was a brilliant step up.

I've sold old my records many years ago, I really can't see the point of vinyl records in 2015 other than a retro hipster cool thing. I definitely wouldn't go out and get one for current day music.
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Trouble is Vinyl is not very practical, other formats are so much more portable, even if the sound is not as good ...
 
Eeeeee, Haven't heard that for quite a few years now Graham. My Dad used to say that (along with `wireless` when referring to the radio)
 
OldCarlos said:
Eeeeee, Haven't heard that for quite a few years now Graham. My Dad used to say that (along with `wireless` when referring to the radio)
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Both my parents called it the wireless. Probably to do with the era when people grew up, my old man was born in 1906 and my mother shortly after WW1.
 
Gramophone they are probably antiques now, especially the wind up ones :)
 
LOVE vinyl - have a few thousand and enjoy the warmth of the sound, and the hunt in 2nd hand shops on a Saturday afternoon.

Good there is a resurgence, tho peeps are saying this is a kind of hipster fad akin to the 'craft beer' revival (tho there was always 'craft beer', it was called ale!). More philistines than purists perchance?
I say it will grow for a year/maybe two, as had it has done in the past year, and then fade when the new hipster movement comes along.
 
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Thatchapthere said:
Who remembers their first mp3?
Ahhh...halcyon days :)
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Yup it was ripped from CD :) Kept it digital all the way. It was Blue Blot ripped in 192K per stereo channel. Took up so much space on the device. Sounded perfectly ok with the s***ty air phones there were at the time.
 
dejongj said:
Yup it was ripped from CD :) Kept it digital all the way. It was Blue Blot ripped in 192K per stereo channel. Took up so much space on the device. Sounded perfectly ok with the s***ty air phones there were at the time.
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Sorry, dejongi, my MP3 comment was meant as sarcasm haha - didn't think it'd get an earnest reply.
 
Rapscallion said:
I think most audio engineers would think that there is much more data on a CD as opposed to vinyl (Vinyl by virtue of its physical properties has much of the bass low removed, and has much lower dynamic range than CD's. However vinyl does have a warmth that is pleasing to many listeners (think if it as a VSCO preset.....:exit:) Vinyl also has less room to put its 'data' on the inside of the record than the outside
Click to expand...

Interesting stuff, I didn't know that.

My current amp setup is known for having quite a "warm" sound apparently, so whilst it's great (to my ear) for my CD player (which apparently can sound cold with some amps), with vinyl the results might be a bit too warm.

What do you think?
 
Try it! If YOU like it, that's what's important. That's why there are such things as graphic equalizers and presets for tones on most devices.
 
Thatchapthere said:
Who remembers their first mp3?
Ahhh...halcyon days :)
Click to expand...
Not an MP3 (I have no idea what the format was) I was given a CD containing all the Beatles albums with a graphic interface. So many years ago.
 
If you have a good amp you'll ignore evil things such as graphic equalisers and presets. I want to hear something how it was originally mixed not distorted by nonsense. I don't miss Vinyl apart from the art work, though when I moved from my parents my younger brother kindly sold all my vinyl collection including some very rare coloured vinyl!. Looking after turntables, cartridges and the vinyl themselves was a PITA. I replaced what I could with cd, but what is amazing is the difference in sound between original cds and remixed cds - the sound quality is so much better
 
simon ess said:
Arcam?
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Yes, good guess! Had them for years - bi-amped alpha 8r & 8p.

Nod said:
Try it! If YOU like it, that's what's important. That's why there are such things as graphic equalizers and presets for tones on most devices.
Click to expand...

Yes, I might give it a try and see what it's like (no EQs though, just bass & treble controls which I usually bypass).
 
Nod said:
Try it! If YOU like it, that's what's important. That's why there are such things as graphic equalizers and presets for tones on most devices.
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Back in the 80s I fitted a graphic equaliser that boasted 50 watts per Chanel and an additional booster to my pioneer car cassette stereo. Sounded incredible until I hit the boosted button, and ended up blowing the equaliser :)
 
Overexposed said:
If you have a good amp you'll ignore evil things such as graphic equalisers and presets. I want to hear something how it was originally mixed not distorted by nonsense. I don't miss Vinyl apart from the art work, though when I moved from my parents my younger brother kindly sold all my vinyl collection including some very rare coloured vinyl!. Looking after turntables, cartridges and the vinyl themselves was a PITA. I replaced what I could with cd, but what is amazing is the difference in sound between original cds and remixed cds - the sound quality is so much better
Click to expand...


Indeed, GEs and the like are the Devil's work!!! I've also replaced everything I wanted to keep from vinyl with CDs and have gone for the newer versions of the CDs rather than the early transfers which used the original master tapes and gave no thought to the "new" sound qualities that CDs have compared to vinyl (early Led Zeppelin transfers were among the worst offenders and inspired JP to get back in there and remaster them!)
 
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