Roe

[Stuart Philpott]

Guys is anyone at all actively chasing the roe rut here? I love this species i've been after them a while . they are tough and run rings around me.

I've been posting here a few years now and each and every Autumn all these cracking images turn up of the larger species here in the rut. why are roe so absent? In some ways I can answer my own Q. Maybe half a dozen years of blanks I've seen one actual fight in all that time ,it's not an easy gig finding an image of the roe rut. Is that what it is .......simply too hard to fiind? Are they not as inspiring as the larger deer in the autumn ?

Roe aren't available to all of us sure but they are a wide ranging species in the UK, living alongside or near to many of us One might think a true native deer with an incredibly impressive dramatic breeding ritual would be more highly prized by us wildlife image makers, in the UK But that doesn't seem to be the case.

As above i'm passionate about the little sods, I guess I'm trying to work out why more of you don't feel the same way ?

many thanks for reading i'd love to hear your thoughts

take care

stu

 

[FromTarn]

A mate of mine got some great shots of two bucks scrapping it out in a dry pond, he came away with some great shots, myself Stu I'd like to witness this but as you say its usually the bigger deer that most seem to go for. I think I can share your passion for Roe Stu but as you have pointed out not all have the same line of thinking.

 

[Stuart Philpott]

Martin thanks, I'm very interested in the why's Martin why folks don't think like me you us....... Deer rutting is spectacular, so it attracts folks in the autumn whom would like an image,but the summer roe rut seems almost overlooked ?

I #ve mused many reasons for this absense ,from them simply being small ( unimpressive) to them not being a herd animal found in a park, to folks not interested in chasing deer in the summer, to difficulty.

We don't have that many bigger wild things left Martin one would think most of us would want to see all this especially a native that can oft be found locally.

Grats to your mate I have a few frames buddy but I'm not enamoured with them, it's fantastic to watch though!!

 

[Stuart Philpott]

Ok I'm what 80 views in and one reply who is also interested in roe and especially the rut, so i've around 70 folks who for what ever reason are not interested in making images of this cracking little native deer. I was really hoping to find out why but I suppose I won't it's seems illogical for folks to take time out to explain write about why they run off to a Park or Moor or Highland in the Autumn but don't feel the same need with Roe. ? I know they are smaller but their scraps are something ,the sheer power is amazing

I was hoping to learn something from the replies....................... I titled this roe rather than the roe rut because I was hoping for anything really turning up to do with the species, All encompassing but I guess that won't happen so I'm going to waffle abit about them for the mo, in the hope it might just get some one else interested in this remarkable native deer......... they are utter screw balls for the main part completely scatty and very very scared of us. Well that's the one's I know, one of our members very honestly shared he knew of some who were quite tolerant of humans bless ya Si, i've never seen this. But despite the way they are hard wired, so highly strung they are intensely curious animals there is somethiing we image makers can work with,

They are remarkable...............Capreolus capreolus is the only ruminant that delays implantation of the embyo. This means that the kids, they are "correctly" called kids, not fawns, can be born as the Northern hemisphere warms, late spring april june time...... They rut...mate..at almost the same time, and also molt around this time of year. Their winter coat is a greyish colour it's really thick and fundamentally changes their appearance looking much more thick set, Summer coat is a sort of burnt orange and they largely become much more svelt and streamlined. Naturally they need antlers for the rut so you'll see the bucks in velvet while other deer here uk shed. I am not read,up on them this isn't from science or google these are my experiences with them midlands based trying to find a way in to make images. So anything that is incorrect please shout , I know what I see ,but I don't always get the right conclusions

I love these little things.................. Roe have featured as a subject since the day I got me first digi camera I have no idea how long I've been trying to figure them it's a ruddy long time:banghead: .

There def a madness there

 

[Dale.]

I can't say I'm chasing the rut, although if I stumble on it, I will photograph it. We have a few here though, even been seen in the street on occasion, mainly doe but we do get the odd buck jumping the fences.

A lot more on the nearby estate.

 

[troutfisher]

I suspect that one of the difficulties is that Roe unlike Red, Sika and Fallow cannot be "domesticated" , if that's the right word in that they are not park deer.
While its relatively easy ( if you have patience and fieldcraft ) to photograph rutting park deer in semi wild surroundings its not possible with roe unless you have access to areas they inhabit.
Its a bit like stalking , reds are fairly straightforward roe are anything but.

