Royal Mail/Cameras/Lithium Batteries.

[Hugh Jarse]

I wonder if they have got so many complaints that they have altered the policy

The 'policy' comes from an international requirement instituted after a series of concerns from in-flight fires on aircraft caused by Lithium batteries.. Indeed the current missing Malaysian Air 777 has elicited a few comments in the press of dire caused by Lithium batteries as a possible cause. Whether we like it or not, there is an international concern over the transport of poor quality and badly packed batteries. It is not just camera and phone batteries but larger industrial size/power units.

ALL courier firms have to abide the same regulations not just RM. A search of their websites elicits the same guidelines.

My company supports various charitable event and expeditions by supplying loan cameras etc for student groups so we often send kit via RM etc. When the regs came out there was a lot of misunderstanding with counter clerks re Li-ion batteries being transported.

These days we have no problem as staff at both ends are trained. We have no problems with our Post Office in getting clarity over sending items via air mail.

I think 7Dayshop have not sorted their Li-ion ißues. Their batteries can only go via their most expensive courier option. Their RM service is not available for batteries. That said, the knnock off Chinese suppliers jus chuck them in a padded envelope.......

Could be the whole thing is, for some, a nuisance but it was considered a big enough issue/risk to set new international regulations

Steve

 

[amtaylor]

But its ridiculous if the only ones being punished are the average people who pack their equipment up really carefully and yet the cheapo companies just throw them in any old way and get away with it. What a stupid regulation. Doesn't stop any risks but makes life harder for those doing it right. Kind of like making alcohol more expensive, only punishes sensible individuals

 

[Hugh Jarse]

But its ridiculous if the only ones being punished are the average people who pack their equipment up really carefully and yet the cheapo companies just throw them in any old way and get away with it. What a stupid regulation. Doesn't stop any risks but makes life harder for those doing it right. Kind of like making alcohol more expensive, only punishes sensible individuals

Irrespective of that it's now a fact of life and for us we will find it will eventually seed through the forced compliance the regulations will achieve. Perhaps the recent loss of the Malaysian flight may lead to Chinese authorities cracking down on the irresponsible sale/distribution of Li-ion products.

It may also fore the research for a safer power source but there are limits so it's a wait and see I guess.

Certainly the regulations apply to all postal and courier companies using air freight transport methods.

Frustrating it may be but it's here to stay.

Steve

 

[Steve Smith]

But its ridiculous if the only ones being punished are the average people who pack their equipment up really carefully and yet the cheapo companies just throw them in any old way and get away with it

The regulation is the same for everyone. It's a matter of personal ethics to adhere to the rules or not.


Steve.

 

[chadders]

This is all to do with sending "prohibited" materials by air. Since Royal Mail now make the assumption that anything might be sent by air those goods are now prohibited. RM say the rules aren't new but are now being implemented more rigorously.
I have a passing interest in scale model aircraft and this has caused lots of bother. Small tins of Humbrol paint can be banned, glue, etc etc. That business is predominately mail order based, so this has caused problems. Reports of shops having their parcels ripped open and "offending" goods removed. These reports may be an exaggeration, but many of the retailers are now resorting to other carriers e.g Hermes.

 

[amtaylor]

The regulation is the same for everyone. It's a matter of personal ethics to adhere to the rules or not.


Steve.

My point is that it doesn't make anything safer unless it is across the board. As people will just buy the batteries they would have bought from someone else from a company that will just send them through royal mail. So in the end it just punishes the people who would have packaged their items safely in the first place and whatever danger still remains exactly the same

 

[Hugh Jarse]

This is all to do with sending "prohibited" materials by air. Since Royal Mail now make the assumption that anything might be sent by air those goods are now prohibited. RM say the rules aren't new but are now being implemented more rigorously.
I have a passing interest in scale model aircraft and this has caused lots of bother. Small tins of Humbrol paint can be banned, glue, etc etc. That business is predominately mail order based, so this has caused problems. Reports of shops having their parcels ripped open and "offending" goods removed. These reports may be an exaggeration, but many of the retailers are now resorting to other carriers e.g Hermes.

Its an air transport issue and so IF RM are shifting more internally by air then, as you say, they are widening the remit to all 'prohibited' goods.

Hermes do a good job for me and, at their prices, are covering their remit and business model through ground transport. The addition of Li-ion to the list and in an unwavering manner is not an RM issue per se BUT they cannot know for sure how and which parcels will transit via aircraft.

Horrible mess but as RM is now a limited company and facing stiffer competition as their protected status unravels. It will depend on what the other courier/mail companies do to raise their game and what the new non public sector management of RM decide their business model is. DSLR type batteries are small beer compared to say mobile phone delivery.

