Selling Photos from Brands Hatch

Ploddles

Ploddles

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I couldn't find anything on the Brands Hatch web site about photography etc. so thought I'd ask here.

I went there on Sunday, for a track day, with a friend of mine and needless to say we took a photo or 2 (about 1000 between us).

He sent a few shots to various people/teams and was asked if he could remove his watermark so that they could use the photos on their website etc.

He said that they could use them with the watermark intact or for a fee they could have and use unwatermarked photos.

Heard back today with them saying that he could not sell the photos to them as Brands Hatch hold the photo rights.

I know that sort of thing goes on at the league football grounds (DataCo I believe) but can anyone confirm that this is also the case at Brands Hatch?

Thanks for any help.
 
I cant answer for sure, perhaps ask them for evidence of this? If they can provide the evidence, dont handover any photos as you arent making anything from it. Simple as that.
 
I suspect that you can't sell the images... MSV has control and they provide track day photographs through contract photographers. Allowing you to sell the images would infringe on the contract photographer's market. Best answer is probably to contact the media department at MSV.
 
MSV have the terms on conditions of entry on their website - www.msvtrackdays.com

If you had a ticket it's probably in the small print.
 
I like the way the images cannot be sold because of the MSV rules but can be given away ..?

They are going to end up in the same place.

D
 
Here it is:

Photography and Production of Coverage

Other than taking still photographs for personal, non-commercial and non-promotional use, no riders, passengers or their guests are permitted to produce or broadcast any audio, visual (still and/or moving) and/or audio-visual coverage of the venue or any activity at the venue in any media without obtaining MSV's prior written consent.

http://www.msvtrackdays.com/bike/terms-and-conditions.aspx
 
Has anyone ever been pursued by MSV over selling pictures like this! it's hardly going to make a dent in their profits I would have thought ?
 
I believe that MSV can provide you with a permit to sell photos taken at their circuits for commercial use, but I don't know what the fee would be.
 
Willid1 said:
Has anyone ever been pursued by MSV over selling pictures like this! it's hardly going to make a dent in their profits I would have thought ?
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It might not make a dent in MSV's pocket but it would certainly shaft the photographer providing the commercial service.
 
I wanted to do a photoshoot for Streetfighters back in the day...they wanted £500 for the privilidge, this was about 1995 mind, so not an inconsiderable sum.

I find it quite amusing that photographers are all so keen to try and take the bread out of another photographer's mouth, on the basis that 'it wouldn't make much of a dent' - the only reason the team is wanting to use your picture(s) is because they have to pay for the pictures from the guy who has had to pay for his pitch - just like the burger van man has to pay to sell you a burger. MSV are not only protecting their rights, they are, in a roundabout way, protecting the livlihood of the contracted photographer - you want pictures from within the private facilty, you pay for them.

Yes, I have heard of people being taken to court for infringing the rights, and they had to pay the same as if they had paid for the rights to photograph on the day, because those are the damages the defendant has suffered, plus costs, of course. Barristers don't come cheap and they will not skimp on their legal defence because they have them on tap anyway and know the costs will be awarded. It really is an open and shut case - there is no defence of ignorance in law ' I didn't know' is not good enough.
 
Well that other photographer that paid for his pitch must have been wearing a brilliant ghillie suit.

In the 6 hours that we were there, the only other photographer we saw, apart from a few people with their kit lenses or iphones taking shots of their mates in their clapped out fiestas, was someone who worked for one of the teams that was testing. So nobody was taking the bread out of anyone else's mouth as far as we could see.
 
Ploddles, look at it this way. As you progress in your photography and start to want to make money from it, you won't be able to because someone else is giving their images away for free. The information in small print is clearly on the ticket just like every other major event when it comes to photography and selling images without a permit. At the end of your day it's your choice, and of course you get a good feeling someone wants to use your images, but they only want to mainly because they would be getting the images for free.
 
There are no tickets on track days and I can't see anything on their web site either, that is why I asked the question in the first place.

Personally I'm quite happy to pursue photography purely as a hobby and anyway I don't have the confidence to take it to another level.
 
Personally I would give them a phone or email, see what they say...

It could be that on Track days, which is joe public driving and not competition racing, that they might view it differently....

If you look under the FQA, you see a link for media which takes you to their official site, where you can obtain accreditation either for a season or single event, but you have to register to see information..... But this seems to be surrounding the Competition/Events

Worth asking
 
Ellie Jones said:
It could be that on Track days, which is joe public driving and not competition racing, that they might view it differently....
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Ummmmm...

Track days are probably the most valuable in photographic terms; ie they produce the most revenue.

As for terms and conditions - they've been posted above.
 
ChrisH said:
Silverstone have the same rules, but it still might be worth a call. Tell them your an amateur not commercial photography and they might just let you.
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How can someone selling their images be an amateur? It conflicts with the very definition of the word.
 
Big difference in my opinion between being an amateur who wants to sell a couple of pictures and a commercial organisation. But hey ho such is life.
 
No difference at all. If you want to sell images, you aren't acting as an amateur and therefore non-amateur rules apply; ie you pay a licence fee.
 
I've been in a chicken and egg situation at the Goodwood FoS for many years. On several occasions manufacturers, drivers etc have asked to purchase my photos or use them for commercial use. However as a non accredited photographer my hands are tied, some very lucrative opportunities have been 'lost' due to this.

However, I can't gain accreditation because I'm not shooting for a media outlet. Such is life, nothing that can be done after the fact.
 
DemiLion said:
How can someone selling their images be an amateur? It conflicts with the very definition of the word.
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That's a whole other debate as to what constitutes "Pro" and amateur. Pro is usually defined by where someone has the majority of their income from the activity. If you go with the intent of selling then its commercial. If you take photos then are approached to sell to a party then its not. It also has a tax bearing

Would you class a one time seller on eBay as a professional ebay marketplace

ukaskew said:
I've been in a chicken and egg situation at the Goodwood FoS for many years. On several occasions manufacturers, drivers etc have asked to purchase my photos or use them for commercial use. However as a non accredited photographer my hands are tied, some very lucrative opportunities have been 'lost' due to this.

However, I can't gain accreditation because I'm not shooting for a media outlet. Such is life, nothing that can be done after the fact.
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The option is to make yourself a media outlet by making yourself a company, and produce a website. You can get some upfront endorsement quotes from these manufacturers.
 
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