 

[Lepus]

Hi Stu , I think I explained to you , I don`t to my knowledge have any Roe local to me . I been out on local patches for some years now and never seen one locally . One Deer Stalker I chatted with on the subject , reckoned it was because there were to many Muntjac , that are apparently a little aggressive , though with the size difference I find this hard to believe they would scare off the Roe . But it is a mystery as to why we don`t get those or Red Deer for that matter . I think you were very lucky to get those Rut photos , I would treasure them if were me . As it is , the only Roe I see are on holidays .

 

[Stuart Philpott]

Dale can't they jump !! wow can't they jump!! I think most would make the frames given a chance and probably be in a simiilar state of awe as I am. Maybe in part because it's almost unknown folks don't have the despire to try.

Mark hey mate hell of a week forgive me not getting back shouldn't be here now really. I didn't realize you had few) if any) roe locally. I have muntjec and roe side by side, I'd say both were expanding in numbers , this doesn't disspell your mate's theory tis just an observation I've also fallow living locally wild again see the three species together. It's really hard pinning down why which species are located where they are Especially roe fallow whom have been here so long ,I dunno ? I guess what i'm saying is even though the habitat seems right for some reason roe don't live there in some areas. I am aware of their somewhat patchy distribution mate . Hmm I'll treasure the experience Mark I want more though, I wish I could really dig in right now.

Chris I think that's part of it, ie how scatty roe are means they simply don't feature as parkland deer. I find using words like wild a bit dogey with photographers Chris , they seem to have a diffrerent meaning to the word and there's sort of a status is conferred by said word wild. i see levels of humanization and prefer to muse things in that way I love seeing all the autumn image mate I'm quite fascinated by how deer stalkers effect a herd. I honestly believe that roe being so scared of us humans means they won't ever attack me or anyone for that matter. Once aware I'm human they always leave. My fun comes when they know I'm there but not what I am. and one can tap into the curiosity aspect of them I've only a hand ful of images where I think roe agression is being displayed never seen it directed at me

Chris I concur ideally one really needs access, I did remarkable well over walls from the side of a road at the tail end of last lockdown but it's not the same as having access!!

Lads I must go thanks so much for the replies, I want to try make a hole today to go and see them

take care

 

[FromTarn]

In some the areas I frequent for Roe, they seem to like reed beds, likely for the richness of food and cover to blend into, I think we all know their bark like alarm call but also they have a curious nature towards us, this lends to getting a few images before they disappear.
Maybe we could keep this Roe Deer thread going as to share Roe based info and images of course

 

[Lepus]

I visited a zoo in the new forest many years ago , that did have enclosed Roe Deer , though I don`t recall any Bucks there . They were friendly you could buy food for them , and one or two would happily investigate your pockets for food . These were all the result of RTA`s or Fawns being brought in which were then hand reared so likely not have survived on their own . But generally as mentioned I don`t think they do well in parks .
I chatted with another Deer Stalker once , he told me that on his Uncles land there was a Roe Buck that had charged at his Uncle more than once , which was eventually despatched . I only have his words on that experience , and I didn`t know him well enough to judge , but he seemed genuine enough . I would keep in mind that any Deer could cause very serious injury , as doubtful as that happening is .

 

[Stuart Philpott]

Martin Mark sorry slow lads I didn't get out just grafted on the bus it's really hard doing that right now, i really want to be out alot right now

Martin I would LOVE this thread to become a knowledge base, a shared knowledge base with shared images. That might help get more folks interested in trying to make images of them, I'd bloody love that !! But I'd need help as I don't know enough!! post piccies tell me anything you know buddy I'm an open book. ,,that's for all mate...but at the mo your the only other one having a bash at them and posting as always all are welcome...........................I know nothin of the reed beds Martin simply don't have that much of that habitat on my patch cheers for sharing. .

I'm working edges of small woods and some real thick broad hedges , that's the base habitat.



Mark.
I think I owe ya an email sorry mate, had me head down ya good kiddo? .....

Roe can be hand reared and returned, but they are so highly strung,someone spent some serious time on those zoo deer, ha and probably a keeper with huge skill. Could that inter play with your. shall we call him "Rogue" buck. ? I wonder if someone reared him Mark? I've never seen any thing other than utter fear. But don't doubt the tale

I believe right or wrong that fear is my safety net,

Buddy it's my life you rarely get a VERY serious me , but I am being here !! I do not want to be on the wrong side of this animal I know exactly what it's capable of no thanks !! But and it's a big one .... . where do we draw the lines

Mark how can one legislate do a risk assessment on being on foot in the field. ?

Being accidentally run over by a deer especially roe is much more likely, than an attack

There has to be a risk Mark I try to assess but it's always the freak incident that catches us.

Take care both

oh PS
not being serious
First rule always go with someone who can't run as fast as you can

 

[FromTarn]

Here are the pair together just to give you folks who don't see Roe Deer in your area, only the males have antlers as can be seen here.

