Selling Prints: Borders or No Borders ??

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David
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Dilemma here. When printing something that you want to sell, do you either:

a) Go from a certain 'A' size and add a border on top of it, so then the total width of the paper will be larger
b) Don't enlarge the 'A size, and make the image smaller to make it fit within a certain A size

I'm considering using board-backed envelopes with corn-starch 'plastic' sleeves and the photo print inside to tone down costs.
Also looking for Stabilo pens/pencils to mark the front or back of print.
 
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9,575
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Hi David,

Re: sizes ~ You previously asked the same question on another thread and I posted my advice/suggestions there ;)

In regard to packaging ~ you mention marking the prints but to what end?

I have introduced a few limited edition prints. I had to do some tests to find the appropriate pen to sign them in the larger than usual border i.e. not all pens will mark all papers.

IMO ~ If you are intending to print on quality paper, you really should enclose the print in acid free materials to compliment the 'value' of the prints.
 
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Dael_Pix
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David
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Yes I asked a question about borders, but not this particular question.

Signed with signature and name of image, and number if limited editio,. which is why there will be a border. Paper will be Epson Semi Gloss 260gsm..
 
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9,575
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Yes I asked a question about borders, but not this particular question.

Signed with signature and name of image, and number if limited editio,. which is why there will be a border. Paper will be Epson Semi Gloss 260gsm..
Ok, in my other post I said I always get prints done with borders..... increased size borders if signed LE's.

A4 is 8.3 x 11.7inches ......so the IMO nice sized print for sales of 8x12 inches is not available to you if you use A4 sized papers. For home printing if you want to print that size (or a tad bigger) you need an A3 printer.

Because I use a commercial printer they can print any logical size due that they print on roll of paper.

When say my prints are 8x12inches that is the actual area of the print...... a few will be behind the mount (as I recall that is 2mm hidden off each edge ;) )
 
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Dael_Pix
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David
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I'll be using theprintspace. I won't be printing anything myself.
 
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Dael_Pix
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David
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Changed title and changed wording in opening post.
 
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9,575
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Why be fixated on "A" size prints, they don't match any sensor size ratio...............so any editing you would need to do is cropped to an uncommon size.
 
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Dael_Pix
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David
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Does it matter?
All the images I upload on theprintspace are cropped to a certain size.

I have actually changed to 12x8
But no doubt you're going to say that is uncommon too.


Below image is what I have so far. Any wording is not set in stone and is only a draft

Untitled.jpg
 
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2,817
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Andy
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A thought on print sizes - people are likely to buy off the shelf frames and mounts, so check that the size of prints you are proposing have readily available mounts and frames.

In terms of borders, again, have a think in terms of mounts. Will 15mm at the bottom be enough room to sign without going off the paper, and have enough room for a mount to overlap by a few mm?

I know that not everyone will necessarily want to window mount, but in my experience, that is the convention when framing, especially for an ‘art’ print.

Personally, when I print for my portfolio, I print 15x10” on A3 paper (as that’s the biggest paper my printer will do), which leaves a border of about 18-20mm that’s enough for a handwritten title. However it made it a headache to mount for my last exhibition as the actual area for the window mount became non-standard so I had to get custom mounts made which got expensive. If I’d left them untitled (or printed the image smaller on the paper) I could have just bought off the shelf mounts and saved myself a load of money.

In terms of writing media, if you’re using a pen, you’ll need to use a pigment ink pen. Pencil probably looks better on colour, but as I print black and white I prefer a black pen.

Editioning is a minefield, you might just want to have an open edition to start with and avoid numbering prints unless you have a particular criteria for numbering, i.e. a certain edit, paper type, etc.
 
