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I wonder if these 'masters of composition' consciously think about any of the academic explanations/deconstructions of what they've done when they're framing/arranging shots?
I wondered that too. Reminded me of Weston's "consulting the rules of composition is a bit like consulting the law of gravity before going out for a walk" or whatever it was. I get the feeling, like with any art, some find it easier than others.
 
I wondered that too. Reminded me of Weston's "consulting the rules of composition is a bit like consulting the law of gravity before going out for a walk" or whatever it was. I get the feeling, like with any art, some find it easier than others.
There is a set of overlays in Lightroom that can be toggled on and off in the cropping tool. The golden spiral or whatever it's called and others. By scrolling through them and flipping them you can usually find one that just about 'fits' any picture! :D

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I wonder if these 'masters of composition' consciously think about any of the academic explanations/deconstructions of what they've done when they're framing/arranging shots?
Firstly, I'm not sure that the books I listed would be considered academic. The reason I like them is that they are very practical, and reflect some of the points being made in the video that started this conversation. As examples the books discuss things like how you frame and light a shot to demonstrate that a particular person (among many) is in charge. Or, If you have a man and women at a table, how do you compose and light them to suggest this is a business meeting, a wedding anniversary or a first date. People like these authors who work at the top end of the film industry really are masters in telling stories and creating mood through composition.

But for your question, I don't there is an easy answer to that. I would argue that the explanation of why one picture works and another doesn't work as well as another, can be down to "composition". But by that I don't just mean the "placement" of the subject matter in the frame, but the balance of all the elements that a picture is composed of..

So, I don't think a "master of composition" can consciously think about applying all the nuances of academic explanations and deconstruction when they are framing/arranging shots, because it's too complicated and the composition "on the day" has to driven by the interaction between the subject, the artist and what the artist is trying to say.,

Rather, I think they are more likely to subconsciously, based on experience and previous analysis of what they have found to work and not work, compose instinctively. Not in the true meaning of instinct, but more in the sense of having enough experience to do something without thinking about it.

Edward Weston talked about adjusting his composition until he could hear a Bach fugue.

Cartier Bresson, who trained as a painter, wrote that he would analyse all his photographs after he had taken them (using Dynamic Symmetry principles) to work out why some worked better than others, but never consciously thought about composition while taking pictures.

In contrast to this, if you x-ray some of the paintings from master painters there are several (maybe many, I don't really know) where you can see they started the painting by drawing a dynamic symmetry grid on the canvas to guide the composition.

As I am no master of composition, I sometimes use the principles of dynamic symmetry "in the field" to try and help work out why I can't get a composition to feel right.
 
Edward Weston talked about adjusting his composition until he could hear a Bach fugue.
Pretentious git ! :LOL:
Cartier Bresson, who trained as a painter, wrote that he would analyse all his photographs after he had taken them (using Dynamic Symmetry principles) to work out why some worked better than others, but never consciously thought about composition while taking pictures.
(y)
In contrast to this, if you x-ray some of the paintings from master painters there are several (maybe many, I don't really know) where you can see they started the painting by drawing a dynamic symmetry grid on the canvas to guide the composition.
Quite a few show a different composition, or at least reveal how the composition has evolved. A bit like looking at contact sheets.
 
Quite a few show a different composition, or at least reveal how the composition has evolved. A bit like looking at contact sheets.
Yes, it's interesting but maybe not unexpected, even when there isn't a dynamic symmetry starting point, But one of the benefits of a Dynamic Symmetry approach is that you can make big changes to the composition while still staying within the dynamic symmetry framework. It's one of the reasons I find it useful.

Within a single photograph, of course, the composition can still change at the processing stage. Even if you don't crop, you can still change the balance of a photograph by changing the relative weights of colour, tone, contrast and detail. But of course, unlike x-rayed paintings, or contact sheets, this evolution is never seen
 
No video to post but for those of you that have Netflix (in the UK), Squaring the Circle (IMDB link) is a really good documentary that I thoroughly enjoyed today.

It's about the design company behind some of the most iconic album covers - especially the Dark Side of the Moon (which wasn't photography). However the stories behind the images of some of those other album covers made me chuckle. The concept of having a vision or idea for something, then going and making it happen is something I hope to explore in the next zine exchange. I personally found it quite inspiring.

A little surreal at times (it's an Anton Corbijn movie/doc after all) but well worth a watch IMO.
 
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No video to post but for those of you that have Netflix (in the UK), Squaring the Circle (IMDB link) is a really good documentary that I thoroughly enjoyed today.

It's about the design company behind some of the most iconic album covers - especially the Dark Side of the Moon (which wasn't photography). However the stories behind the images of some of those other album covers made me chuckle. The concept of having a vision or idea for something, then going and making it happen is something I hope to explore in the next zine exchange. I personally found it quite inspiring.

A little surreal at times (it's an Anton Corbijn movie/doc after all) but well worth a watch IMO.

Thanks for the head's up Ian. I have the Hipgnosis book, Vinyl . Album . Cover . Art, so this will be a good watch, I think.
 
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I've enjoyed watching this interview with Mark Power over the past few days. The whole interview is broken into smaller chunks based on different works, so you don't have to watch it all in one go.

I enjoyed that. What struck me most (probably because it's relevant to some of my thinking at present) was that he was influenced to abandon painting by the immediate reaction a McCullin exhibition provoked in someone because it made him think that photographs don't need an explanation to be understood, then went on to make a name for himself taking photographs that need explaining to be fully understood because they're metaphorical!
 
No video to post but for those of you that have Netflix (in the UK), Squaring the Circle (IMDB link) is a really good documentary that I thoroughly enjoyed today.

It's about the design company behind some of the most iconic album covers - especially the Dark Side of the Moon (which wasn't photography). However the stories behind the images of some of those other album covers made me chuckle. The concept of having a vision or idea for something, then going and making it happen is something I hope to explore in the next zine exchange. I personally found it quite inspiring.

A little surreal at times (it's an Anton Corbijn movie/doc after all) but well worth a watch IMO.
I just added it to my list. I'll probably watch it tomorrow night. I'll check in when I do
 
What he says about finding locations and then returning to them when the conditions are right is something I'd like to try and take on board, as well as simply enjoying the experience of being out instead of being highly focused on finding photographs. I'm good a spotting photographs and sometimes miss out on the experience of being somewhere as a result.

I've seen the photographers work previously when he was talking about his Little Black Dots bothy project. I wish I'd bought a copy when I had chance.

This looks like your neck of the woods @Topsy :)

View: https://youtu.be/6N0DvgbddHo?si=ijr4EoqD1O33feSj
 
What he says about finding locations and then returning to them when the conditions are right is something I'd like to try and take on board, as well as simply enjoying the experience of being out instead of being highly focused on finding photographs. I'm good a spotting photographs and sometimes miss out on the experience of being somewhere as a result.

I've seen the photographers work previously when he was talking about his Little Black Dots bothy project. I wish I'd bought a copy when I had chance.

This looks like your neck of the woods @Topsy :)

View: https://youtu.be/6N0DvgbddHo?si=ijr4EoqD1O33feSj

Yes great work, I have Black Dots, and the Dartmoor Zine - both excellent work.
 
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