Sensible Way To Go About Things?

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nickl360

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I've currently got a Canon 30D and in January I'll be wanting to upgrade my body.

I don't think I can quite afford the Canon 5D mk2 so is the sensible way to go about things to pick up the 7D and gradually build up my L series collection of lenses and then go full frame when the 5D mk3 eventually comes out and the 5D mk2 may go down in price?

The next L series lens I'd want would be the 24-105mm for a walkabout lens to cover most scenario's whilst out and about. Would the cheapest way of getting a 7D + 24-105mm lens by getting a kit? Does the 7D come as a kit with the 24-105 lens?

I'm sure some of you have been through similar though processes, what did you end up doing?
 
I've only seen the 7D with the 18-135 as a kit lens. If your aim is full frame why don't you buy a good second hand 5D Mark I instead of buying another 1.6 crop body?

I have a 24-105 and it's superb and you would then have the spare cash to buy it. It would mate beautifully with a 5D Mk I body.
 
Every time you buy another body you lose money. Keep what you have now and save up for a bit longer and get the body you really want. You'll get it sooner that way :)
 
srichards said:
Every time you buy another body you lose money. Keep what you have now and save up for a bit longer and get the body you really want. You'll get it sooner that way :)
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+1, buy once and buy right. If you want full frame then by buying an intermediate camera you don't really want is wasting cash. Keep an eye out for a good nearly-new 5Dii and you might get there quicker.
 
Buy the lenses you want now, and then wait until you can afford the body you really want
 
You may also want to buy before January.
The VAT goes up in January, so everything (should) be that little more expensive.

What is it that means you have to buy a new body now? Is the 7d really going to fulfil that need, or would a second hand 50d be more suitable.
 
The VAT difference is less the £20 on a £1,000 purchase.. you can save several times more than that just shopping around. It's not a sensible driver for rushing a purchase.

Edit: my guesstimate maths was out, the difference is £21.28
 
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nickl360 said:
The next L series lens I'd want would be the 24-105mm for a walkabout lens to cover most scenario's whilst out and about.
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On a 5D, sure. But on a 7D it's really not wide enough to be an everyday lens.

The 7D isn't really a sensible stopping point on the route from a 30D to a 5D II.

It comes back to why you want to go full-frame, and what you think you could do with a new body (5D I, 5D II, 7D, whatever) that you can't do with your 30D?
 
It comes back to why you want to go full-frame, and what you think you could do with a new body (5D I, 5D II, 7D, whatever) that you can't do with your 30D?
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There is a LOT of FF worshipping that goes on, without actual concrete reasons... the 7D is a great camera, it's the only canon (from the whole range!) that I'd want to change to!

Especially if you like long lens stuff, the 7D may well be a better bet than the 5d2...

Oh, and of course lets you buy cheaper glass if you want - eg the 17-55 IS or even the fantastic tamron 17-50 2.8, as a walkabout standard zoom.
 
itsdavedotnet said:
There is a LOT of FF worshipping that goes on, without actual concrete reasons...
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Um...my reasoning like everyone else's is that the much larger sensor gives a better quality picture with better high ISO performance. Plus you don't see diffraction until you hit the really small apertures.

Actually, I went from a 40D to an older 5D and was shocked by the difference.

If you're wildlifing, however, it's best to stick with a 1.6x crop for the reach.
 
But a FF with a much lower resolution can't make dots that aren't there. Isn't going to be obvious when you blow them up to the same printed size that the FF with for example of 10mp doesn't have the resolution of a 14mp even if that 14mp is on an aps-c sensor? I've never compared output side to side at large printed sizes. Better higher iso performance is another matter though.
 
I guess it depends how much you are going to blow it up (A0?) and what you are shooting. If it's birds, an 18MP crop cam will give you much more reach than a 13MP full frame camera. But landscapes look better on full frame because of the lack of diffraction and the larger pixel pitch, leading to a sharper, cleaner image with less noise.

Don't get caught up in the megapixel hype...shoving more tiny pixels into an already small sensor isn't going to make for the best quality.
 
It's not just about pixels at all. Compare something like a full frame Nikon D3 with 13mp against a crop format 7D with 18mp and the Nikon will blitz it. Because the sensor is more than two and a half times larger.

Full frame is about image quality. That's it really. Other than that, it mostly has disadvantages over croppers, hence their overwhelming popularity. But you won't see that quality benefit unless you output very big - like high quality prints over 15in wide.

Decide whether you really want full frame first, and if you do, get the camera first and then the lenses to go with it. Full frame lenses behave completely differently on crop cameras and when you change, you'll need to shuffle them around anyway.

