Returning to film

apollo_luddite

apollo_luddite

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Name
Phil
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A few weeks ago, while sitting at the computer photoshopping some RAW DSLR images with numb buttocks from sitting so long, I finally admitted what I had suspected for a long time. I wasn't enjoying it any more.

I got into photography seriously about 25 years ago, with an OM20 my dad bought me. And here I was in 2011 sitting at a computer.

I don't print that many of my digital shots, and my shelves are full of hundreds of DVD-Roms with thousands of photos I will never have the time to trawl through. I have 2 young kids & I realised that with the time taken on the computer 'processing' my photos, I didn't actually have much time to get out there and enjoy 'photography'.

So I sold my DSLRs (must admit we have kept our family Sony Nex-5 though), dug my old camera bags with various old Olympus stuff in them out and went a bit mad on ebay returning to my youth. I will probably not keep everything because there's too much but I look forward to getting to know it all before that happens. The cost was a fraction of the amount I sold my DSLRs for. I'm now the proud owner of an OM1, OM2n, OM20 with various zuiko lenses & a crappy old Tokina lens, 2 Minolta AF SLRs (Dynax 5 & Dynax 404si, both with standard zoom lenses - I just liked the look of them and they're relatively small like the Olympus OM stuff) and an Olympus mju zoom compact which was embarrasssingly cheap, is immaculate & will probably be terrible. I also bought several colour print films & a roll of kodak black & white print film.

My first trip out loaded with film was to the local nature reserve on a gorgeous sunny day. I took the OM1 & OM2. Here's a few of the things I noticed:

1) I had totally forgotten the joy of photography. I did everything manually, used hyperfocal distances, chose my apertures carefully, used a tripod when needed. Used filters. It was fabulous.

2) The difference between quality of lenses seems to be more apparent with film. The Tokina 28mm was noticably poorer than the Zuiko 28mm. The Zuiko lenses are pin-sharp.

3) Modern print films are much better than when I last used them. Ektar 100 is gorgeous.

4) It makes a big difference who processes your films.

5) I love using a 'proper' camera with a manual focus lens, manual wind-on & a fabulous bright viewfinder (the Zuiko 50mm f1.4 is incredible to look through).

6) I love film. I love photography again.

7) I have started an album of real prints, not computer pixels!

So I have a couple of questions.

Where should I get my black & white film processed & printed for best quality results (I don't have the space for a darkroom)?

Same question for colour print film.

Which compact 35mm camera will give the best results for snapshots (the Olympus mju ii seems to be a favourite of many)?

Sorry this has been long-winded, just had to share my delight!
 
Nice story...wish there was about another 500 million like you and film would definitely have a future ;)
 
Really cool story, it's good to see you've got your passion for photography back again!

Ilford have a great B&W dev+print service and provide proper optical prints, Peak Imaging are great and a few of my friends use Genie Imaging and recommend them although I've not used them myself. Otherwise depending on where you live there may be a local pro lab which'll give you good service! Peak and Genie also process colour neg and slide film so they're ones to check out for that.

Depending on what you want out of your compact, there are small manual focus rangefinders like the Olympus XA(aperture priority exposure), or auto focus rangefinders like the Nikon L35AF/Canon Sure Shot (although these are quite chunky) and then smaller really pocket-sized cameras; the Mju II aka the Stylus Epic is rated very highly, as well as the Yashica T series. I have a Mju III zoom 80 which to be honest isn't great for daylight stuff but when it gets dark it's fantastic for super quick flash portraits (eg. 1 2 3!
 
If you are an Olympus user then there is only one compact. The Trip. You too can be David Bailey and pay no more than £10 on ebay...
 
Welcome back :)

As far as processing goes, Black and White with Prints just has to be Ilford. Proper Silver Gelatine prints of extreme loveliness. Not cheap, but worth every penny. For colour, I have to be honest, the only place I've used recently is Peak Imaging, who were pretty damned good.
 
Adding to Jak's advice...the boot sales start soon and I have quite a collection of Compact P&Ss and pick them up from 50p to £1.50, and they all work (well they are not knackered by many Pros ;) ), and you might agree with me that that it can be fun just wandering around picking up these cameras to play with.
BTW:- if you want really sharp shots from a P&S, avoid the ones with a zoom.
 
Great story!

You don't need a darkroom to develop b&w, I use a changing bag and the kitchen :D It costs far less than then getting someone else to do it.

(y)
 
Thanks for all the replies. I like the sound of Ilford because I was getting concerned that all printing from film seems to be digital now. Peak Imaging is a name I remember too!
 
