School prom - 2 flash setup advice

Jimi-the-fish

Jimi-the-fish

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I have been volunteered to do some small group shots at my wife's school's prom. I have two flashes on stands with shoot-through brollies and have managed to borrow a 3m wide white paper roll background and supports etc.
My question is do I use one flash for the group and one for the background or both cross-lighting the group or one front and one rim lighting from behind???
Or indeed another set-up I don't know about.

Any advice gratefully received.

thanks

J
 
mike weeks said:
Are you expecting the white background to be white in the finished image?
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I guess that gets to the nub of my question. In the past I have brightened a white background in post using masking etc. but I am not sure I want to do that for a large number of shots. Presumably, lighting it with one flash would still give light falloff at the edges. But will they look terrible if the background is not lit?

J
 
it won't look white. Terrible is a matter of taste. Personally I prefer the grey look this will give you, but you may find thats not what expected. Brightening in post never looks right (just MHO) and you don't want to do that for this number of shots
 
I'd look at the architecture of the building and see if I could find an interesting/plain background.
 
Thanks guys. So Hugh, would you forget lighting the background and use the second flash for a rim light from the back or as fill from the front?

J
 
Jimi-the-fish said:
Thanks guys. So Hugh, would you forget lighting the background and use the second flash for a rim light from the back or as fill from the front?

J
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If you're having (as I'm sure you will) a high throughput of pupils I would use the second as fill from the front, just to make it a little easier for you. But it would be worth getting input from either @mike weeks or @Jerm as both do this lots
 
Jimi-the-fish said:
To go where?
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To light the background.

As youve pointed out the guys above are a lot more experienced at this so may be able to give some better advice.

If it was me id try to get on site a day or 2 before get set up up with a willing model (one of the kids or someone i can bribe with a beer) and try the different set ups. lighting there may be really good, it also may be crap. If you have a third light and don't need it all then you haven't lost out but if after a couple of shots and you think crap I needed another light or reflector and you haven't got one then theres not alot you can do.
 
Fatheadedlizard said:
Borrow a third light?
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Fatheadedlizard said:
To light the background.

If it was me id try to get on site a day or 2 before get set up up with a willing model (one of the kids or someone i can bribe with a beer) and try the different set ups. lighting there may be really good, it also may be crap. If you have a third light and don't need it all then you haven't lost out but if after a couple of shots and you think crap I needed another light or reflector and you haven't got one then theres not alot you can do.
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Good ideas thank you. Triggering might be an issue, I'll have a think and a play.
Cheers

J
 
I'd second the idea of using a light to fill from the front as close as you can to the axis of the lens. I've done these sorts of photos for our school a few times and the numbers of pupils and poses tend to wind up being very variable. At least with fill from the front you won't end up having to sort out shadows when you inevitably end up with them 2 or 3 deep and staged together where cross lighting would leave some pretty horrible shadows. As for the background, with a large one like that either accept it being grey or try and get some more lights to light it evenly. That said, if you can at least get the bit of the background directly behind them well lit it becomes much quicker to sort the fall off around the edges in post when you don't have to tidy up around their bodies.
 
Thanks Dougie. So I think you are saying main 45 degrees one side with fill direct front (I assume high up - would on camera and bounced off the ceiling work if it is low enough?) plus some light on the bg if I can source a third flash and work out the triggering. Is that correct?

J
 
mike weeks said:
When you answer step 1 then we can move to step 2 ;)
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Except step 1 wasn't really a question. What background would be better then?
Limited equipment - Yes - I guess I have portable flashes rather than mains ones and no softboxes etc.
Limited space - I am not sure how much space one usually has for these things but I assume that space at these events is usually limited compared to a studio, for example.
Limited experience - there is an assumption here. Limited exp. of prom photography, yes, or I wouldn't be asking I guess. Limited exp. of using a white bg, no, as stated in my second post. As you state it as the most important limiting factor, what is it about using a white bg for this that makes it most difficult?

thanks,

J
 
Thanks again Mike.
I notice from your website that you often use black with a red gel lit centre which seems to work well :) although I am not in a position to try it.
I hadn't considered white on white issues either...
cheers

J
 
White background usually requires x 2 lights evenly lit one either size of backdrop. Then subject illumination from one or two lights.
 
White + white, could make for a contemporary hi-key image. Careful attention needs to be given to the printing though.
 
mike weeks said:
You must be looking at the wrong website, never used a red gel, or you have seen an image and misinterpreted what has been done - I have used Pink and allowed to fade to black though

Mike
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Sorry Mike it was the website of the other chap that was mentioned, @Jerm, not yours. I looked at both one after the other and got mistaken :banghead:. I have now refamiliarised myself with your work!!

J
 
You are hugely over-complicating and over-thinking this.

Take your flash (is it a studio mains flash or hot shoe?), with a brolly and a stand, find a complimentary/appealing/interesting/uncluttered background and fire away.
 
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Jimi-the-fish said:
Sorry Mike it was the website of the other chap that was mentioned, @Jerm, not yours. I looked at both one after the other and got mistaken :banghead:. I have now refamiliarised myself with your work!!

J
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Yes, Jeremy demonstrated this a couple of years ago at Focus - it is an old technique that can give very saturated colour. Jeremy is a nice bloke and a friend so happy to be mentioned in the same thread.

Mike
 
Hi Jimi - apologies for my late reply to this thread... it's silly season for proms at the moment.

Mike is right in that white is IMHO the hardest background to get right in camera for this type of work, and made harder by your lack of equipment.

The black with red tint background that I use requires 5 lights, gridded softboxes and rim lights etc so not really a goer for you.

Mikes comment about changing the background is the one I'd agree with most.

When I first started out, I used a muslin patterned cloth.. cost about £80 if I remember. These can look quite garish when they come out of the packet, but they're designed not to be lit, and photograph very well.

My point here is with just two lights you should be looking to light the subjects, not the background. The fall-off of light mutes the background and they come out subdued but effective.

Does that help at all ?


J
 
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Not sure if it helps but I went to a neighbour's daughter's 21st last weekend and took a couple of flashes with me. I took some photos outside first with one flash to the left with a bare CTO gel and one slightly to the right with an umbrella.



Later on, I put one of the strobes with the umbrella by the dance floor and encouraged the guests to pose. They didn't need that much encouraging. I'm not sure a plain white background is that much fun.

DSC_5588.jpg


DSC_5580.jpg

DSC_5589.jpg
 
Thanks guys for all the advice, I see what you mean about white now and the simple flash lit shots with some nice OOF background look good.

J
 
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