Shadow free images

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Chris D

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Chris
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Hello All. I am trying to photograph some coins and medals. The images are to be used as part of the catalogue of a small museum and may at some stage be used on the museum website. I am laying the items on white card and photographing from directly above. The problem is all the images come out with a shadow around the item. I have tried lighting the subject from different angles including from above using a pair of spotlights, a ring light and a combination of both but the shadows are always there. Can anyone suggest how I can get rid of them or at least make them less noticeable? My aim is to make sure the shadow does not distract the viewer from the main subject.

Many thanks
 
No!

If you manage to get rid of the shadows, you’ll not be able to see the detail on the coin.

Photography 101, shadows create texture; no shadow = no detail.

The best you can do is carefully manage the shadows, there’ll be loads of YouTube tutorials for photographing coins, id start by switching to a black velvet background.
 
I think he means the shadows on the white card Phil.

In which case Phil would be in a better position to advise than me but increasing separation/distance between the coins and the background would help. As would diffusing the light with a soft box which would produce a softer shadow.

Try photographing a coin standing up on its edge with no background and the only shadow you will have is across the floor/surface you are shooting on.

Now remove the floor/surface* and voila no shadow.

*Ok you can’t defy the laws of physics but I’d bet there’s lots of tricks such as suspending in a string and removing in ps etc.
 
Brazo said:
I think he means the shadows on the white card Phil.
Click to expand...
He does; but shadow is necessary for the image, the easy fix to remove the shadow on the white background is to use a black background as I posted. ;)
 
Brazo said:
Ok you can’t defy the laws of physics but I’d bet there’s lots of tricks such as suspending in a string and removing in ps etc.
Click to expand...
Cutting out the coin and replacing the BG is also an ‘easy’ fix. But easy is relative and it depends how many he’s doing.
 
My comfort zone ;)

As said shadows define and are needed in order for any ornamentation on the face of the coin/medal to be apparent.

I assume you are shooting digital, in which case forget about background, shoot on a dark grey or black, not white. It is a simple matter to strip out the background and place it on whatever colour is needed, shooting on white simply creates problems.

Then you need to concentrate on your light. Precedence dictates that your light should come from top left of your subject and for successful lighting I would use a scrim or soft box that is large relative to the subject and to star with angled down at about 45 degrees and at about 10 o clock, adjust this till you get good definition of the surface ornamentation and a pleasingly lit subject, use pieces of white card opposite your source to brighten the shadows to reveal any detail that were hidden.

Then simply make a selection in PP and remove the background...
 
If you want a white background,simply lay the coins on a sheet of glass, raised above the white card, and light the card separately.
This avoids the need for PP work and produces perfect results, quickly.
 
Some people shoot on a white shadowless background by putting the coins or whatever on a white translucent surface lit from below, on some kind of tiny pedestal obscured by the coin so you can lose focus on the white surface. If you're shooting the coin at an angle to include edge detail then that will be a big soft light source tending to fill in textural details.
 
Wow, thank you guys for all the replies. Yes it was the shadow on the card background I was trying to get rid of as opposed to any on the coin itself. I did try all sorts of angles and combinations of my limited light sources but found the lighting angles that gave the best detail seemed to cast the worst shadows onto the card. I have been asked to use a white background so I am a bit stuck there. But I will certainly try the glass idea and the using white card to reflect the light instead of a second lamp. Will have a play around over the weekend and let you know how I get along. Thanks again to all for your comments and advice.
 
Chris D said:
Wow, thank you guys for all the replies. Yes it was the shadow on the card background I was trying to get rid of as opposed to any on the coin itself. I did try all sorts of angles and combinations of my limited light sources but found the lighting angles that gave the best detail seemed to cast the worst shadows onto the card. I have been asked to use a white background so I am a bit stuck there. But I will certainly try the glass idea and the using white card to reflect the light instead of a second lamp. Will have a play around over the weekend and let you know how I get along. Thanks again to all for your comments and advice.
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No, you won't get a white background by lighting it with 'spare' light from the light used on the coin - due to the effect of the Inverse Square Law it will have lost most of its power by the time it reaches the background. You'll need to light the background separately..
Garry Edwards said:
If you want a white background,simply lay the coins on a sheet of glass, raised above the white card, and light the card separately.
This avoids the need for PP work and produces perfect results, quickly.
Click to expand...
 
Just try to ground yourself with what we’ve written here, lighting isn’t mystical, and you can’t trick it into behaving differently.