Unfortunately it is still digital even from Ilford, pretty much everywhere works by scanning the negs/transparencies and exposing the paper using an RGB laser or LEDs.
I don't actually know anywhere that does just a purely optical line now except for hand enlargements that a few places do.
 
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Very nice story and welcome back, I use Photo Express in Hull for colour and if you ever use C41 B&W they process that as well, very good work, never had a problem and if you quote TP and your forum name you get .50p per film discount. To have film developed and scanned to disc large file £4.00 after discount inc return P&P.

http://www.photo-express.co.uk/faq.html
 
Must admit I'm a little uncomfortable with the scanning then printing method, though from what I've had printed so far, the quality is excellent. I've used my local Jessops which I think will be fine for snapshots. Will try Peak Imaging for the more serious stuff. Is E6 printing all done digitally too now? How do the prints from transparencies (Velvia is the one I'm interested in) compare to prints from colour print film such as Ektar? Is it worth the extra expense?
 
pretty much everything is scan and digital print now, colour - e6 and c41 or B&W unless you hunt down a real specialist darkroom printer, and be prepared for Mahoosive bills.

Then again, Cibachromes from Velvia weren't exactly cheap, were they :shrug:
 
Bye and large, I'm actually happy with a hybrid process, shooting film then scanning and doing any manipulation I'd have done in the darkroom printing process via CS5, then output as per any other digital file. However, very occasionally, I'll get something on film right enough "in the camera" that I want a "proper" wet print of it. Fortunately, I have a (fairly) local lab that still have the old kit and are happy enough to accommodate me. They're also great if I've a bunch of colour film that I need processing asap - drop it off in the morning and pick it up later the same day (they'll even give me a bell to say the films are ready :)) I haven't used them much over the last 6-9 months, as I've been (mainly) processing my own C41 and E6, but I'm thinking that I may just stick to processing black and white when my current 2 sets of colour chemicals expire.
 
I can't help but agree with the OP, there's nothing quite like film. My experience is similar, started shooting with a Nikon FG about 20 years ago, got an AF film camera, got a digital SLR and over time I simply lost interest for the same reasons. Couple of weeks ago I dug out an OM-2s from the back of a cupboard, loaded an old roll of film that was sitting next to it and I haven't looked back.

For me the fun lays in the process of loading the film, ensuring it's picked up on the reel, checking exposure values and estimating EV against film speed, aperture and shutter so I can plan the shots to look for given the film I've loaded. Where I'd see a potential shot with my DSLR and take a snap to evaluate on a PC later, now I look at it more critically, judging whether it's something I want to capture at all. My keeper ratio has increased simply by not pressing the shutter every time I see something vaguely interesting.

I'm on the look-out for a second OM body as I'm sold on the size, the quality of the Zuiko glass, the physical movement of the dials and winder. For me, this is photography and for the first time in a long time, I'm really looking forward to getting out there and learning more. :D
 
I'm very happy shooting digital. I get the results instant.....BUT...film is just another experience altogether. It's a love, rather than a quick result. Digital's like teenage sex, film's like good sex :) From memory, anyway ;)
I'm also a very much a fan of Zuiko OM glass.
I still reckon nothing this side of an Icelandic bank scandal cost comes close to medium format or above on film. Even when and if it ever does, film will still always have that certain 'feel' to it that pixels can never match.
 
Spot on Mike, very nice analogy. To me using digital is taking pictures using film is making pictures.

Andy
 
s162216 said:
Unfortunately it is still digital even from Ilford, pretty much everywhere works by scanning the negs/transparencies and exposing the paper using an RGB laser or LEDs.
Click to expand...

Why would you go to the trouble of shooting on film, and then get a third party to develop and print? :(
 
Unfortunately not all of us are able to develop and print our own film. Whilst developing is fairly easy as all you need is a changing bag to extract the film and load it into the tank, printing the film requires a full darkroom as the paper is light sensitive. Plus colour developing is more difficult as you have to keep the chemicals at certain temperatures or there will be colour shifts.

I will be having a go with developing my own black and white somewhen this year, but I'll likely be scanning the negs as I don't have anywhere for a darkroom for the printing (although my bathroom at my uni halls might be adaptable I don't think they would be too pleased and would probably find some stupid little rule so they can fine me for it).

Why do you assume that its trouble shooting on film? I'm 19 and shoot pretty much everything on film as I find it much more fun than shooting digital and plus the actual kit is usually much cheaper than buying a comparable digital product. Why don't you try using a film camera and shooting 36 frames without being able to look, you'll find it encourages you to concentrate on getting a good shot.
 