 

[Lepus]

I don`t want to sound like a know it all or anything , but Deer can show signs of aggression as a warning , scraping and stomping the ground with their feet , constantly bowing the head and snorting I believe is another sign . 99.9 % of the time I am sure most of us know they would rather scarper than conflict with us , but it`s not unheard of . I would say it`s likely more common in parks where people think they are tame like pets and don`t respect them . As you say , getting stomped on or kicked by a Deer would also be very painful . It certainly does not need blowing out of proportion , the chances of you getting attacked are very very slim , unless you are stupid of course and don`t give that respect that they deserve .

 

[Deleted member 34016]

I see Roe deer almost every time I go out- there is a very healthy population on the Someret levels - I tend to give them space at this time of year

Here's one who had definitley seen me

Les

 

[Lepus]

I envy all of you having Roe on your patch . Nice photos popping up here .

 

[Stuart Philpott]

I don`t want to sound like a know it all or anything , but Deer can show signs of aggression as a warning , scraping and stomping the ground with their feet , constantly bowing the head and snorting I believe is another sign . 99.9 % of the time I am sure most of us know they would rather scarper than conflict with us , but it`s not unheard of . I would say it`s likely more common in parks where people think they are tame like pets and don`t respect them . As you say , getting stomped on or kicked by a Deer would also be very painful . It certainly does not need blowing out of proportion , the chances of you getting attacked are very very slim , unless you are stupid of course and don`t give that respect that they deserve .

Ha buddy you don't sound like a know it all, and I don't think we are blowing risk out of proportion . I don't think i've ever talked to anyone on a forum about deer aggression and it's implications to us as image makers. I'm very grateful to you Mark for sharing. I'd love this passion we share ( deer ) to spread to other members . if a newer guy is aware of behavious of the deer then that helps keep them safer.

Would folks be able to recognise roe aggresion? Any and every pointer we can share with each other is incredibly cool

Mark I don't think I'm reckless, but I know I make images at distances where an animal has the potential to harm me. , I risk assess by looking really hard and trying to work out what every nuance of my subject's behaviour means. But I'm very fallible, and a slow learner Their ears just like hares give us huge clues to how they feel . Well that's what I see . lol no science

When roe are really aggressive their ears are sort of pinned back it's not the same as Dale's frit............. or Les and Martin's curious.

Behaviour knowledge is a huge asset for us

Cheers for sharing Les, is fella standing or lying down ? damned if I can work it out:banghead:

 

[Deleted member 34016]

He's standing Stu and I was sat in my truck.

 

[FromTarn]

I took this image back in May but I've held off posting it as I've been trying to get some photos of them both in the open and on dry land but once I'd had another look they didn't turn out too bad

 

[Son_of_Thor]

Sorry Stu, I spotted this thread a while back and then completely forgot about it in all honesty.. we do have Roe locally, mostly at nature reserves although I have seen then pretty close to home too. I've only ever seen what must be family groups and never seen the Buck's facing off against each other. A lot of the local reserves have large fenced off areas for the wildlife (and understandably so given the lack of respect shown by a lot of members of the general public). I hadn't particularly identified the Bucks I've seen as of rutting age if you will - assumed the older ones antlers were bigger/more impressive as with the bigger Deer. Live and learn from the looks of things. I'll keep more of an eye out for potential argy-bargy in future. Still, they're always a pleasure to see.. I'd love to see the little 'un's too, not something I've ever seen

This is the view I usually get, a backside running away

Think I've been spotted (Roe Deer) by Simon Lundbeck, on Flickr

 

[Stuart Philpott]

Lads, thanks for chiming in and the images too..........

Les I'm always so slow in reply sorry bro, thanks for clearing that up for me They are tricky to get close to lying down ruminating ,they do it alot but finding and piccies is a rare chance for me

. I'm so glad you mentioned the truck, I haven't a 4be4 so can't off road that much but "drive by" as I call it is a really great tactic for nabbing an image of roe . I don't really like the experience as much as scrubbling about in the mud getting sodden wet and sneaking up to the buggers. But using a car van whatever as a hide is seriously effective as your image demonstrates. I've only a handful of frames I really like from me bus, but not everyone has access to lovely little places where there aren't many humans and there are roe.


Guys I drive around me local countryside little quiet places very slow, very slow. I wave all past......... pull over, get out the way of all and have a good pair of eyes on passenger seat....seriously good eyes. This is how I find them and know of them in many many locations around me, Sure We have a really good local population, but a buuggy in so many forms is a great tool to find and make piccies.

