Sellers selling 2nd hand lenses...

[SLRUser]

When looking at 2nd hand lenses (not necessarily on here, also fleabay etc.), why is it that 99% of the time there are no decent sample pictures provided that were actually taken with the lens being offered?

When there are sample photos, the photos of the lens (obviously using a different lens) are usually better quality than the ones taken with the lens they are trying to sell.

Sorry, just a small rant...it is now over.

 

[jay1601]

i will agree with you on this.

 

[woof woof]

I haven't bought too much off the famous auction site, maybe a dozen items, but every single piece of photography related equipment bought off a private seller has been misdescribed, faulty or damaged in some way.

I've never sold anything on there but I just couldn't mislead people and I think it's a shame that some seem willing to.

 

[scraggs]

Any seller who ain't putting up the best pics they have taken with the lens they are selling isn't making the most of thier add.
Every lens I have sold has had images taken with it added, and all have sold really easily at decent prices.

 

[Amp34]

It's a bit pointless having sample photos anyway. Anyone stumping up potentially thousands will have checked what the lens is capable of anyway and sample variance isn't particularly bad (although sigma did go through a bad patch a while back). Add that to the fact the poster will invariably post up the best image they have taken with the lens (be that sharpness or whatever) and most will also just post a 800x533 version anyway which gives you no indication of the quality of the lens other than what the focal length may look like...

 

[blue max]

It may say more about the photographer than the lens.

But if you feel you have samples that highlight a feature of the lens, you would be well advised to include them of course.

For every rule, there is another to completely contradict it.

People can be fickle.

Graham

 

[Nifkin]

It's funny though when they include a picture of the box for the lens, usually taken with their iPhone; like that reassures you of the condition and quality of the product

 

[cambsno]

It's funny though when they include a picture of the box for the lens, usually taken with their iPhone; like that reassures you of the condition and quality of the product

I think that someone who has taken the trouble of keeping the box in good nick is more likely to take care of kit.

Can you prove that the lens in question took sample pic anyway?

 

[Olly_K]

It's funny though when they include a picture of the box for the lens, usually taken with their iPhone; like that reassures you of the condition and quality of the product

iPhone image is better than no image. Especially if they don't have another lens

 

[Nifkin]

I think that someone who has taken the trouble of keeping the box in good nick is more likely to take care of kit.

Can you prove that the lens in question took sample pic anyway?

First point: Nonsense! The lens could've been dropped in a river/ashtray/toilet during it's working life whilst the box just sits on top of a wardrobe.

Second: EXIF data?

iPhone image is better than no image. Especially if they don't have another lens

Of a box? lol.

 

[Olly_K]

Of a box? lol.

of anything i was looking to buy second hand

 

[Nifkin]

of anything i was looking to buy second hand

But how does a picture of the box (my original point) tell you anything about the condition of the item you are buying to use? If a picture of the box satisfies you, then it may as well be a picture of the front of the branch of Jessops that the item was originally purchased from

 

[Olly_K]

ooooook then..

 

[Nifkin]

Something wrong, Oily?

 

[Olly_K]

no im good, you have a point. I guess I'd look at other things like feedback before I wrote the seller off completely though

 

[Nifkin]

no im good, you have a point. I guess I'd look at other things like feedback before I wrote the seller off completely though

Yeah, the feedback thing here on TP is a very useful tool. I recently bought a lens on here from a member who posted pics of the lens itself only, but who, when asked, promptly emailed me a couple of raw images taken with the lens (EXIF data intact). I don't think the initial advert has to be exhaustive, but if a seller was unable to provide sample pics on request then I'd be suspicious.

 

[cambsno]

Will exif really tell you it was this lens in question and not a pic I took from say flickr or that a mate took with that type of lens?

I am not stupid enough to think that because someone has a box the lens is mint, obviously optics are the no1, then the outside. But I do think it can show that they are more likely to take care of stuff. I make a point of storing all boxes etc and I do take great care of kit, so that when I sell it is often 'as new'..

