Second Body Advice

[Pookeyhead]

Ok.. I'm weighing something up at the moment, and I'm not sure I am being objective. I could do with a balanced, neutral opinion.

I previously had two bodies in my 35mm SLR bag. A D800 as main body and a D600 as a spare/second.

Not long ago, I did a deal with someone and essentially swapped my D600 for another D800.. plus a small amount of cash... so then I had 2x D800s.

I recently bought a D610 as a astro-photography body, and removed the AA filter, so that's essentially useless as a real camera now as that's ruined the AF, but having another small camera made me realise why I wanted a D600 as a second body in the first place.

So... I've put one of the D800s on Ebay, and that's settled... it's going.

The quandary, is this... While I intended to get another D610 as spare body, I'm now playing with the idea of a D800E. While it will be back to square one with having 2x heavy bodies.. it does mean I can wring out some extra detail when in the studio under controlled conditions.

So... spare body: D800E or D610?

 

[treeman]

But presumably a second D800 would be a back up, so only needed if the first one should fail, in which case the D610 makes sense as its smaller and a good walk about, however having looked at one yesterday, the completely different layout to the pro bodies would drive me nuts.

 

[Pookeyhead]

But presumably a second D800 would be a back up, so only needed if the first one should fail, in which case the D610 makes sense as its smaller and a good walk about, however having looked at one yesterday, the completely different layout to the pro bodies would drive me nuts.

I know... I'm used to the layout though, as I used to have a D7000 before I went FX.

Just need to try and work out if a D800E would be advantageous in the studio. I fully intend to get the new Zeiss 85mm Otus when released, and it would wring the last drop of sharpness out of it better... but then my spare body would be back to a great big heifer. I really do draw the line at buying a D610 AND a D800E!! It's one or the other.

Shall ponder some more. I do like the weight of the D600/610 though.

As for a walkabout.... I don't do much of that... most of what I shoot is planned. However... when on holiday, the D800 and FX lenses is a pain in the arse! I am considering a Sony A7R system for travel.

 

[Diving Pete]

get the E, That the right tool for the studio. The D610 will have you thinking you made a compremise - & you would be.

 

[LongLensPhotography]

Why not just hold on to it and wait a year for D800 replacement. All cameras are pretty good tools but being conservative would save a little cash for something else. Or you could get 5DIIIs

 

[Pookeyhead]

Why not just hold on to it and wait a year for D800 replacement. All cameras are pretty good tools but being conservative would save a little cash for something else. Or you could get 5DIIIs

I'm really struggling to see what a D800 replacement would bring to the table to be honest. 36MP is clearly enough to ensure it's the lenses that are the limiting factor.. even with the Otus. It's low noise performance is top notch. I can think of nothing else I would need. If it had 4K video it may be worthwhile, but I can't see that happening. Otherwise... I'm wondering if any replacement forthcoming would actually be worthwhile.


As for the 5DMkIII... why would I want to downgrade?

 

[MWHCVT]

I cannot believe there is already talk of replacement models are there really people out there with the itch for a new model already, good god do the cameras not do all that we want already not really all that clued up on the studio side of things as frankly it's of so little interest to me it's unreal, in fact taking photos of people is not really of interest to me if I'm honest, but I do remember being told that the E was specifically aimed at the studio market so if you feel it will be of sufficient use to you I'd say go that route, that said it also sound like your wanting a lightweight camera for more general use so maybe you need to look for something smaller/lighter for those times...

One question you've mentioned modification to your D610 specifically for Astro work, I was wondering if prior to doing that you'd considered the 60Da considering the is a camera specifically developed for Astro work

 

[Pookeyhead]

One question you've mentioned modification to your D610 specifically for Astro work, I was wondering if prior to doing that you'd considered the 60Da considering the is a camera specifically developed for Astro work

I considered it, yes. Its only concession to astro work is a low pass filter that passes IR too. It still has a low pass filter however. I wanted rid of that entirely for as much sharpness as possible. Also, I wanted FX... not only for extra sharpness, but also for a wider field of view. I don't image planetary stuff, and I can always use a decent barlow lens if I need greater mag (or even buy a longer focal length scope... scopes are actually quite cheap.. it's the mounts that cost).

