RIP!!

Yes this has just made the fight to win over hearts and minds twice as hard now. So much hard work has gone into providinf them security and trust to keep them on our side instead of joining the taliban and now this happens
 
ooh crikey............. how awful.

Hmmm methinks johnny Taliban will be out for a bit of revenge............

Genuinely I do wonder what makes someone just "flip" like that......
 
Absolutely disgusting!! I don't agree with he had a "breakdown" I think he wasn't all there to start with. My uncle suffered from post-traumatic stress before he passed away and not once did he go out and harm people. I know it affects people differently but to go out and shoot 12 innocent people there must of been something not all there in the first place before joining the army also if he was a monitored properly this might not of happened.
 
It seems initial reports were of a group of American soldiers, not just one systematically entering 3 houses and shooting the occupants while they lay in their beds and then pouring chemicals on the bodies and burning them. Once again we will never know the true story of what happened to these men, women and children. Easier to blame it on one rogue soldier whose name we will never hear and whose justice will never come than report the real issue. Bradley Mannings name was very quick to hit the press pages and he was only guilty of reporting the truth. He is now in a federal prison serving life for blowing the whistle on what really happens "on the ground". Sadly, this is what we as the Western World have allowed it to become, de-humanising a complete race of people purely for greed and wealth.

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article30779.htm#idc-cover
 
nick.baker said:
Absolutely disgusting!! I don't agree with he had a "breakdown" I think he wasn't all there to start with. My uncle suffered from post-traumatic stress before he passed away and not once did he go out and harm people. I know it affects people differently but to go out and shoot 12 innocent people there must of been something not all there in the first place before joining the army also if he was a monitored properly this might not of happened.
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Firstly I'll say RIP to those innocent families. A terrible situation.

But With respect, how do you "not agree he had a breakdown"? Do you know him that well, and I take it the 3G signal is good in that little Afgan village as you must have been present to say that?
 
odd jim said:
Firstly I'll say RIP to those innocent families. A terrible situation.

But With respect, how do you "not agree he had a breakdown"? Do you know him that well, and I take it the 3G signal is good in that little Afgan village as you must have been present to say that?
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Apparently the Mail Online must have been present then? ..... It's their headline :shrug:
 
Splog said:
Apparently the Mail Online must have been present then? ..... It's their headline :shrug:
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What is?

That they **don't** agree he suffered a breakdown?

Not sure what your getting at?
 
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gumbo, Splog - theyre reporting he DID have a breakdown.

I'm asking why nick.baker disagrees with that, so I'm assuming he knew the soldier and was present at the time.

Come on guys, read it properly.
 
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odd jim said:
gumbo, Splog - theyre reporting he DID have a breakdown.

I'm asking why nick.baker disagrees with that, so I'm assuming he knew the soldier and was present at the time.

Come on guys, read it properly.
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Point is.... They (Mail) don't know what caused him to do it either!
 
Jim my .... was because i am gonna get slammed no matter what i say..

he got out of camp with a weapon on his own???? excuse me???? like the bell ends that burnt the Koran.. sorry i know nothing must remember that.. they just put back every thing..
 
Splog said:
Point is.... They (Mail) don't know what caused him to do it either!
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They do have a network of people on the ground out there so will be in a better situation to comment and source info than someone sat on the internet who's never set foot on Afgan soil.
 
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gumbo-67 said:
Jim my .... was because i am gonna get slammed no matter what i say..

he got out of camp with a weapon on his own???? excuse me???? like the bell ends that burnt the Koran.. sorry i know nothing must remember that.. they just put back every thing..
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Eh, you're not even making sense. FWIW they don't leave camp WITHOUT a weapon. If you know the geography of where they are you'd understand that. (and I saw your "yep" comment before you read it properly and deleted it!).

(...Last bit edited, calm restored)
 
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odd jim said:
They do have a network of people on the ground out there so will be in a better situation to comment and source info than someone sat on the internet who's never set foot of Afgan soil.
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Perhaps, but.... I'm fairly certain that they wouldn't be qualified to judge the mental state of this guy at the time he committed this crime?
 
Splog said:
Perhaps, but.... I'm fairly certain that they wouldn't be qualified to judge the mental state of this guy at the time he committed this crime?
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I doubt they judged it themselves, I expect it came from a military source. But why don't we all just reserve judgement until its officially known? But lets face it, it wasn't a normal thing to do.
 
sorry you are correct!! so tell me how he got to where he was on is own with a weapon to do this?

oh and i have not been there and know nothing

sorry if i sound a bit sore..
 
gumbo-67 said:
sorry you are correct!! so tell me how he got to where he was on is own with a weapon to do this?

oh and i have not been there and know nothing

sorry if i sound a bit sore..
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Correct about what? I don't even know what your last post was about? And when did I say I was present??
 
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odd jim said:
I doubt they judged it themselves, I expect it came from a military source. But why don't we all just reserve judgement until its officially known? But lets face it, it wasn't a normal thing to do.
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I agree completely! It certainly wasn't a normal thing to do....Is anything to do with war normal? I don't think so.

There's good and bad on all sides.
 
Splog said:
I agree completely! It certainly wasn't a normal thing to do....Is anything to do with war normal? I don't think so.

There's good and bad on all sides.
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No, there's definitely nothing normal about war, far from it. Just senseless act after senseless act. Hense, why such an environment can (and does) break a man.
 
