scanning film with DSLR

treeman

treeman

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Thinking of using a light box and a DSLR with extension tubes to get 1:1 for scanning 5x4 negs. Just wondering if that would give good enough quality for web use?

I've got an Epson V600 but that won't go as big as 5x4, though I understand you can do it in two parts and stitch it together in PS, but seems a bit of a faff.
 
Unless your DSLR is out of the ark there's no reason why the resolution wouldn't be more than adequate for web use.

There's a few folk on here that have rigged a variety of digital/ligh box set ups all with more than acceptable results.
 
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How many shots will you have to take to get 1:1? It works for 35mm/ff not sure how much easier it will be than scanning a sheet twice.
 
Your basic problems would be (at least)

a) maintaining the negative perfectly flat
b) illuminating it evenly with good white light
c) mounting your DSLR exactly parallel with the negative
d) possibly, keeping stray light out
e) if colour negative, inverting it while taking account of the colour mask etc. (Colorperfect would presumably do this.)

It's been done though I don't remember a thread specifically for 4*5. I was wondering if you could rig up your 4*5 camera with the lens removed and camera in its place, and the negative where the film plane would normally be?
 
steveo_mcg said:
How many shots will you have to take to get 1:1? It works for 35mm/ff not sure how much easier it will be than scanning a sheet twice.
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Exactly my thoughts. For web use, if you must use a DSLR, surely you'd be better off getting some for of decent lens (like a 60 ish to 105mm ish macro lens) and just filling the sensor with the entire sheet (image) and what ever reproduction ratio you get is unimportant?

Unless that's what you were thinking all along?
 
I'd agree that you should try the stitching method first as it is free with the kit you already have and it's something to do in the bad weather! Beyond that, I guess it depends how much you would want to use it, but you can get a lightbox relatively cheap on the auction site. https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/A5-LED-U...960553?hash=item280aec7569:g:W2cAAOSwhvFZAb~s

Just put it flat on the floor with the neg or slide on top and the dslr on a tripod facing downwards. There's no need to fill the frame for a web use shot as you can just crop it, but metering is crucial.
 
That looks like a fairly simple bit of kit that could be fabricated easily specially with modern acrylics for example.... Now if we only knew someone with an inventive mind who had access to laser cutters and an ability to make bellows. :whistle::)
 
Andysnap said:
That looks like a fairly simple bit of kit that could be fabricated easily specially with modern acrylics for example.... Now if we only knew someone with an inventive mind who had access to laser cutters and an ability to make bellows. :whistle::)
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I would have thought it would be possible to use a 5x4 camera as the basis for a film digitiser, it's something I'm looking into with mine!
 
robhooley167 said:
I would have thought it would be possible to use a 5x4 camera as the basis for a film digitiser, it's something I'm looking into with mine!
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Two rear standards on a mono rail one with a light box and a film holder and a high end flat bed scanner at the other.
 
robhooley167 said:
I would have thought it would be possible to use a 5x4 camera as the basis for a film digitiser, it's something I'm looking into with mine!
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So, you are suggesting that to digitise a 5 x 4 negative you use a large format camera..... :) I like it, a very neat cyclical solution. (y)
 
Andysnap said:
So, you are suggesting that to digitise a 5 x 4 negative you use a large format camera..... :) I like it, a very neat cyclical solution. (y)
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I reckon it's possible to make a small light box capable of mounting on the rear standard, and mounting a DSLR to the front standard via the lensboard coupled to the end of the DSLR lens. As a proof of concept it's the same as the 5x4 digitiser in the link posted earlier, but we'd be reusing existing hardware rather than reinventing the wheel. The practicalities would need to be ironed out with the use of appropriate lenses, but it should be feasible.
 
robhooley167 said:
I reckon it's possible to make a small light box capable of mounting on the rear standard, and mounting a DSLR to the front standard via the lensboard coupled to the end of the DSLR lens. As a proof of concept it's the same as the 5x4 digitiser in the link posted earlier, but we'd be reusing existing hardware rather than reinventing the wheel. The practicalities would need to be ironed out with the use of appropriate lenses, but it should be feasible.
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Totally agree - it has to be a possibility.
 
Andysnap said:
That looks like a fairly simple bit of kit that could be fabricated easily specially with modern acrylics for example.... Now if we only knew someone with an inventive mind who had access to laser cutters and an ability to make bellows. :whistle::)
Click to expand...
robhooley167 said:
I would have thought it would be possible to use a 5x4 camera as the basis for a film digitiser, it's something I'm looking into with mine!
Click to expand...
Andysnap said:
So, you are suggesting that to digitise a 5 x 4 negative you use a large format camera..... :) I like it, a very neat cyclical solution. (y)
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Ahem, see post #4!;):):)
 
I’m not sure who you’re talking about Mr Snap but I have seen this option;

IMG_0201.jpg

Obviously this is the wrong way round for a DSLR digitiser (I’ve got the light coming from the lens board to illuminate the slide that’s sitting on top up the ground glass), but the idea of mounting a lightbox to the rear standard is definitely an interesting option. You’d obviously need to figure out the best focal length to reduce the amount of cropping of the digital image and consider the size of the front standard for mounting a DSLR/Mirrorless body and lens but anything is possible.