It's a very messy situation which will level at some point. Li-ion products are an issue given the fact that damaged battery casings where the core gels get exposed can and do cause fires. At 40,000 feet this can be a critical matter, especially when spare cargo capacity is sold to parcel/courier transit bundlers on passenger carrying flights. Yes there are cargo planes but whilst they carry just the crew they can crash on to residential and business areas.

As an example, some years back a Korean Cargo 747 crashed just after take off from Stanstead Airport and crashed onto Hatfield Heath killing the crew.

It burned rapidly and was totally destroyed. It's cargo was (IIRC) Sctch Whiskey and Inkjet ink. Highly flammable. The crash occurred due to instrument mid calibration.

Point is - in some situations there are no ways to predict events but more evidence points to shoddy Li-ion products are seen as high risk items and whether we like it or not the riles are here to say and yes the knock off merchants need to be dragged into the rules.

Steve

Steve

 

[chuckles]

Hmmm... I have 4 Nikon batteries which (between them) have made no more 14,000 actuations, a couple videos and no more than 18 months old. Two of them have become "Life Expired" - something unheard of in the world of NIkon. I enquired of Nikon as to what's happening - they said it's new to them (actually, there are dozens of cases on forums). Anyway, they told me to send them in and they'll have a look ... now I'm in a quandry!

 

[andy1868]

i sent out a camera on the weekend, the look i got when i said i wanted to insure it up to £1000 was priceless. I imagine the look would have been something similar if i had told him i was sending weapons grade plutonium

No mention of battery issues, i even told him it was a camera I'm sure i remember reading about it when the legislation came out and thinking it wasn't actually an issue. Something along the lines of if the battery is in the camera it's fine or vice versa :/

 

[simonblue]

i sent out a camera on the weekend, the look i got when i said i wanted to insure it up to £1000 was priceless. I imagine the look would have been something similar if i had told him i was sending weapons grade plutonium

No mention of battery issues, i even told him it was a camera I'm sure i remember reading about it when the legislation came out and thinking it wasn't actually an issue. Something along the lines of if the battery is in the camera it's fine or vice versa :/

Yep i was told it was fine as long as was in the camera,when i last sent a camera out also an spare in the box was ok

 

[Hugh Jarse]

i sent out a camera on the weekend, the look i got when i said i wanted to insure it up to £1000 was priceless. I imagine the look would have been something similar if i had told him i was sending weapons grade plutonium

No mention of battery issues, i even told him it was a camera I'm sure i remember reading about it when the legislation came out and thinking it wasn't actually an issue. Something along the lines of if the battery is in the camera it's fine or vice versa :/

You are right

If the battery is properly fitted in the equipment its OK for UK to UK addresses.

I half remember seeing something that excluded air mail from UK to other countries.

Logic aside you could put a 3rd party battery in the camera to be posted that is cracked and still be legal. Although a potential fire hazard.

There have been discussions on here when the rules were introduced and different companies that other TP members used were offering differing interpretations of the rules.

S

 

[Steve Smith]

Some batteries can also be posted in their original packaging.

If the battery is properly fitted in the equipment its OK for UK to UK addresses.

International too. On another forum, I take part in a post a camera round the world thing where we all take a couple of shots and pass it on. Batteries in the camera posting to the US was fine and it had already been to a few other countries.


Steve.

 

[Dave *]

You are right

If the battery is properly fitted in the equipment its OK for UK to UK addresses.

S

There can also be spares in the package according to the RM site

Batteries - lithium ion/polymer batteries sent with, but not connected to, an electronic device.

The maximum number of batteries allowed in each package is the number that may be connected to the equipment plus two spares.

The maximum net quantity of cells or batteries is 5kg per package. Watt-hour rating must not exceed 20Wh per cell or 100Wh per battery.

http://www.royalmail.com/personal/help-and-support/Tell-me-about-Restricted-Goods

 

[amtaylor]

There can also be spares in the package according to the RM site



http://www.royalmail.com/personal/help-and-support/Tell-me-about-Restricted-Goods

Depending where you go. 2 weeks ago the post office flatly refused to send my parcel that had spares not connected to the camera and said there was no way I could send them with royal mail

 

[Dave *]

Depending where you go. 2 weeks ago the post office flatly refused to send my parcel that had spares not connected to the camera and said there was no way I could send them with royal mail

Perhaps you should print out the page at the link and drop it in there next time you are passing.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

Perhaps you should print out the page at the link and drop it in there next time you are passing.

They may still refuse but a good idea

Something of an intellectual challenge for them.

That said a "risk averse" counter clerk may just dig their heels in and still say no.

Steve

 

[urbansecrets]

i just don't use them these days crap service and too expensive !

 

[Hugh Jarse]

i just don't use them these days crap service and too expensive !

I use RM for quite sensitive time critical stuff

Whilst seemingly expensive I found RM better than TNT on both the time critical documents and price.