View attachment 322910I took this image back in May but I've held off posting it as I've been trying to get some photos of them both in the open and on dry land but once I'd had another look they didn't turn out too bad

I love this bro. in part because I simply have no knowledge of them in this habitat and of course the little one is severe icing on the cake. .

Kid looks utterly p***ed off with it's mum

 

[Stuart Philpott]

Sorry Stu, I spotted this thread a while back and then completely forgot about it in all honesty.. we do have Roe locally, mostly at nature reserves although I have seen then pretty close to home too. I've only ever seen what must be family groups and never seen the Buck's facing off against each other. A lot of the local reserves have large fenced off areas for the wildlife (and understandably so given the lack of respect shown by a lot of members of the general public). I hadn't particularly identified the Bucks I've seen as of rutting age if you will - assumed the older ones antlers were bigger/more impressive as with the bigger Deer. Live and learn from the looks of things. I'll keep more of an eye out for potential argy-bargy in future. Still, they're always a pleasure to see.. I'd love to see the little 'un's too, not something I've ever seen

This is the view I usually get, a backside running away

Think I've been spotted (Roe Deer) by Simon Lundbeck, on Flickr

Hiya Si, sorry didn't get to you last night bro . Ha don't worry mate I'm easily forgotten ,truth be told I'm quite happy with that Cheers for sharing the image

I've somehow got to get you and Dale away from the bum shots, mate although to be fair it happens to us all I'd love one coming towards me full tilt Si ,but that's a rare chance right there !!

Si bless you for your honesty mate , I've never really had any experiences of relatiively calm roe like you have found at the nature reserve you told me about, I do wonder whether a buck more used to humans than what I deal with might be a tad more dangerous, I just don't know. As I might have mentioned I have seen roe agression once before, that was my only moment of concern ,but the buck was not bothered by me it was the lad who jumped the fence beside me that had set him off

ahh mate the kids are to die for. you'll absolutely love them when that day comes.. I've found image chances of the kids really tricky to aquire, even when I have pinned down a doe and know they are there,mind the cover is so high this time of year,. I do hope you get some luck though they are a real joy !!

Si as mentioned above what i'm writing here isn't from a book it's all based on stuff learnt in the field I think to get an actual scrap one has to find two bucks that are REALLY evenly matched, or things just revert to a chase . A couple of weeks before I saw my first fight I saw what I thought was going to end up as a fight but simply it never happened. a chase did. What I did see though was the two bucks circling each other. Previously I've found circles around bushes where their feet have left me tracks,so I know it was caused by roe 100% but not the hows or whys of what behaviours were causiing me" roe rings"..... I now think it's a precursor to a fight where they are eyeing up their opponent , but I can't confirm i've drawn the right conclusions.


No ,Roe don't develop big racks I think the selective culling by deer stalkers over generations can have a huge effect on what those racks antlers look like though, very similar to the effects we see with the larger deer in parks etc

Thanks loads for joining in mate, I love them and feel there is much for us as brit wildlife image makers to be learnt from trying to tackle roe We don't really have that many larger mammals left sadly, so getting to grips with them as a large scatty native wild herbivore is hopefully an asset with our fieldcraft that one can then move forwards with Si there is a way where they don't run away they come to you, the encounters are usually brie ( not always a work in progress) and usually end with similar to your and Dale's image. But that bit before it is sommit else....... that's what I want others to experience that's why ya got all this cobblers

take care
stu

 

[Stuart Philpott]

I guess it might be nice to show a few frames of my own, ii'll start with a few you might have seen before and gradually add as time allows. I've not been out for weeks now ,which has been so hard so I've missed out on a huge chance at broadening my roe portfolio but hey ho onwards and downwards :banghead:

_S2I7992 by Stuart Philpott, on Flickr

_S2I3619 roe stance smj by Stuart Philpott, on Flickr

_S2I2881 sm j Mr Pickles by Stuart Philpott, on Flickr

_S2I2803 sm J by Stuart Philpott, on Flickr

 

[Stuart Philpott]

and a few more

Dude monarch of the sm j by Stuart Philpott, on Flickr

_S2I2076 sm j curious doe by Stuart Philpott, on Flickr

_S2I0334 sept roe kid smj by Stuart Philpott, on Flickr

_70F8239Reobuck portait sm by Stuart Philpott, on Flickr

There's a little starter... cheers

stu

 

[Lepus]

Memorable pics of your Roe Stu , somehow I don`t remember the kid though , maybe I missed it . What you forget to tell folk is your not a big fan of cropping so a lot of these I am guessing are near , if not full frame ? Some lovely light on that last chap too .