The alternative could be that someone makes some sort of acrylic lightbox frame that would allow for all three common film sizes (135/120/4x5) to be securely clipped into a frame that stands up on its own and diffuse either natural or digital light (like, say an iPad) to shine through the back and allow them to digitise them..
 
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But no build threads until you've made my Chroma!
 
ChrisR said:
But no build threads until you've made my Chroma!
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No problem. This is a actually a product I’ve been designing and building for someone else to launch via Kickstarter so I can’t really leave the images up.

I do like the idea of building an LED lightbox into a dds style housing to mount to the back of the Chroma though.
 
Umm, am I missing something ere

why are we not just using an led surface downlighter, for 10 quid its not worth the effort of making something
I got a small square one at £5 for my set up, its perfect for 6x6 but there are bigger ones that'll cover 5x4
I've got everything I need to get mine up and running.......I just can't be bothered...lol
 
pic

sen86x.jpg



:)
 
stevelmx5 said:
The alternative could be that someone makes some sort of acrylic lightbox frame that would allow for all three common film sizes (135/120/4x5) to be securely clipped into a frame that stands up on its own and diffuse either natural or digital light (like, say an iPad) to shine through the back and allow them to digitise them..
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... or be illuminated with flash?
 
robhooley167 said:
I reckon it's possible to make a small light box capable of mounting on the rear standard, and mounting a DSLR to the front standard via the lensboard coupled to the end of the DSLR lens. As a proof of concept it's the same as the 5x4 digitiser in the link posted earlier, but we'd be reusing existing hardware rather than reinventing the wheel. The practicalities would need to be ironed out with the use of appropriate lenses, but it should be feasible.
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Why do you give me more plans in my mind Mr Hooley, I’ve got enough as it is!

I never got as far as building my LightBlock because of other projects but I could revisit it and embed magnets into the front face of it so it could be connected direct to the rear standard of the Chroma. Once that’s in place, I could either use the existing front standard and mount a lens through a lens board or build a dedicated front standard that’s more substantial to take the weight of a DSLR/lens and then use the existing front standard movements (rise/fall/shift) to pixel-shift the FF sensor and cover the entire 4x5 image. Those multiple images could then be stitched to make a large resolution scan to give a better quality image than cropping the 4x5 frame from the centre of a single FF image.

completeunit.jpg

circuit.jpg

The benefit of my LightBlock over the LED downlighter panel above is that it runs of an embedded 3.7v lipo battery that’s rechargeable via USB instead of needing a mains connection. As well as being self-contained, it can also be disconnected from the rear standard and used as a standalone light frame.
 
stevelmx5 said:
Why do you give me more plans in my mind Mr Hooley, I’ve got enough as it is!
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You work on the chroma, I’ll have a think about this! I need something to procrastinate on whilst I’m writing my thesis!
 
A couple of years ago, I made a bracket which put the front piece of an old slide copier in front of the lens of a Nikon compact camera set to macro. I also made a negative holder which was the same height as a slide which would fit in the place of a slide. There are a couple of pictures on another thread here.

EDIT: Found it. Half way down this page: https://www.talkphotography.co.uk/threads/film-negative-scanners.660682/#post-7918274

It worked very well... until I dropped the camera and broke it!


Steve.
 
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ChrisR said:
I had a feeling that the side light coming in would reduce contrast, which is why I thought having the bellows in place would help. OTOH I have no evidence for this!
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Turning the lights off in the room where you're doing the copying would work too, although if you're using a Chroma (TM!) it'll probably have bellows on it anyway.
 
Yeah, you might not think it but stray light really takes the edge off everything.
The backlighting needs to be confined to the exact dimensions of the film too, or you get bleed at the edges.
This may mean you need separate masks for different formats......which is an added faff factor/complication.
 
joxby said:
Yeah, you might not think it but stray light really takes the edge off everything.
The backlighting needs to be confined to the exact dimensions of the film too, or you get bleed at the edges.
This may mean you need separate masks for different formats......which is an added faff factor/complication.
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Definitely. I’ve already drawn up adaptor places for the LightBlock for the exact same reason.
 
stevelmx5 said:
No problem. This is a actually a product I’ve been designing and building for someone else to launch via Kickstarter so I can’t really leave the images up.

I do like the idea of building an LED lightbox into a dds style housing to mount to the back of the Chroma though.
Click to expand...

I noticed today that Hamish Gill of 35mmc (known to kick around with Steve) is trailing a possible kickstarter for a device to help digitise your film (35mm up to 4x5) with a DSLR. See http://pixl-latr.com .
 
ChrisR said:
I noticed today that Hamish Gill of 35mmc (known to kick around with Steve) is trailing a possible kickstarter for a device to help digitise your film (35mm up to 4x5) with a DSLR. See http://pixl-latr.com .
Click to expand...

Funnily enough Chris, I designed it [emoji6]

Me and Hamish have been working together for the last 12 months on a few variations of the idea he originally had a few years ago and he’s now ready to launch. I’m biased, but it’s a very simple and effective unit, especially if you want to quickly digitise and upload your film. Obviously your image output resolution is determined by the camera you use but it’s a nice unit and works very well as a display frame for slide film at the same time (4x5 slide looks particularly awesome in it on a windowsill [emoji1303] )

IMG_0403.jpg
 
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