Or stick with crop format, get the right lenses for that. If you buy right, you'll not lose much money on them. I sold a 40D and three lenses on here, and I lost more on the camera alone than all three lenses. Buy used lenses - good ones like the Canon 17-55 2.8 or 10-22 - and you'll probably lose nothing when the time to change comes.

If you do change ;) A lot of people talk about 'upgrading to full frame' (which it isn't really) even buy some lenses with that change in mind, but never actually do it because the cost isn't justified. But their lens system is compromised by having fudged the issue in the first place.
 
Great comments guys, plenty to think about.

The main reason I've been debating is because I don't think I can stretch to a 5D mk2 unless I come across a decent condition used. Yet I'd be a bit wary paying so much for a used item.

I've only been taking pics for the past 2 years when I picked up a 2nd hand 30D, I got quite in to it and I've done a bit of sports photography for the local magazine where the crop sensor comes in handy however I'm now doing a fair bit of stock photography and anything over ISO 800 on the 30D is extrememly noisy which wouldn't pass QC for stock.

My line of thinking was a 7D to start off with and then when I jack in playing football to concentrate more on photography would be to have a 70-200mm lens on the 7D, gradually built up the L series lens collection and then pick up a full frame with a shorter lens, especially if I ever did event photography I'd have 2 capable bodies with decent lenses.
 
nickl360 said:
Great comments guys, plenty to think about.

The main reason I've been debating is because I don't think I can stretch to a 5D mk2 unless I come across a decent condition used. Yet I'd be a bit wary paying so much for a used item.

I've only been taking pics for the past 2 years when I picked up a 2nd hand 30D, I got quite in to it and I've done a bit of sports photography for the local magazine where the crop sensor comes in handy however I'm now doing a fair bit of stock photography and anything over ISO 800 on the 30D is extrememly noisy which wouldn't pass QC for stock.

My line of thinking was a 7D to start off with and then when I jack in playing football to concentrate more on photography would be to have a 70-200mm lens on the 7D, gradually built up the L series lens collection and then pick up a full frame with a shorter lens, especially if I ever did event photography I'd have 2 capable bodies with decent lenses.
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I know the pixels thing is very seductive, but perhaps you should do some tests, like I did. Went into Jessops with my 40D and shot identical images side by side with that, a 7D and then a 5D2. 24-105L lens, all at f/8, just zoomed to alter the framing. Nothing special, just inside the shop with flash to keep the light identical and eliminate any shake. I then put the card in the shop printer and printed out A4 prints of each, 15in prints, and some small sections blown up to max.

Of the A4 prints, at normal viewing distance, you could not tell them apart. Honestly not. Looking at the 15in prints, taking a close peek at the 7D and 40D you could tell a difference, but mainly because of the better noise (ISO400) from the 7D. But the 5D2 pictures clearly stood out - you didn't need to peek. No noise, smooth tones, more detailed shadows, better sharpness. Just better, all over. Even my wife could see it (which is kinda important ;) ). Looking then at the big crops, the 5D2's better sharpness was not just skin deep :thumbs:

Bottom line is I ended up with a 5D2. I expected the 7D to be better than it was compared to the 40D, and was surprised at how much better the 5D2 was than either. It's a very easy test to do for yourself :)
 
HoppyUK said:
I know the pixels thing is very seductive, but perhaps you should do some tests, like I did. Went into Jessops with my 40D and shot identical images side by side with that, a 7D and then a 5D2. 24-105L lens, all at f/8, just zoomed to alter the framing. Nothing special, just inside the shop with flash to keep the light identical and eliminate any shake. I then put the card in the shop printer and printed out A4 prints of each, 15in prints, and some small sections blown up to max.

Of the A4 prints, at normal viewing distance, you could not tell them apart. Honestly not. Looking at the 15in prints, taking a close peek at the 7D and 40D you could tell a difference, but mainly because of the better noise (ISO400) from the 7D. But the 5D2 pictures clearly stood out - you didn't need to peek. No noise, smooth tones, more detailed shadows, better sharpness. Just better, all over. Even my wife could see it (which is kinda important ;) ). Looking then at the big crops, the 5D2's better sharpness was not just skin deep :thumbs:

Bottom line is I ended up with a 5D2. I expected the 7D to be better than it was compared to the 40D, and was surprised at how much better the 5D2 was than either. It's a very easy test to do for yourself :)
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That really is good advice ..... Thanks Richard :thumbs:
 
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