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ChrisH said:
Mmmm some poor lass called Terri's husband comes to mind, and I wonder where he is now.

Terri xx you cant win hun.
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Huh? :shrug:
 
Chris Thank you! i don't need to win just wish people would understand.. it's not for me.
 
gumbo-67 said:
Chris Thank you! i don't need to win just wish people would understand.. it's not for me.
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I know good soldiers and UN police officers who had breakdowns after their experiences in Afgan and Iraq (the sgt in question had done 3 tours in iraq before he did this tour of Afgan) so I'm not too surprised to see tragedies like this.

One of them whom I got to know well committed suicide while back in the UK which is why I get passionate about it.
 
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but i have just done what i didn't like in my thread so if you would like to carry this on can we do it via Pm.

Respect and thoughts to the victims families..
 
I don't know the soldier and am not saying he didn't finally crack but to go and shoot innocent people like I said he must of been ILL for some time before this incident to decide to go and do he did. I have been around people all my life that suffer from post traumatic stress due to combat and that is how I know he didn't just have a "breakdown" due to being in combat.!
 
gumbo-67 said:
but i have just done what i didn't like in my thread so if you would like to carry this on can we do it via Pm.

Respect and thoughts to the victims families..
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Me too!
 
nick.baker said:
I don't know the soldier and am not saying he didn't finally crack but to go and shoot innocent people like I said he must of been ILL for some time before this incident to decide to go and do he did. I have been around people all my life that suffer from post traumatic stress due to combat and that is how I know he didn't just have a "breakdown" due to being in combat.!
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If you knew his background you'll know he's done over 4 active combat tours, which is more than a lot of soldiers do in a lifetime. You're probably right, it did build over time (if it was a breakdown). But do you not think 10 - 20 years of active combat can cause a man to have a breakdown?
 
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odd jim said:
If you knew his background you'll know he's done over 4 active combat tours, which is more than a lot of soldiers do in a lifetime. You're probably right, it did build over time (if it was a breakdown).
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I understand what you are saying but where I am coming from is when you do tours before you start another one you are checked mentally and physically before setting foot on the soil again. What I'm trying to say is like dr.shipmen (think that was his name) didn't decide to kill people until he was how old and disk serve in the army but because this person was in the army people think it's due to stress on tours. That is why I believe he wasn't that sane to start with.
 
I'm signing off this one.

RIP and I hope there are no repercussions from this one, that would make it all the more tragic and senseless.
 
nick.baker said:
Absolutely disgusting!! I don't agree with he had a "breakdown" I think he wasn't all there to start with. My uncle suffered from post-traumatic stress before he passed away and not once did he go out and harm people. I know it affects people differently but to go out and shoot 12 innocent people there must of been something not all there in the first place before joining the army also if he was a monitored properly this might not of happened.
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Where did you study to get your military psychology degree? Because just by logging onto the internet and reading a news report without having any military personnel records, medical records or even knowing anything about that person, you seem to have come to a very professional diagnosis, I'm surprised you haven't been headhunted by the ministry of defence.

I am sorry, I don't mean to sound disrespectful and i'm also sorry to hear about your uncle i can't imagine the torment and upset he had to live with, as post dramatic stress from military service is a terrible thing to suffer with, however as you rightly said everyone reacts differently

There is still an investigation going underway and the soldier in question handed himself in alive for questioning. Only he knows why he did that, and it really could be as simple as having his best friend killed in front of him and red mist took over, because some people really can just snap like that, with no prior history of a mental build up. but we don't know, anything on at this point is only speculation and we will only know what really happend after he is questioned and examined by a psychiatrist.
 
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archamedes said:
Where did you study to get your military psychology degree? Because just by logging onto the internet and reading a news report without having any military personnel records, medical records or even knowing anything about that person, you seem to have come to a very professional diagnosis, I'm surprised you haven't been headhunted by the ministry of defence.

I am sorry, I don't mean to sound disrespectful and i'm also sorry to hear about your uncle i can't imagine the torment and upset he had to live with, as post dramatic stress from military service is a terrible thing to suffer with, however as you rightly said everyone reacts differently

There is still an investigation going underway and the soldier in question handed himself in alive for questioning. Only he knows why he did that, and it really could be as simple as having his best friend killed in front of him and red mist took over, because some people really can just snap like that, with no prior history of a mental build up. but we don't know, anything on at this point is only speculation and we will only know what really happend after he is questioned and examined by a psychiatrist.
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I wasn't saying I have a military degree or anything of the sort, I was just saying I've been around 100 of soldiers that suffer with it and haven't seen one of them react the way he did. I am friends with a soldier that just 2 weeks into his deployment got his leg blown off in northern island and possibly having to have his other leg amputated in the future and not once has he got a weapon and flown over there to kill innocent people. I'm not looking for an argument or debate I was purely putting my view across on the situation. I have family and friends over I'm afghan at the moment and currently joining the military to hopefully go over there myself, I just feel sorry for all the soldiers that have spent the last 11 years over there and 1 soldier ruining what they have tried to correct for that period.
 
neil_g said:
:shrug:

well the locals arent exactly going to be welcoming US (and UK etc) troops with open arms after this, at least for a while. its going to dent confidence in "us" for sure.
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Neil,

The irony of that comment would be hilarious if it wasn't so tragic.

11.864 civilians have been killed due to the conflict to date. I think the hearts and minds is a dead rubber.
 
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