 

[HoppyUK]

What possible use is a picture taken with the lens? What can it tell you? That the owner was a good photographer, or was good a shooting brick walls or something? Complete waste of time.

If you want to know how good a lens is, read some reviews, ask around. If you want to see the sort of things it's capable of, there will be hundreds if not thousands on Flickr - just type in the lens name and they they all are.

What you need to know is what condition it's in.

 

[Kaouthia]

I think that someone who has taken the trouble of keeping the box in good nick is more likely to take care of kit.

Maybe, maybe not.

My SB-900s, for example, have the odd scuffmark where they've been accidentally dropped or a ceiling hasn't been quite as high as my lightstand thought it was, but their boxes are absolutely pristine due to the fact that they've been sat untouched in the attic since the day they were emptied.

So, a good quality box does not necessarily mean the contents reflect the same level of care.

 

[Davie]

I've an ad on the tp sales forum just now, my 1st, and I was considering all these points before I posted it. I did a description and posted a dozen quality pics of the items, I took pics with the body and lens for sale in antisipation of someone asking for sample shots but no one has asked yet. The lens sold without them. If people selling stuff are becoming lazy it is because the buyers are as bad

 

[Nifkin]

Will exif really tell you it was this lens in question and not a pic I took from say flickr or that a mate took with that type of lens?

Well, no. It won't tell you if the lens is stolen either, for that matter. But if you get them to email you a picture demonstrating the sharpness of focus/shallow DOF using todays newspaper, I'd pretty much take their word for it

I am not stupid enough to think that because someone has a box the lens is mint, obviously optics are the no1, then the outside. But I do think it can show that they are more likely to take care of stuff. I make a point of storing all boxes etc and I do take great care of kit, so that when I sell it is often 'as new'..

Just because someone drops/bashes their kit by accident doesn't mean they don't take care of their stuff. Like I said, once the kit is taken out of the box, and said box doesn't end up in the bin, it's unlikely to get touched again, whereas its likely that a lens/body would be handled daily, and there more prone to mishaps.

As nice as it is to get the original packaging with a peice of used kit, coz it creates an illusion of newness, I certainly don't factor it in to my evaluation of whether I'm getting a bargain/good copy of an item or not.

 

[Slimbert]

What can it tell you? That the owner was a good photographer

I think that's all it can tell you.....:shrug: How would you know if/how it's been processed? It would tell you nothing at all about the lens being sold....not even if it actually exists or not! :shake:

Posting/looking at an example shot taken with a lens up for sale, is absolutely useless!!

 

[Kaouthia]

Posting/looking at an example shot taken with a lens up for sale, is absolutely useless!!

To a point. I think if 100% crops of the corners and center were included at whatever apertures, it can be an indicator as to whether a lens may be a bad sample (of course it could be a bad body that's taken the shot or, as others have said, a crap photographer, if those 100% crops aren't up to par with image samples out there on the web).

 

[Slimbert]

To a point. I think if 100% crops of the corners and center were included at whatever apertures, it can be an indicator as to whether a lens may be a bad sample (of course it could be a bad body that's taken the shot or, as others have said, a crap photographer, if those 100% crops aren't up to par with image samples out there on the web).

But you'd always be relying to some degree on the photographers ability, and there's always room for dishonesty.....:shrug:

 

[Nifkin]

To a point. I think if 100% crops of the corners and center were included at whatever apertures, it can be an indicator as to whether a lens may be a bad sample (of course it could be a bad body that's taken the shot or, as others have said, a crap photographer, if those 100% crops aren't up to par with image samples out there on the web).

+1

I think it can be a useful part of the buying/selling process, considering that every sale on TP is heavily reliant on the goodwill of both parties. I'd always be happy to oblige a punter if it made them feel more secure with the transaction.

 

[HoppyUK]

It's the buyer's responsibility to know what they're buying. Not hard with photo gear, a few minutes of google.

It's the seller's responsibility to describe the item accurately, and any variation from new.