 

[Stuart Philpott]

Hiya Mark , ha i'm up to me eyeballs in camper woodwork so have little time to check , but yes I think they are all full frame ,ie no crop 560mm ( probably maybe the kid is at 800), I really do make a good few images of them Mark so it would take me a good while to check that.............. my humble apologies if I'm wrong.

Little kidlet was around August 2019 'erm I think, I remember him clearly but am unsure on date. I'd set up in our low chairs for a leveret I knew to be haunting that area and this little ruffian turned up alone. I suspect mum and twin were very close by, I knew they were about aswell. . He was pretty chilled I was scrubbling about in the mud in front of him no cover what so ever as it was a rape stubble that had been cut and harrowed. Got a good few more images of him, it was fabulous, He was quite big not the little tacker I've wanted for so long, mind I have the odd one, that is younger I remember it also because I shot in AV as I'd been urged to do,and didn't get on terribly well,EXP wise went back to manual after this if memory serves.

I have always felt I've wasted pixels if I'm cropping much, it's something Andy ..."the weasel" ( superb wildlife tog) said to me here years back, and it stuck like glue. i'm not adverse to cropping buddy but always feet that I should strive to make the frame in camera, or very simply and bluntly the image can't be the best it could be. i'm not judgemental of others or precious about it mate ................it's just me being a lunatic again,

 

[Dale.]

Lovely pics Stu, very well done sir.

 

[FromTarn]

Nice set of shots there Stu, you have even got them facing same way One here from t'other week

 

[Stuart Philpott]

Lovely pics Stu, very well done sir.

Thanks Dale They are a bit tip of the iceberg, bro I hoped to add more by now , but life's a train ride huh. Mate i'm hoping you catch up to yours fairly soon if you get some luck do add them in please. I'd love this to be a communal thread as i mentioned earlier.


Ha Martin I didn't even spot they are all facing the same way ...what a fluke huh I never flip an image mate but I've heard of folks that do,pure chance in the above though and thankfully your's is facing the right way

Martin an observation, I think they lick their nose to make it wet and somehow improve their ability to smell? That might be utter cobblers it might have another meaning but I see it really often when a roe is closing on me or me it

Cheers for sharing buddy keep 'em coming

 

[Dale.]

if you get some luck do add them in please. I'd love this to be a communal thread as i mentioned earlier.

Not exactly what I set out for, it was quite dark and silly slow shutter speeds but yep, one night last week, I was ready.


Hoping to have another go at some point this week.

 

[Stuart Philpott]

Thank you buddy god I love 'em in that red coat and in a stream or is it " burn" that's wonderful

Now all ya gotta do is get kingy to land on an antler, ha me and choice perches that would kinda do it I think Dale................ completely unbeatable

I often wonder if folks here think I'm completely bonkers Dale, I'm good with it but yeah I do wonder................ I think the above will sort of seal that mate

Ahh well it would be one hell of an image, I don't ask much of ya Dale do I?

thank you it's lovely I know not quite what you want but it's still lovely

 

[Dale.]

Thank you buddy god I love 'em in that red coat and in a stream or is it " burn" that's wonderful

Now all ya gotta do is get kingy to land on an antler, ha me and choice perches that would kinda do it I think Dale................ completely unbeatable

I often wonder if folks here think I'm completely bonkers Dale, I'm good with it but yeah I do wonder................ I think the above will sort of seal that mate

Ahh well it would be one hell of an image, I don't ask much of ya Dale do I?

thank you it's lovely I know not quite what you want but it's still lovely

I'm working on the perched antler, kingfisher shot.

To be fair, it's not beyond the realms of possiblitly, this isn't far at all from the nest site.

Streams, brooks, burns, all the same but up here, they call them burns.

He's in the river here, I've been crossing it there for a while now and so have the roe, it's been just a few inches deep. I doubt it's crossable now for man or beast after the heavy rains over the weeknd.

 

[Stuart Philpott]

I know they land on some funny perches Dale have fishermen mates who tell me of them landing on a rod tip, so it isn't inconceivable would be a hell of and image though.

I think it's good for togs to dream about the impossible image Dale it can them become possible maybe with a hell of alot of graft, . But you need to somehow have it in your head


We basically all make the same stuff, IE how oft do any of us make something really unique. All this is about our own personal journey sure and that is a magical thing in it's self I sort of see it like a musician , ok I'm not one of those I just hit stuff (drummer). But you have to be able to sing it even if it's only in your head before you can play it and when one get's in the right place it's almost like the instrument plays you

That's where I'd like to go as an image maker mate I'm light years from all that but the yearning is there

when does a stream become a river?