Scanning 120 film with a digital camera

Ben johns

Ben johns

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Does anyone have any tips on how to scan 120 with a digital camera? I’ve sold my scanner as I wasn’t using film enough to justify the space it took up.
It would be 6x6 as I would only use my zero Pinhole and zeiss folding camera now.
I have a Sony a6000, Fuji xpro1 and for lenses an old canon fd 70-210 f4 macro lens.
ive tried it before with 35mm but the results were always pretty poor compared with I’ve seen from other people.
 
I have had success with the X-T2 and the 35mm (f1.4) with the 16mm extention tube for 6x7.
 
I may well be mistaken, but I beleive that I had read somewhere that there is some sort of scanner "app" available for iphones.

No interest to me personally but if it exists for scanning film then there's an option.

I get a feeling that i may be getting confused with a scanning app for them square barcode thingies...whatever they are supposed to be or do :thinking:

Anyway if something exists then cool, if not then just ignore me…..Perhaps best to do the latter without further delay tbh :tumbleweed:
 
There are various articles on t'internet and maybe even on here about this. Issues to think about...

a) light source, eg some kind of light table. iPad possible, but IIRC it helps to raise the negative above the surface a little bit to reduce any pixelation effect. There's an iPad app that will give you a blank screen (can't remember the name, I'll check on the OH's iPad later). Clearly you'd want a stable colour temperature source if you're doing colour film.

b) keeping the negative flat. Not sure if you'd get Newton's Rings if you used a glass sandwich?

c) macro zoom (?) lens usually, you're probably talking about distances of 30 cm or less

d) keeping the sensor plane exactly parallel to the negative (or you get distortion). A tripod of an appropriate height or a copy stand should do it. Tripod needs to hold the camera securely, pointing down, without toppling over, obviously. Probably OK with an A6000 and a decent ball head...

e) get the camera low enough and/or the lens long enough for the negative to film the frame.

f) focus...

g) (not really sure about this) reduce extraneous light to increase contrast, maybe just a topless/bottomless cardboard box?

h) a way to do negative inversions. Generally OK for black and white, but an issue for colour negative because of the orange mask. There are articles out there about how people do it. Colour correction becomes an issue though.

Or... send the film to somewhere like Filmdev to be processed and scanned in a oner!
 
I could send it to be developed and scanned but would cost between £10-£15 a roll. I used to develop at home so I only need to buy the chemicals.

i only really use black and white film so wouldnt have to worry about colours being off.

I was thinking about buying a film holder from a scanner but it’s hard to know which one holds the film flattest
 
Ben johns said:
I was thinking about buying a film holder from a scanner but it’s hard to know which one holds the film flattest
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I have the lomo Digitaliza which has the benefit of revealing the rebate if you're into that sort of thing. Forty quid. https://shop.lomography.com/en/digitaliza-120-scanning-mask There is also the Pixl-latr which is having a troublesome kickstarter at the moment but I believe will also do the job. Great if you're ever considering moving up to 4x5 and will do 135 as well as 120.

The flattest results I've had have been under ANR glass with a flatbed. When I was DSLR scanning on an LED light table, I used four coins to hold down each corner of the frame I was digitalising which delivered results just as good as the film holder. Touching negatives with anything other than cotton gloves though will make some people squirm...
 
If it helps, I use an app called Screen Light on my iPad, primarily as a lightbox for checking negs and slides.
 
Harlequin565 said:
I have the lomo Digitaliza which has the benefit of revealing the rebate if you're into that sort of thing. Forty quid. https://shop.lomography.com/en/digitaliza-120-scanning-mask There is also the Pixl-latr which is having a troublesome kickstarter at the moment but I believe will also do the job. Great if you're ever considering moving up to 4x5 and will do 135 as well as 120.