If it doesn't work out, send it back. That's how honest people do business. And that's why it works so well on here.

A few sample pics, of tiny resolution, in complete isolation, is utterly meaningless.

 

[Nifkin]

Why in tiny resolution? I'll email you raw files if you would like to check the sharpness of my Siggy 50 wide open before you buy; due to all the fables about Sigma's QC floating about this and other forums, you may wish to check see if you're getting a sharp copy. For example

 

[LongLensPhotography]

What possible use is a picture taken with the lens? What can it tell you? That the owner was a good photographer, or was good a shooting brick walls or something? Complete waste of time.

If you want to know how good a lens is, read some reviews, ask around. If you want to see the sort of things it's capable of, there will be hundreds if not thousands on Flickr - just type in the lens name and they they all are.

What you need to know is what condition it's in.

I disagree. If the seller refuses to provide an original sample image, there is something fishy. It happened a few times to me on ebay and I backed off every single time.
full size sample (or even raw) taken in a particular way can be very informative. It can tell if the lens has potential focus problems, element misalignment or other issue. I have spotted a number of lemons this way whereas the description might be "flawless copy in excellent condition, no issues".

 

[HoppyUK]

Why in tiny resolution? I'll email you raw files if you would like to check the sharpness of my Siggy 50 wide open before you buy; due to all the fables about Sigma's QC floating about this and other forums, you may wish to check see if you're getting a sharp copy. For example

I disagree. If the seller refuses to provide an original sample image, there is something fishy. It happened a few times to me on ebay and I backed off every single time.
full size sample (or even raw) taken in a particular way can be very informative. It can tell if the lens has potential focus problems, element misalignment or other issue. I have spotted a number of lemons this way whereas the description might be "flawless copy in excellent condition, no issues".

You're just trying to test the honesty of the seller, not the quality of the lens.

Pics in isolation, Raws, 100% crops etc mean nothing in isolation. I could post pics from a kit lens that would pass for L grade, if I wanted to be deceptive.

If you don't like the lens I've just sold you, then that's because you've not done your homework. But no worries, just return it.

 

[kartracer]

In 2001, soon after that famous auction site started in the UK, I sold a lot of Nikon film kit, including some very nice lenses (all mint and boxed) on that site. On suggestion from a friend in the USA (as to how it worked there) I shipped the items after the auction closed - to buyers in UK, Holland, Germany, Norway, etc. And within a week, all the payments arrived. Never had a problem.

When I purchased from buyers on the same site in UK, USA, and other countries, I found all the sellers courteous, honest, and helpful. Never had a problem. And, strangely, never had a single item lost in the post.

The times are a changing.

I still use that site, but with much more caution. And whereas the world's biggest bookstore has a stellar reputation (which I support) private seller scammers have moved in there too (albeit to a much lesser extent).

So, after finding certain other forums less than friendly, and their mods at times officious, I'm pleased to have found TP!

 

[zooxanthellae]

I purchased a lens from the bay once, looked very nice in the pictures. What actually turned up was a very different lens condition wise. I would only buy from forum members now as the few lenses I have obtained from forum members have been stellar. Just my limited experience though.

 

[jpw]

I've bought a couple of used lenses from the 'bay recently - I picked up a Nikkor 18-35mm and Tamron 28-75mm both around half the current RRP, both were exactly as described and in perfect working order. Maybe I got lucky? I did the usual checks of the seller's feedback and recent activity (if they had recently bought the lens that was now up for sale, alarm bells...) but it was all OK. I had previously only bought new as the current 2nd hand prices for those lenses weren't that much lower than buying new, so it didn't make sense to risk a 2nd hand copy with no warranty etc. However, if the savings are significant it makes sense to me to go the used route. What doesn't make sense is when I see people bidding up to near £1000 for the likes of the Nikkor 24-70, when for a bit more they could get a brand new one with full warranty. Crazy.

 

[HoppyUK]

I purchased a lens from the bay once, looked very nice in the pictures. What actually turned up was a very different lens condition wise. I would only buy from forum members now as the few lenses I have obtained from forum members have been stellar. Just my limited experience though.