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The more threads I read like this, the more I contemplate digging out my old film SLR. It sits staring longingly at me from the wardrobe shelf. One of these days ill stick a battery and a roll of B&W in it :)
 
s162216 said:
Unfortunately it is still digital even from Ilford, pretty much everywhere works by scanning the negs/transparencies and exposing the paper using an RGB laser or LEDs.
I don't actually know anywhere that does just a purely optical line now except for hand enlargements that a few places do.
Click to expand...

they do real printing ( i assume thats not digital )

http://www.ilfordphoto.com/wheretobuy/page.asp?n=145
 
Good for you Phil. I too used to have the OM1 and OM2 systems. Lenses were never th e fastest but there was a real quality about them.

Last year I sort of did a half measure to what you have done. I switched from Canon back to Nikon so I could use manual focus lenses. I have bought about 10 including lenses like th e85mm f1.4 and 50mm f1.2 but my favourite is the 35mm f1.4 which on my nikon D2X is like using a 50mm on film

stew
 
donutagain said:
they do real printing ( i assume thats not digital )

http://www.ilfordphoto.com/wheretobuy/page.asp?n=145
Click to expand...

According to lford Lab they expose the paper using RGB lasers on Ilford Express Digital paper. By real black and white prints I think you'll find they mean that its on actual black and white paper and they don't cheat and use colour paper like most places do as colour paper can show colour shifts and not quite true blacks and whites in comparison to proper B&W paper.

I think that link might be a bit out of date as I can't find that page looking around Ilford's site and if you go to the 'Where to Buy' and after selecting UK, and then Ilford Lab Service then it just takes you to the main page of Ilford lab, not the page you linked to.

It says on the FAQ' anyway how they expose it:

http://www.ilfordlab.com/page/83/Film-FAQ-s.htm
 
I'm beginning to get like this too! Whenever I go out anywhere for a walk or to town I always tend to grab my film camera now - and when looking at lenses I always make sure they have an aperture ring on or else I click off straight away :)
 
s162216 said:
According to lford Lab they expose the paper using RGB lasers on Ilford Express Digital paper. By real black and white prints I think you'll find they mean that its on actual black and white paper and they don't cheat and use colour paper like most places do as colour paper can show colour shifts and not quite true blacks and whites in comparison to proper B&W paper.

I think that link might be a bit out of date as I can't find that page looking around Ilford's site and if you go to the 'Where to Buy' and after selecting UK, and then Ilford Lab Service then it just takes you to the main page of Ilford lab, not the page you linked to.

It says on the FAQ' anyway how they expose it:

http://www.ilfordlab.com/page/83/Film-FAQ-s.htm
Click to expand...

and for the real black and white they use this on rc paper

http://www.ilfordphoto.com/products/product.asp?n=42
 
spaniel said:
Why would you go to the trouble of shooting on film, and then get a third party to develop and print? :(
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If its "trouble" then you're in the wrong hobby. I would love a darkroom but unfortunately 2 kids and a small house make this unlikely.

With regards to the old film vs. digital debate, I don't think there really is a debate amongst most people. I still use my Nex-5 which I can highly recommend and which takes stunning photos. But for me the novelty of shooting RAW, spending hours on photoshop & printing myself has worn off. I now only take jpeg snapshots (hopefully well composed, interesting ones!) with the Sony, delete the ones I don't want in camera, and take the memory card down to jessops to be printed at 5p a print. Soulless, but they are cracking snapshots!

With film, for me, its about the photography. And I love it. Its like being reunited with an old friend. I only wish I'd realised sooner!
 
apollo_luddite said:
With regards to the old film vs. digital debate, I don't think there really is a debate amongst most people. I still use my Nex-5 which I can highly recommend and which takes stunning photos. But for me the novelty of shooting RAW, spending hours on photoshop & printing myself has worn off. I now only take jpeg snapshots (hopefully well composed, interesting ones!) with the Sony, delete the ones I don't want in camera, and take the memory card down to jessops to be printed at 5p a print. Soulless, but they are cracking snapshots!

With film, for me, its about the photography. And I love it. Its like being reunited with an old friend. I only wish I'd realised sooner!
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Phil, I echo all you say. Good luck to you and enjoy every moment (even the frustrating ones, as I am having at the moment).

As for digital v analogue (Yawn....) they are different experiences - simple as that (though you can't beat film for tactile sensuality)
 
I stopped shooting in raw and instead just use JPEG as I felt it was killing my love for photography as well. I got into film recently and didn't feel a need to give up digital, in fact it rekindled my love for photography and I now enjoy using digital more as well as film. I tend to use film for shooting people, as I find the magical quality of film adds so much to the photos, but I use my digital kit for more specialised stuff like urban exploration.
 
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This is such an interesting thread. I am very new to photography myself and have basically shot digital all the time.

I do remember going out and shooting film with my Dad when I was a kid though, it was always so much fun!