The flattest results I've had have been under ANR glass with a flatbed. When I was DSLR scanning on an LED light table, I used four coins to hold down each corner of the frame I was digitalising which delivered results just as good as the film holder. Touching negatives with anything other than cotton gloves though will make some people squirm...
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the lomo mask is what im considering buying. Ive seen matt days video and he uses those when he scans his 35mm with a camera
 
I've done it with 4x5 and the hardest part was getting an even light source. With B&W the colour temperature of the light isn't too critical but what I found to work was to put a piece of white paper on the floor and point two flashes at the paper, one from either side. I put the neg on a sheet of glass a couple of feet above the paper (the glass was between two chairs) then the camera with macro lens was on a tripod directly above that.

Still once you've gone to all that trouble you begin to wonder why you didn't just shoot the photo on the DSLR in the first place :LOL:
 
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sirch said:
I've done it with 4x5 and the hardest part was getting an even light source. With B&W the colour temperature of the light isn't too critical but what I found to work was to put a piece of white paper on the floor and point two flashes at the paper, one from either side. I put the neg on a sheet of glass a couple of feet above the paper (the glass was between two chairs) then the camera with macro lens was on a tripod directly above that.

Still once you've gone to all that trouble you begin to wonder why you didn't just shoot the photo on the DSLR in the first place :LOL:
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Im starting to feel that way!
For me its so I can use my pinhole camera. I made a bodycap pinhole lens but the amount of dust that was on the sensor! Plus I like using the Zero 2000.
 
Yes, that's a definite improvement!

Just seen a new article from Tim Layton, who's testing out a scanning setup using a pixel-shift camera to get 465 Mp images: https://www.timlaytonfineart.com/blog/2020/1/scanning-film-with-pixel-shift-technology-part-1 . He doesn't share the results yet, and sometimes doesn't seem to follow through on things (or maybe he follows through for his paying customers but not the free-riders like me), but I thought it was interesting. He's very focused (sorry) on the resulting print quality, and he does like to go large!
 
ChrisR said:
using a pixel-shift camera to get 465 Mp images
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Is there any point? I would have thought that kind of resolution was well below the grain size of most films ... perhaps for 8x10?
 
sirch said:
Is there any point? I would have thought that kind of resolution was well below the grain size of most films ... perhaps for 8x10?
Click to expand...

He does take 8x10 and has his own drum scanner, so he's definitely at the high end, selling large art wet prints and inkjet prints! But yes, less of an issue for the rest of us. ;)
 
I’m considering going down the DSLR scanning route but my biggest concern is getting the camera film plane parallel to the negative, what methods are folk using to ensure it stays parallel and also are you tethering so you can see what you’re scanning without trying to peer into the viewfinder?
 
RaglanSurf said:
I’m considering going down the DSLR scanning route but my biggest concern is getting the camera film plane parallel to the negative, what methods are folk using to ensure it stays parallel and also are you tethering so you can see what you’re scanning without trying to peer into the viewfinder?
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I've got an old Jessops lightbox, maybe 8x10 size, and I've tried shooting negatives on it with an X-T2 on a tripod. I originally tried this at floor level, but you're right about peering into the viewfinder making it awkward.

I then tried raising it all onto a table with the screen folded out at right angle so I could use it without peering down from above. The X-T2 was used in manual with focus peaking set to confirm when the neg was in focus, and the results were sort of OK. This was done because I just couldn't get decent colours scanning the negs from the disposable challenge last year, so it's very much a last resort as long as my scanners keep working.

DSCF1505-copy.jpg-tp.jpg
 
I've found that a Bowens Illumitran is great for negs up to 6x6. I got this one for £70 a few years ago...

Bowens Lumitran with Canon 5 mounted 9521.jpg

...and an example (via a Canon 5D)...

Hasselblad 500 4_13.jpg
 
I've seen somewhere that a copystand rather than a tripod is recommended for stability reasons, but also that it might be better setting the whole thing up horizontally as well... (bit of engineering/bodging required to get the negative in a vertical plane?).
 