I've also now got a 24MP FF camera that can take IR shots should the urge arise

Taking it apart was some scary a$$ shizzle though, I can tell you. Not for the faint hearted!

 

[LongLensPhotography]

I'm really struggling to see what a D800 replacement would bring to the table to be honest. 36MP is clearly enough to ensure it's the lenses that are the limiting factor.. even with the Otus. It's low noise performance is top notch. I can think of nothing else I would need. If it had 4K video it may be worthwhile, but I can't see that happening. Otherwise... I'm wondering if any replacement forthcoming would actually be worthwhile.

Not so long ago somebody said that 640K RAM is more than plenty... Look where we are now. I can bet you 4K is coming (because Canon will put it in), but also a lot more. Think somewhere along the lines of 16bit sensor, alternatives to bayer layout (and it will resolve much more than 24MP), electronic shutter and everything else that will follow from it. I am not specifically saying D900 will have it all, just that there is plenty of room for innovation and it will happen. It should be out next winter not long left now..

 

[MWHCVT]

I considered it, yes. Its only concession to astro work is a low pass filter that passes IR too. It still has a low pass filter however. I wanted rid of that entirely for as much sharpness as possible. Also, I wanted FX... not only for extra sharpness, but also for a wider field of view. I don't image planetary stuff, and I can always use a decent barlow lens if I need greater mag (or even buy a longer focal length scope... scopes are actually quite cheap.. it's the mounts that cost).

I've also now got a 24MP FF camera that can take IR shots should the urge arise

Taking it apart was some scary a$$ shizzle though, I can tell you. Not for the faint hearted!

That's fair enough really all understandable too...

I'll be honest were I in your shoes of looking at back body/studio body/lighter more general camera I'd probably consider trying to ship of a 800 for an 800E to cover the studio and be a realistic backup option, then if budget allowed maybe a D7100 as a general camera when you don't need 36mp/full frame

I know what I'd love canon to make and that's 35mm sensor in a crop style body...I'd love a light weight full frame body, ideally a 6D chip or the next gen of that chip as and when it comes out...I'd just love a light body for general use when I don't really want to be humping a 5D3 about

 

[LongLensPhotography]

I know what I'd love canon to make and that's 35mm sensor in a crop style body...I'd love a light weight full frame body, ideally a 6D chip or the next gen of that chip as and when it comes out...I'd just love a light body for general use when I don't really want to be humping a 5D3 about

That would be horrible as it wouldn't balance with most decent lenses, let alone holding one in hand would be painful. It's like asking for smaller shoes

P.S. You can buy Sony A7 with EOS adapter...

 

[MWHCVT]

That would be horrible as it wouldn't balance with most decent lenses, let alone holding one in hand would be painful. It's like asking for smaller shoes

P.S. You can buy Sony A7 with EOS adapter...

For you maybe...

A7 holds no interest to me as I've zero interest in an electronic viewfinder or an camera that you have to charge via USB, not to mention using an adapter I'm guessing would alter the FoV and possible degrade image quality...

 

[Pookeyhead]

Not so long ago somebody said that 640K RAM is more than plenty... Look where we are now. I can bet you 4K is coming (because Canon will put it in), but also a lot more. Think somewhere along the lines of 16bit sensor, alternatives to bayer layout (and it will resolve much more than 24MP), electronic shutter and everything else that will follow from it. I am not specifically saying D900 will have it all, just that there is plenty of room for innovation and it will happen. It should be out next winter not long left now..

If it has all that, then I'll buy one next winter. Doesn't help me now though

I'd be very surprised if there's an alternative to bayering, 4K video and electronic shutter all in the next release. Not sure what you mean by it will resolve more than 24MP though.. The limit is the lenses with the D800 now, so there's not really much you can do about resolution unless you step up to medium format.