The test for RM starts now with potential, but unsurprising. job reductions as the drive for "efficiency/profit" drives the business forward. Same happened with the Canadian Postal Service.

Steve

 

[ShinySideUp]

When I get asked what's in the parcel by RM I answer 'aquarium plants'. The other day I did actually try to send some aquarium plants, it was a small box weighing 1.7kg and they wanted £8.90 1st class, no tracking. I told them I wouldn't bother as the postage far exceeded the value of the plants. I loved the Post Office but Royal Mail are doomed by that 'same price to everywhere' caveat. Get rid of that and have people pay more to send stuff to off-map places and they stand a chance, if that doesn't happen...no more Royal Mail.

We get stuff delivered by DPD from Amazon, it's fast, accurate and the timed delivery is almost flawless. Collections are spot on, they come with all the paperwork and you can leave the parcel in a safe place if you are not going to be in -- really, most impressive. I work for TNT but I would use DPD if I ran a business; TNT are reliable for Next Day but ridiculously expensive.

 

[StewartR]

I loved the Post Office but Royal Mail are doomed by that 'same price to everywhere' caveat. Get rid of that and have people pay more to send stuff to off-map places and they stand a chance, if that doesn't happen...no more Royal Mail.

Well, that's more of a political decision than a business one. Get rid of the universal service obligation and what happens is that Cornwall, mid/west Wales, most of Scotland except the big cities, Northern Ireland and the Isle Of Wight have no affordable delivery services. With Scottish independence being talked about seriously that's political dynamite. Nobody dares go there.

We get stuff delivered by DPD from Amazon, it's fast, accurate and the timed delivery is almost flawless. Collections are spot on, they come with all the paperwork and you can leave the parcel in a safe place if you are not going to be in -- really, most impressive. I work for TNT but I would use DPD if I ran a business; TNT are reliable for Next Day but ridiculously expensive.

I do run a business and I do use DPD. They are brilliant. But - the other big carriers aren't. DPD are so ridiculously far ahead of the other major players (CityLink, UK Mail, FedEx, TNT, DHL, UPS, APC, ParcelForce etc) in terms of technology that it's hard to believe.

But it's not cheap. Phone up any of these guys and ask them how much your box of plants would cost to deliver. They'll make Royal Mail seem like a bargain, even to mainstream mainland destinations. Send dozens or hundreds of boxes a week and it becomes competitive. But if you don't have large volumes - and basically, private individuals don't - then these services aren't for you. Which brings us back to Royal Mail.

 

[Techy Guy]

Last time I posted two packages using the royal mail I told the clerk that one was explosives, the other a small puppy. I did get a confused look but she put them through anyway and they arrived safely and unopened. Paid a fortune to send them as usual though. I should point out that I wasn't actually sending explosives or animals through the post.

 

[Nod]

Ha.

Ha.

Ha.

 

[ernesto]

We get stuff delivered by DPD from Amazon, it's fast, accurate and the timed delivery is almost flawless.

Matches my experience. I buy a lot of stuff (too much time on the internet!) and if I could choose which courier was to be used it would be Royal Mail first, closely followed by DPD. Only Royal Mail first because the collection office for missed deliveries is on my way to work and not in an industrial estate 12 miles away...
Royal Mail is expensive but with the literally 1,000s of items I have bought and sold I have had one single issue and received full compensation.

 

[Nod]

I rarely send parcels but when I do it tends to be via Parcel Force through the Post Office unless it's a pre-paid Amazon return which goes to the closest drop-off place (slightly ironically in what used to be our closest Post Office). For deliveries, we are (like everyone else) at the mercy of the sender. I am a fan of DPD's because they tell you a delivery slot and are (or have been so far!) accurate in their timings. If I suspect we may be out, I tell them where to put the parcel and they e-mail me a couple of photos of it where they've put it! 2nd would be the Royal Mail since the collection office is quite handy for the city centre and parking while Parcel Force's collection is slightly less convenient. Yodel seem to just leave the package on the doorstep and the others all have industrial estate collection points which are as convenient as a fart in a spacesuit!

 

[MrMPT]

We send parcels regularly to Australia not only are we asked what is in the parcel we have to make a customs declaration. Not sure 'big off' would be appreciated by Australian customs and more significantly their equivalent of Min of Ag and Fisheries. They will quarantine anything they don't like the look of. Anyone but RM requires a remortgage to send a parcel.

 

[doggel]

I sent a large and powerful flash-gun by post last week by RMSD, and when the woman behind the counter asked me what the contents were, and I said a flashgun worth £400, she looked up sharply and said "Any batteries in it?".
i was able to reply, honestly, that there were not, but I did wonder what would have happened if I had left the usual 6 eneloups in it! The implication seemed to be that she would not have accepted it

 

[Gortch]

I like brash's approach. But I think you'd need to be pretty adventurous to send a camera with RM.