RaglanSurf said:
I’m considering going down the DSLR scanning route but my biggest concern is getting the camera film plane parallel to the negative, what methods are folk using to ensure it stays parallel and also are you tethering so you can see what you’re scanning without trying to peer into the viewfinder?
Click to expand...
I have a tripod (well 3 actually now I think about it :) ) where the centre column goes horizontal so that camera shoots down between the legs and it's fairly easy to get the camera level. As noted above I have the neg on glass a couple of feet off the floor and I tend to use WiFi and my phone - so kind of tethering or remote live-view - for framing and focusing
 
sirch said:
I have a tripod (well 3 actually now I think about it :) ) where the centre column goes horizontal so that camera shoots down between the legs and it's fairly easy to get the camera level. As noted above I have the neg on glass a couple of feet off the floor and I tend to use WiFi and my phone - so kind of tethering or remote live-view - for framing and focusing
Click to expand...
How do you make sure its exactly parallel Chris? I've got a Manfrotto tripod that has a flippable centre column but I'm still not sure it will sit square.
 
RaglanSurf said:
How do you make sure its exactly parallel Chris? I've got a Manfrotto tripod that has a flippable centre column but I'm still not sure it will sit square.
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Look for a set of "spider legs". These were popular devices for carrying around to make copies. Mine are the Pentax Copypod but several companies made them and they used to be quite common. A small camera can just be laid on top as shown but heavier cameras will need to be screwed onto the (removable) lens mount...

Pentax Copypod (Spider legs) with camera TZ70 P1030573.JPG
 
AndrewFlannigan said:
Look for a set of "spider legs". These were popular devices for carrying around to make copies. Mine are the Pentax Copypod but several companies made them and they used to be quite common. A small camera can just be laid on top as shown but heavier cameras will need to be screwed onto the (removable) lens mount...

View attachment 270906
Click to expand...
That's great, thanks Andrew
 
What height copy stand should I be looking for for 5x4?
 
RaglanSurf said:
What height copy stand should I be looking for for 5x4?
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That will depend on the lens and the depth of your light source. The legs on the Copypod are about 14” closed as shown (they extend to roughly twice that) and should easily cover 5x4 on a 2” deep light source using a 50mm lens on full frame. You might even cover the 5x4 using an APS sensor with the same lens.
 
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RaglanSurf said:
How do you make sure its exactly parallel Chris? I've got a Manfrotto tripod that has a flippable centre column but I'm still not sure it will sit square.
Click to expand...

I've got a geared head on the tripod so good control of the movements and then check that the edges of the neg are parallel to the edges of the live view.
 
A while ago I got a used x-ray viewing panel from ebay to look at some transparencies, I'd previously used a homemade light panel. Wasn't too expensive and the light source is very even across the whole panel. Much better than using a laptop screen, for example. I didn't use it to scan negatives or positives though so can't be absolutely sure how it would perform. I think the tubes in it are daylight balanced.
 
ChrisR said:
Doesn't that depend on the lens you're using? Focal length, angle of view etc?
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It does chris and I’d like to make it as standard an operation as possible but since this is a new area for me I’d like to know if it’s doable with one lens to cover everything from 35mm to 5x4 but just adjusting the height and whether that’s possible with an adjustable height copy stand.
 
I think I saw something somewhere about someone (!) using a macro zoom lens... would that be an option for you?
 
I use an upside down Meopta Color3 head with a Sony A7II attached to el-Nikkor 50/2.8 N via a macro reverser and macro bellows - works beautifully.
For 120 - same setup but with with Sony's 55/1.8, because the el-Nikkor can't focus at that distance. I am on the hunt for a good 35mm companon, but they are expensive

I also use 120 film holders from the Plustek 120 scanner with custom black acrylic adapters to keep it all straight and flat.
For 35mm I use a holder from a different scanner, I don't remember which now.

The benefit of using a color head is you can eliminate most of the colour cast optically.
I use sony's Remote desktop application to capture - helps to eliminate the shake and nail the focus
Lightroom then autoimports the raw image where I reverse the curves per each channel. I found that to work better than the general curve

A bit tricky to then keep in mind that everything is inverted, including white balance, but you get used to it


IMG_20200308_160022378.jpg
 
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