 

[Ed Sutton]

While I intended to get another D610 as spare body, I'm now playing with the idea of a D800E. While it will be back to square one with having 2x heavy bodies.. it does mean I can wring out some extra detail when in the studio under controlled conditions.

So... spare body: D800E or D610?

Given that you concentrate on planned photography with maximum detail resolved it sounds (to me) like the D800E would become your main body and the D800 the back up. The solution might be D800E and D610. Alternatively D800E and D800 for work with something like a Fuji X series (or similar small APS camera) for the holidays. Just my two bob's worth.

 

[PaulButler]

...
I recently bought a D610 as a astro-photography body, and removed the AA filter, so that's essentially useless as a real camera now as that's ruined the AF, but having another small camera made me realise why I wanted a D600 as a second body in the first place.

The quandary, is this... While I intended to get another D610 as spare body, I'm now playing with the idea of a D800E. While it will be back to square one with having 2x heavy bodies.. it does mean I can wring out some extra detail when in the studio under controlled conditions.

So... spare body: D800E or D610?

I'm wondering if the answer is both ... i.e. replace your current D800 with the D800E and get a D610 ... I don't understand why you would choose to use the D800 if you had the D800E, by that I mean if you owned both I'm not sure how the D800E would be the backup, and I suspect it would become your goto DSLR ... of course if you got the D800E and kept the D800, just relegate the D800 to back up duties ...

 

[HoppyUK]

Can't believe you're struggling with the answer to this David! Try re-reading your own posts on the subject

TBH, I'm wondering if you just want sans-AA filter for the sake of it, to see what it can do. I can understand that, so go and scratch that itch - it's the only way. Hire one for a week. But you'll need fine lenses and to output BIG to see much improvement. At normal output sizes, those fine lenses will also look better on a D800.

On the other hand, you could just get sensible. Sell the D800 as you are, and spend the money on putting your D600 back the way God made it, get a cheap APS-C IR camera for the two worthwhile images a year you'll likely use it for, treat yourself to some really nice glass. And polish up that sloppy technique of yours or all will be lost

 

[Gary Coyle]

Cant help you with your camera choice David but wouldn't you get a better price selling it on here rather than Ebay with its £75 seller fee and 3.5% paypal fees on top, you might also get a nice cosy feeling.

 

[Pookeyhead]

Cant help you with your camera choice David but wouldn't you get a better price selling it on here rather than Ebay with its £75 seller fee and 3.5% paypal fees on top, you might also get a nice cosy feeling.

Possibly.... thought I'd take a punt on bid fever kicking in at the end. I've got more than I wanted in other auctions through that. The risk is of course that the opposite can also happen. Plus.. just wasn't thinking fully as well. I hardly ever sell stuff in forums... just didn't cross my mind.

Ok.. I've been reading people's responses, and as I thought, I never saw the elephant in the room.... which is to have a D800E, and a D610. It does seem to be the logical choice... I mean... as others have said, why use the D800 when you have the D800E?

so go and scratch that itch - it's the only way. Hire one for a week.

I've used it before. I was loaned both D800 and D800E for a week before I chose the D800. The sharpness advantage wasn't enough to warrant the cost difference. However... in the studio, I'm craving it now, and in the studio, I can control exactly what aperture I need more of the time. Outside, if I need to shoot at F11 or F2.8 for example.. then the losses incurred by using the lens at less than optimum negates the extra sharpness.

Looks like that's the way forward... lose the D800s... get a D800E and the D610... except I won't destroy this D610

Thanks for shedding some objectivity on this... I was over thinking this and not seeing the bloody obvious.

 

[Gary Coyle]

Nikon DF???????

 

[Pookeyhead]

DF? Nah... too much a gimmick as a second body. I think I'm pretty firmly set on a D800E and a D610, and later this year when my bank balance recovers, a Sony A7R system for travel.


Thanks for sharing thoughts everyone.