My wife gave me a Pentax K1000 the other day with a nifty fifty and a 200mm f2.8 which has proved fun so far. It really has made me spend more time trying to compose a shot and look for interesting subjects whilst out. I'm guilty as charged when it comes to firing off 100 / 150 shots in a day and then prunning at home. The thing I do miss with film is knowing if the shot has turned out or not. Being new to photgraphy I am still learning and find I can make ISO, shutter speed, aperture changes between shots and have an idea on camera preview as to what is changing and how. With film I have to play the waiting game which I do find a little frustrating.

Having said that my Dad used to shot with a Praktica camera, so when I saw this job lot on eBay Friday night I had to bid, and I won! Item Link (y)

Hopefully there is some more fun to be had with this lot and looking at the Praktica lenses there seem to be quite a few cheap ones available on eBay too. :)

I'd love to have my own darkroom in the loft though! :D
 
Hi Deejay,

The method I use with film has been to finish a film and stick it in a light proof box in the pantry and when I actually took a look the other day I had 27 rolls! Then I have to get developing ( I am now actually)

Can I offer a word of advice from my own experience; in the Pentax you have everything that you need for a good, long while. IMO Either you become a collector or a confused photographer. Film photography kit and digital kit are worlds apart and the mindset also. Digital is new this, new that etc. With film it's get a start and go with it. It's down to you, the film, the chosen settings,the development and the print.

Have fun.
 
@ Alistair - I think I got the Friday night eBay bug really. You know the one that starts with "wow, thats a bargain" and ends with you paying money via paypal for something that you have no need for!

27 rolls of film!? Surely that's going to take quite some time to develop?

I think you are right with the Pentax being a good camera too. My wife got it from a photography student many years ago and seems to have anything I would want, apart from maybe a zoom lens, but then I do have legs.. ;)

I am currently trying to learn more about film now and what ISO to use for what. I think the feeling of snapping a great shot and then seeing the picture for the first time after developing wuld be really great!

I currently do not have a scanner though, so I won't be posting results on here from the Pentax for a while.

Thanks again Alistair and I am certainly having fun!
 
If your not getting paid, then fun is what its all about.






Of course IF you can get both.........(y)
 
Since starting this thread I have become a little obsessed with how much money I was spending on digital SLR equipment, and how cheap the film equipment is I've been using the last couple of weeks. I thought I would see just how cheaply I could produce decent images on my PC. The results are in my album on my home page. I would be very interested to hear everyone's opinions. Please don't judge the quality of the photography too harshly, I was running a first test roll through the camera to check the meter etc! Here's a list of what this equipment and other expenses cost me:

Olympus OM20 with 50mm f1.8 lens reasonable condition £19.00 (ebay)
Kodak ColorPlus 200 film £2.00 (ebay)
Processing (develop only) £2.90
Epson 3170 flatbed scanner with film holders (from a friend) £10.00
Photofiltre image processing software (freeware download) FREE

A fraction of the cost of even one of my DSLRs.

Total time spent on the computer was about 20 minutes. I'm yet to familiarise myself with the scanner software or the Photofiltre software (like a very simplified Photoshop) so no doubt the results could be significantly improved. Obviously quality is compromised severely by the 200k limit set here.

Any comments very welcome.
 
apollo_luddite said:
Since starting this thread I have become a little obsessed with how much money I was spending on digital SLR equipment, and how cheap the film equipment is I've been using the last couple of weeks. I thought I would see just how cheaply I could produce decent images on my PC. The results are in my album on my home page. I would be very interested to hear everyone's opinions. Please don't judge the quality of the photography too harshly, I was running a first test roll through the camera to check the meter etc! Here's a list of what this equipment and other expenses cost me:

Olympus OM20 with 50mm f1.8 lens reasonable condition £19.00 (ebay)
Kodak ColorPlus 200 film £2.00 (ebay)
Processing (develop only) £2.90
Epson 3170 flatbed scanner with film holders (from a friend) £10.00
Photofiltre image processing software (freeware download) FREE

A fraction of the cost of even one of my DSLRs.

Total time spent on the computer was about 20 minutes. I'm yet to familiarise myself with the scanner software or the Photofiltre software (like a very simplified Photoshop) so no doubt the results could be significantly improved. Obviously quality is compromised severely by the 200k limit set here.

Any comments very welcome.
Click to expand...

erm that colorplus 200 film is £1 in Poundland shops....btw I'm just the messenger and not recommended it over more expensive gold or superia.
 
My first job was as a press photographer on a local newspaper. We did all our own black and white printing. I used to love the printing side, under the red safelight, watching the image slowly appear on the paper is great fun
 
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