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Hi David

Why would I say 12x8 is uncommon, as I have already said I have prints made that are 12x8 ;)

What I am referring to is the choice of print size based on the aspect ratio of the sensor, as afteral when composing in the viewfinder that is what you are seeing and in the case of the 5D4 and all Full Frame dSLRs they are 3:2 or print ratio 1.5:1

You may find this page of interest as it shows the (typical) print sizes based on the aspect ratio and as you will 12x8 is perfect for such as produced by the 5D4 (or any other 3:2 aspect ratio sensor camera)

FWIW
My prints from my Canon files, as are the ones from my Olympus files..............of note with these files the aspect ratio is 4:3 but I crop to 3:2 as the 4:3 sensor has the print aspect ratio of 1.33:1

I also crop to square format and have printed 8x8 inch and 10x10 inches

Hope that all helps and is of interest.

PS and in reflection of Andy's post above I have the mounts cut so that there is an even mount 'border' of 50mm on all edges. The mounted 12 x 8inch print is nominally a fit for a 30 x 40cm off the shelf frame.

PPS I have always bought custom cut mounts and of late also bought custom made frames.
 
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Ian
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I would do them all with a border and get people to specifically say if they want the signature on the reverse. Mat mounting a borderless print means that some of the image gets lost behind the mat (it might only me a mm or two but still...). If you supply with a border and people don't like it, they can cut the border off in the mounting process. It makes your process straightforward and you're only ordering one type of print.

Sizewise - I'd say it depends on your pricing. Premium (triple figures up) would be whatever ratio your image ended up at and they get their mount cut to measure. Sub-premium, and you print to a size that is easy to get a frame & mount for. /myopinion
 
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Dael_Pix
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David
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Box Brownie.

Thanks for the link, I needed that. I've been looking for 'popular' sizes this afternoon and haven't found anything decent.
 
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Charles
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Hi all. This is a topic that I am really interested in. I got a monitor calibration tool to get my colours right because I also want to start printing using third party companies and for that I am looking to learn how to do soft proofing in LR or PS.

"I'm considering using board-backed envelopes with corn-starch 'plastic' sleeves and the photo print inside to tone down costs."

Do you have an example? Pardon my English but I don't know what this is. Would like to check it out to have an idea since I am curious.
 
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Charles
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Ok, in my other post I said I always get prints done with borders..... increased size borders if signed LE's.

A4 is 8.3 x 11.7inches ......so the IMO nice sized print for sales of 8x12 inches is not available to you if you use A4 sized papers. For home printing if you want to print that size (or a tad bigger) you need an A3 printer.

Because I use a commercial printer they can print any logical size due that they print on roll of paper.

When say my prints are 8x12inches that is the actual area of the print...... a few will be behind the mount (as I recall that is 2mm hidden off each edge ;) )
What would be a nice printing size? I have been looking into this and the 7x5 seems to be a nice size because you can provide clients with a bigger size, charge a bit more increasing the profit you can make out from this print size.
 
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Charles
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Does it matter?
All the images I upload on theprintspace are cropped to a certain size.

I have actually changed to 12x8
But no doubt you're going to say that is uncommon too.


Below image is what I have so far. Any wording is not set in stone and is only a draft

View attachment 284838
Which situations do you use semi gloss paper? Can you explain what is Gliclee?
 
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9,575
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What would be a nice printing size? I have been looking into this and the 7x5 seems to be a nice size because you can provide clients with a bigger size, charge a bit more increasing the profit you can make out from this print size.
A nice size print now what does that mean as surely that depends on:-
The intended purpose of the print, as in a canvas at 60 x 40 inches is a 'nice' size..........................or as in the 12x8 inches in a mat & frame is 'nice'. In other words "nice" really does depend on the intention and potential clients needs & perceptions ;)

As for 7x5 inches that is an odd ratio as at 1.4:1 it will mean you have to crop images taken with your Canon camera..................yes, of course you can crop and change anything but will it look a "right" composition at the that crop???
 
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Which situations do you use semi gloss paper? Can you explain what is Gliclee?
This page will give you an insight that might help you?
 
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Charles
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But printing at that size, although odd but in terms of potential and perception looks better than a 6"x4" and you can charge more. In terms of composition if you shoot taking that crop factor in mind probably there isn't any problem. I am just starting now thinking about printing and such. If you look at prices a 7x5" costs around £0.80 and a 12x8" costs £2.30. But I think the 12x8" lands in a different category in terms of printing size so probably does not make sense to compare them.