Cheers.

PS. This has actually been an abject lesson in why you shouldn't arse about. I started out with a D800 and a D600.. and after wasting several hundred pounds, I'll be back where I started almost, with a D800E and a D610.

Oh well... like I always say: You can't spend it when your dead.

edit: Panamoz have a very attractive price on the D800E. I may pull the trigger on that now instead of waiting for the others to sell.

 

[Musicman]

For you maybe...

A7 holds no interest to me as I've zero interest in an electronic viewfinder or an camera that you have to charge via USB, not to mention using an adapter I'm guessing would alter the FoV and possible degrade image quality...

EVF I can't help you with, but to fill in your guesses with some facts:

- While Sony don't supply a charger with the A7/r, you can use an external charger (I have a Hahnel universal charger that I use with my Canon 5D and Panasonic G2 batteries and works fine with the A7 ones too). In-body charging over USB is a useful additional option if you're on the move, however.

- An adapter would only alter the FoV if you're using medium format system lenses. The A7 and A7r are 35mm full frame.

- An adapter for any 35mm system lens would need no optical element (with no degradation of image quality) as the register on Sony E mount is only 18mm.

There are some issues with wide angle, short-register rangefinder lenses with rear elements close to the image plane producing a magenta cast because of the angle that light strikes the sensor, but that is as much a film/digital issue as anything else. SLR lenses with a longer register have few problems.

I use my A7 happily with Olympus OM, Canon FD and Contax C/Y lenses from 17mm to 500mm.

 

[MWHCVT]

EVF I can't help you with, but to fill in your guesses with some facts:

- While Sony don't supply a charger with the A7/r, you can use an external charger (I have a Hahnel universal charger that I use with my Canon 5D and Panasonic G2 batteries and works fine with the A7 ones too). In-body charging over USB is a useful additional option if you're on the move, however.

- An adapter would only alter the FoV if you're using medium format system lenses. The A7 and A7r are 35mm full frame.

- An adapter for any 35mm system lens would need no optical element (with no degradation of image quality) as the register on Sony E mount is only 18mm.

There are some issues with wide angle, short-register rangefinder lenses with rear elements close to the image plane producing a magenta cast because of the angle that light strikes the sensor, but that is as much a film/digital issue as anything else. SLR lenses with a longer register have few problems.

I use my A7 happily with Olympus OM, Canon FD and Contax C/Y lenses from 17mm to 500mm.

Useful information the the EVF is the killer for me...

 

[sk66]

I personally don't think there's much to differentiate the D800/E in IQ. And while moire isn't that common, and it's avoidable if you know how, it is also almost impossible to fix.
To me, the D800 *is* a small body...
I use a Nikon V2 or Fuji X20 as my compact (somewhat undecided between them). The V2 w/ Ft-1 on a macro lens is kind of cool (2.7 crop)

 

[Pookeyhead]

The D800's size doesn't bother me... but it's almost 1Kg for just the body.. so 2 of those, and heavy lenses, and you feel it after a while

Pretty much decided a A7R makes sense for travel. Like Matt.. I absolutely HATE digital viewfinders... but full frame... 36MP... and even smaller than the D610... I'm prepared to just hate the EVF I can't think of anything better for travel... except perhaps for the RX1.... but that's stupid money.

 

[Nod]

Next week's AP could be of interest to you, David.

 

[Pookeyhead]

God I've not bought that for 30 years!... LOL. What are they reviewing?

 

[Nod]

The Sony and Nikon options as above.

 

[Pookeyhead]

Just read in the A7 thread that the EVF is a nightmare in bright sunlight. So maybe I need to rethink that as a travel option.. LOL I've always thought EVFs were sh1t.... seems like they've not got any better. Gonna hold off on that until I can get my hands on one and test it myself.

 

[ancient_mariner]

As with all things there are limitations, and bright sunlight seems the biggest limitation with a digital viewfinder right now, at least for me, though I will likely try one of those eye cup attachments to shut out stray light.