I've bought a couple of used lenses from the 'bay recently - I picked up a Nikkor 18-35mm and Tamron 28-75mm both around half the current RRP, both were exactly as described and in perfect working order. Maybe I got lucky? I did the usual checks of the seller's feedback and recent activity (if they had recently bought the lens that was now up for sale, alarm bells...) but it was all OK. I had previously only bought new as the current 2nd hand prices for those lenses weren't that much lower than buying new, so it didn't make sense to risk a 2nd hand copy with no warranty etc. However, if the savings are significant it makes sense to me to go the used route. What doesn't make sense is when I see people bidding up to near £1000 for the likes of the Nikkor 24-70, when for a bit more they could get a brand new one with full warranty. Crazy.

Points well made. There are always dangers buying second-hand from a total stranger.

But going back to the OP, how would a few sample pictures taken with the lens in question (allegedly) help with that?

 

[Amp34]

I've bought a couple of used lenses from the 'bay recently - I picked up a Nikkor 18-35mm and Tamron 28-75mm both around half the current RRP, both were exactly as described and in perfect working order. Maybe I got lucky? I did the usual checks of the seller's feedback and recent activity (if they had recently bought the lens that was now up for sale, alarm bells...) but it was all OK. I had previously only bought new as the current 2nd hand prices for those lenses weren't that much lower than buying new, so it didn't make sense to risk a 2nd hand copy with no warranty etc. However, if the savings are significant it makes sense to me to go the used route. What doesn't make sense is when I see people bidding up to near £1000 for the likes of the Nikkor 24-70, when for a bit more they could get a brand new one with full warranty. Crazy.

You may not be able to afford that extra £200 for a brand new one for starters. Also buying used and selling used a couple of years later will probably mean you won't lose any money between times, something that won't happen when buying new. Perhaps if you have a lot of money then not a problem but on a student (for example) budget that really makes a difference, especially if they need different lenses semi regularly.

As for warranty, yes it's nice to have but most lenses that fail through mechanical problems or have bad optics will fail and be sorted within a year or two. If it hasn't broken within the warranty period there is a very good chance it won't break without some form of accident or abuse (which isn't covered by warranty anyway).

Personally (from someone that normally always buys new) lenses are different for me, for the above reasons I'll probably always buy used lenses, unless of course I end up with lots of money and can afford to just splurge money on lenses.

 

[Kaouthia]

have bad optics will fail and be sorted within a year or two.

That is, of course, assuming the owner of the lens understands how good a lens should be in the first place.

I've seen plenty of stories posted on various sites throughout the years of owners not realising there was even an issue with their lens until they used a friend's copy of the lens and found that it was much sharper, had less CA or whatever; and bodies that didn't focus just quite right (although they were "sharp" by the seller's standards because he just resized down to 800x600 for facebook).

 

[Amp34]

Well yeah, but then if there is that much of an issue most people would ask to send the lens back to the seller. (Although I know there would be some issues with some sellers)

 

[tijuana taxi]

Why are people so worried about the box?

Bloody nuisance keeping empty boxes and although the box has been kept safe and sound the item could have been bashed about all over the place

 

[LongLensPhotography]

Why are people so worried about the box?

Did you not know that boxes can be used to decorate your living room? They also take great photographs and make coffee

 

[tijuana taxi]

Didn't know that, shame about all the empties I have chucked out

To prove how daft it all is, i have seen empty boxes for sale on Ebay and here very occasionally too

 

[SLRUser]

Why are people so worried about the box?

Bloody nuisance keeping empty boxes and although the box has been kept safe and sound the item could have been bashed about all over the place

The way I look at is is this: If the person can look after an empty box and keep all the bits that go with it safe, then they probably look after their kit. This is obviously not always the case of course, but that is just my feeling.

The other reason I personally keep boxes is that if something goes wrong with it, and it still looks like it is in pristine condition, the retailer can't say that I haven't looked after it.