Thanks for that link will take a look.
 
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But printing at that size, although odd but in terms of potential and perception looks better than a 6"x4" and you can charge more. In terms of composition if you shoot taking that crop factor in mind probably there isn't any problem. I am just starting now thinking about printing and such. If you look at prices a 7x5" costs around £0.80 and a 12x8" costs £2.30. But I think the 12x8" lands in a different category in terms of printing size so probably does not make sense to compare them.

Thanks for that link will take a look.
You have not said what subjects you are printing and hence who the prospective buyer might be?

But something to consider....................if the 7x5 inch print is well liked by the buyer, what do you do if they ask for a larger print of the same image???

Do you:-
(a) tell them of the sizes (based on lowest cost options) that are a different aspect ratio and hence a different composition......won't they say "that is not what I asked for....I just want a larger version of what you already sold me....."
or
(b) get a special non-standard print (due to the 1.4:1 aspect ratio already supplied) made at likely higher cost than a more standard sized print?
 
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Charles
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That's actually a good point. If you go by multiples at least that is my understanding maintaining the same ratio the next size is 14x10" and it is a bit more expensive than the 12x8" - another £1 but the size is considerably larger. The line of thought was more or less offer a bit larger image that the standard 6x4" for a slightly higher price. I reckon that 6x4" is the standard size that one is used to.

In this case I am talking about printing portraits and environmental portraits. Small amount of images included offered with nice post-processing/re-touching. So running away of the standard size, something different.
 
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Andy
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Which situations do you use semi gloss paper? Can you explain what is Gliclee?
I use semi-gloss or Matt paper when the prints are going to be framed and therefore behind a reflective (glass or Perspex) surface. There’s nothing stopping you putting a gloss print behind a reflective surface of course but you’ve then got two shiny surfaces.

Giclee is a pretentious word for inkjet prints. Apparently it means ‘to spray’ in French, but it’s a print off an inkjet printer albeit normally a high end one with multiple inks.
 
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Dael_Pix
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1,134
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David
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@CESA

I'm considering using board-backed envelopes with corn-starch 'plastic' sleeves and the photo print inside to tone down costs.
These 'plastic' sleeves are made from corn starch. I believe they are bio-degradeable. (I haven't really looked into it but no doubt there's other plant-based materials that are available.)
After a long think, I've decided to use 'plastic' sleeves placed in board-backed envelopes for my prints. I did source the sleeves but the website is out of stock, so I'll have to look harder in finding another source.

Which situations do you use semi gloss paper? Can you explain what is Gliclee?
I can't answer your first question because all this is new to me. I sent off for a sample pack from a printer and I have chosen to print my images on semi gloss.

With regards to your second question, THIS link may help you, and is where I'm printing my images from.
 
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Dael_Pix
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1,134
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David
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Thanks I'll take a look.

Just ordered 2 prints. A coloured print and a black and white with a border. Should have them by Friday
 
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Dael_Pix
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1,134
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David
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I would do them all with a border and get people to specifically say if they want the signature on the reverse. Mat mounting a borderless print means that some of the image gets lost behind the mat (it might only me a mm or two but still...). If you supply with a border and people don't like it, they can cut the border off in the mounting process. It makes your process straightforward and you're only ordering one type of print.

Sizewise - I'd say it depends on your pricing. Premium (triple figures up) would be whatever ratio your image ended up at and they get their mount cut to measure. Sub-premium, and you print to a size that is easy to get a frame & mount for. /myopinion
As mentioned above I've ordered 2 prints one with and one without a border. To be honest I do think I prefer them being presented with a border as they won't look like a poster..

I'll see how I feel about them when I get them.

(also ordered them in colour and b&w to see what the quality is like and see if I have the colours right)
 
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Jason
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If you print with a border it can be matted and framed either with or without a border - if you print without a border it can only be matted without a border removing purchaser's aesthetic choice.
 
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