Light adheres to the laws of physics:
So you need shadows for your coin image to work.
That’ll create a shadow on your white background.

The 2 solutions are:
Move the background further away, which will require a lot of discipline, perfectly clean glass and a light source for the white BG.
Shoot on a different colour bg and cut it out in post. (Industry std for this kind of shot)

Of course what you choose will depend on your personality and skills.
 
Garry Edwards said:
If you want a white background,simply lay the coins on a sheet of glass, raised above the white card, and light the card separately.
This avoids the need for PP work and produces perfect results, quickly.
Click to expand...
Yes indeed... I did feel that the OP was unskilled in lighting and lighting the background separately brings with it additional lighting problems, not least with what seems to be limited equipment achieving the correct amount of light on the background and having it the right distance in order to avoid any spill and subsequent loss of contrast. Hence one diffused light source from top left with fill provided by a couple of white cards and then cut the coin/medal out, it isn't a complicated shape so with due care should be easy to manage...
 
To get rid of the edge shadow, just place the coin on a raised pillar, something like a toilet roll core - you get the idea. That's probably how I'd do it, quick and easy (though there are some other/similar ways suggested above) and then do an auto-cutout in post processing to make the background any colour you want.

I also like mjmountain's suggestion of using a tablet as a simple white background solution to get the whole thing done in-camera - good idea if there are dozens of coins. You'd need to balance the light on the coin carefully against the brightness of the screen, perhaps the colour too, and maybe use a small pillar to ensure the dots on the tablet screen were fully out of focus, but it's a neat and effective trick (basically using the tablet as a lightbox).
 
HoppyUK said:
To get rid of the edge shadow, just place the coin on a raised pillar, something like a toilet roll core - you get the idea. That's probably how I'd do it, quick and easy (though there are some other/similar ways suggested above) and then do an auto-cutout in post processing to make the background any colour you want.

I also like mjmountain's suggestion of using a tablet as a simple white background solution to get the whole thing done in-camera - good idea if there are dozens of coins. You'd need to balance the light on the coin carefully against the brightness of the screen, perhaps the colour too, and maybe use a small pillar to ensure the dots on the tablet screen were fully out of focus, but it's a neat and effective trick (basically using the tablet as a lightbox).
Click to expand...
Yes, that's a perfectly valid way of doing it, but personally I prefer my method.
Many years ago, I was saddled with a similar job (I got it because nobody else wanted it and I was the junior) and it took, from memory, about 9 weeks solid to shoot the collection. This was pre-digital and the workflow needed to produce images that were right.
The method was to use a piece of plate glass, suspended on pillars. I had to photograph both the reverse and obverse, fortunately nearly all of the coins were duplicated so this was easy, in the same shot. I scratched a line on the underside of the glass to mark the position of the two left hand edges, this wasn't a problem because the very limited DOF at macro distance ensured that these marks were invisible.

The problem with using something like a toilet roll holder is that one size won't fit all sizes of coins, and also it tends to move between shots. A sheet of glass is semi-permanent and just easier, from a consistency viewpoint - but either method is valid.
 
Just to add, while the emphasis here is on removing the edge shadow as per the question, the key to a good result is the lighting on the coin itself which needs to be directional from the side so that highlights and shadows show full detail - as the OP mentioned. That's the priority and whatever solution for the background is chosen it should not be allowed to compromise that - basically the answer is to treat the lighting of the coin and the background as two separate subjects.
 
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Hi All, just a line to say thanks to everyone for the suggestions. I had a trial and error session which was very interesting and worthwhile. In the end the set up that gave me the best results was with the coin placed on a sheet of white tissue paper which in turn was laid on a piece of glass and lit from underneath. A large soft light was placed above and slightly behind the coin. Shooting from the front and with the camera at a slight angle got rid of the halo shadowing and gave great detail of the coin face as well as reasonable edge detail.


Thanks again for all the help. I am new to this type of photography so doubtless there will be many more questions to come.
 
Garry Edwards said:
If you want a white background,simply lay the coins on a sheet of glass, raised above the white card, and light the card separately.
This avoids the need for PP work and produces perfect results, quickly.
Click to expand...


^This. Or shoot on back lit white perspex.
 
Also creates depth
Phil V said:
No!

If you manage to get rid of the shadows, you’ll not be able to see the detail on the coin.

Photography 101, shadows create texture; no shadow = no detail.

The best you can do is carefully manage the shadows, there’ll be loads of YouTube tutorials for photographing coins, id start by switching to a black velvet background.
Click to expand...
 
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