 

[StewartR]

But I think you'd need to be pretty adventurous to send a camera with RM.

Nah, do it all the time. Just make sure you follow the rules about the number of batteries you're allowed, the parcel is labelled to say it contains batteries, explain to the counter staff. It's really no hassle.

 

[Gortch]

Nah, do it all the time. Just make sure you follow the rules about the number of batteries you're allowed, the parcel is labelled to say it contains batteries, explain to the counter staff. It's really no hassle.

I wasn't suggesting the hassle was a concern. I'd be a lot more worried about its treatment whilst in their hands, the possibility of it getting lost, or, damaged.

 

[StewartR]

I wasn't suggesting the hassle was a concern. I'd be a lot more worried about its treatment whilst in their hands, the possibility of it getting lost, or, damaged.

Statistically very very unlikely. Plus RMSD can be fully insured (£500 as standard, and up to £2500 for a token premium) for the cost of replacement if a parcel is lost or damaged. The other carriers typically limit their liability to something like £10 or £20 per kilo, and the premium for getting proper insurance cover would be about 5% of its value - which seems to imply an astonishingly high loss rate!

I'd say it's pretty adventurous to send a camera with anyone other than Royal Mail.

 

[Gortch]

Well don't come crying to us when one turns up lost or broken.

 

[Dave *]

I would agree with Stewart, while standard RM gives a worse service now than previously, RMSD is still the best service for time sensitive and/or valuable items. For something like a camera it is by far the best service available (short of getting in your car and hand delivering it).

 

[Nod]

I wasn't suggesting the hassle was a concern. I'd be a lot more worried about its treatment whilst in their hands, the possibility of it getting lost, or, damaged.

If something gets damaged in transit (or Kangoo or LDV etc...) I would say that was down to insufficient packaging. It's a fact of life that couriers are busy and that parcels are liable to be dropped but if the packet is properly packaged, the contents will survive.

 

[Ed Sutton]

Well don't come crying to us when one turns up lost or broken.

How can something turn up lost?

I've been sending fragile goods to people for over 20 years. I'd say that no courier service is any more likely to lose or break something than any others. The only reason RM gets a bad rap is that it's the service most members of the public use.

 

[ecoleman]

We use Royal Mail and send hundreds of parcels every week. I can count on one hand the number of losses we've had in the last 12 months.

Couriers on the other hand, we have them on speed dial and spend far to many hours on the phone to them weekly chasing delayed, missing, damaged parcels. They all seem to be as bad as each other, but as we send a lot of batteries, we have no choice but to use them, but we will always use Royal Mail where possible.

 

[Tigger.ufo]

I have worked for Fedex, Business Post, Securicor, TNT, White Arrow, Littlewoods and a few lesser courier companies in the past and can say from experience that none of them are any better than the others.( with the possible exception of Fedex) and have spoken to drivers from virtually all the others who have much the same opinion.

Sending valuable/fragile items? RMSD every time for me.


.

 

[ernesto]

I have worked for Fedex, Business Post, Securicor, TNT, White Arrow, Littlewoods and a few lesser courier companies in the past and can say from experience that none of them are any better than the others.( with the possible exception of Fedex) and have spoken to drivers from virtually all the others who have much the same opinion.

.

From a customer perspective, again DPD is way better than all the others. They are making use of technology available which is good for them (less wasted time on redeliveries) and the customer (as I know in advance what day the parcel is coming and can reschedule it before they even attempt delivery) They then send an email on morning of delviery with a one hour time slot which they keep to.

Compare that to UPS whose worst example was leaving a missed delivery card saying package was left with Stuart, no house name. Walked around neighbourhood looking for Stuart, called UPS who said it was my problem and I should know all my neighbours, went to manager who was a bit more helpful and found out that it hadn't been left with anyone and the driver mistakenly left a card saying it was!
Other companies don't even bother leaving a card or just throw the package somewhere or leave it with neighbours even though I make it clear not to do that (I buy lots of stuff and I feel it is not good to expect other people to keep accepting your parcels)

I have never had any of this with RM which is why I happily use them.

 

[colda]

RM are putting up their prices, MyHermes exclude all electrical items from compensation, this week I used CollectPlus (on the buyer's recommendation) to send a camera, 'lithium' and 'electrical' do not even appear in their terms and conditions and I can't fault the service (arrived next day) and tracking facility

 

[Blank_Canvas]

Well I'm really flashed up. Having waited in all morning and half the afternoon for FEDEX to collect a return from me. They never turned up. They updated the Tracking Number with 'Unable to gain access' - Couldn't be bothered more like. I have been looking & listening out for them all day. I have things to do and need to get. Waiting for the Supervisor to come back to me !