Shooting B&W for first time - quick question

southernjessie

southernjessie

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I just wanted to pick your brains please.

I'll be shooting either Tri-X or HP5 with my Nikon FE2 soon - the first time I've ever shot B&W film. Should I shoot them at box speed 400 or push 1-2 stops?

It won't be for fast action but mainly environmental portraits (natural light), still life and street scenes. The available light may be a factor, for example, if I'm shooting where there are harsh shadows because of the sun.

Is the main downside to pushing film that it loses some clarity and produces extra grain? How do you folk normally shoot these two films?
 
Box speed for sure. Once you have seen your results, you may wish to push it a bit, but I wouldn't recommend it on your first.
 
Have you considered using Ilford Delta 3200 / Kodak Tmax P3200 and shooting them at 1600asa? You can then develop them as normal without any change to development.

Otherwise, if you have to push HP5+ in my experience it handles it very well. I've shot it at 800asa & 1600asa and it retains a great deal of tonality without too much extra grain being apparent.

@Peter B & @Sky give good advice if this is your first time with B&W film though.
 
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I'm sure someone with more knowledge than me will step in here but my experience...

When you push film you under expose and over develop. This gets less light [information] to your shadows (making them darker/possibly black) and the over development can "push" the highlights further out. This generally results in a more contrasty scene.

Pulling a film is the opposite - over expose and under develop. This results in reduced contrast as you get detail in the shadows from over exposure, and the reduced development keeps the highlights reigned in.

I've never experienced loss of clarity when pushing either HP5 or Tri-X. However the grain is noticeable, especially once you start to push to 1600 (2 stops).

What should you do? It depends on your camera/lens, available light, and desired outcome.

I generally push when the light is bad, or I don't have a fast lens, or I need a fast shutter speed, or I want contrast, or any combination of these.
I generally pull when I want less contrast - mostly on bright sunny days because a) that's where the contrast lies and b) the abundance of light makes over exposing easier.

Also, lol as I was typing, but Nige sugested the 3200 speed films. This is a great idea, and there's a lot of cheap P3200 floating around at the moment as it's expired from the first batch Kodak made. 1 yr OOD though is fine. It *is* grainy though.
 
Thanks guys - I actually do have a roll of TMAX 3200 as well...so maybe set the camera to 1600 and just develop as 3200? (I don't develop myself but will send to AG to do)

If I use the others I'll take your advice and just shoot at box speed. As long as I don't underexpose too badly it should be ok - I'm assuming both films are pretty flexible and you can overexpose 1-2 stops like Portra?
 
Most b&w neg film has enough l’attitude to absorb some quite serious exposure errors.
Personally I wouldn’t get too finicky about being exact..... there are too many other variables to take into account ( inaccurate shutter speeds, developing etc etc)
Box speed is a a very good place to start ( for obvious reasons) .
From there you will see what the film has to offer and can adjust your shooting/ metering/ developing styles to suit your own tastes.
 
Peter B said:
There'll be others with different opinions, but I would always suggest shooting at box speed when first using a film. Varying the iso can come later once you've seen the original results.
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^^^This^^^
 
RaglanSurf said:
^^^This^^^
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:agree:

However, if you want a general purpose black and white film with a bit of flexibility then have a look at Ilford XP2, it's a C41 process film (uses the same processing as most standard colour print film) so it's a bit cheaper to develop than 'conventional' black and white. The advantage being that you can shoot it at the box speed of 400 ISO in dull conditions, but on a sunny day you can shoot it at 200 ISO, as this helps stop the shadows from blocking up. Now here's the good part, you can change between 400 and 200 ISO on the same roll of film and have it developed as standard, with no pushing or pulling. Which can be handy in spring and autumn when the light is more changeable.
 
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southernjessie said:
It won't be for fast action but mainly environmental portraits (natural light), still life and street scenes. The available light may be a factor, for example, if I'm shooting where there are harsh shadows because of the sun.
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as has been said id shoot at box speed ,,,and id also use it in manual instead of A priority if you've got harsh shadow and bright sunlight in the frame,,and then expose for the shadows more than the brighty bits .
 
donut said:
as has been said id shoot at box speed ,,,and id also use it in manual instead of A priority if you've got harsh shadow and bright sunlight in the frame,,and then expose for the shadows more than the brighty bits .
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Subject to the camera having such features, you can use auto metering but meter for the shadows and use the exposure lock to recompose the image, or work out the difference and dial in the necessary exposure compensation. The camera's meter should get it right more often and far quicker than you will shooting in full manual exposure.

However, if shooting B&W for the first time then I'd keep things as simple as possible, so I learned from what I'd done, so it can be replicated or avoided in future, as required. :)
 
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when i say manual metering i mean as opposed to using the aperture priority ,,,point camera at darker area ,,,set exposure with fingers recompose then shoot
 
Thanks again everyone - much appreciated.

Btw - I may be in the minority but I use manual metering when I shoot film and digital.

I just like complete control over everything. I got used to doing this when I first learned about exposure and using a DSLR. I know I can do this in aperture priority using EC but for me shutter speed is probably more important. When shooting digital I change the ISO in different light to try and keep it as low as possible - having IBIS helps with this for non-moving objects. When shooting film I try to overexpose as much as I can, even if it's just one stop.
 
donut said:
when i say manual metering i mean as opposed to using the aperture priority ,,,point camera at darker area ,,,set exposure with fingers recompose then shoot
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heh... I thought I was the only one that used back button metering :)
 
southernjessie said:
When shooting film I try to overexpose as much as I can, even if it's just one stop.
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Be careful if you try slide film, it's usually best shot 'straight', or exposed for the highlights, unless you want bleached out highlights that you can't recover in Lightroom or Photoshop. You've got a bit more leeway with shadow detail, but often it's a case of either avoiding high contrast scenes or choosing which one you love the most before you press the shutter!
 
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Yep - thanks for that. I had read about that but I'm happy with colour negative and B&W at the moment, which gives much more flexibility. I've shot Portra 400, Fuji Superia 400, Kodak Gold 200, Ektar 100, ColorPlus 200 and Ultramax 400 so far and the only ones I didn't really like that much were Ultramax and Colorplus. I might try Velvia next summer :)

Mr Badger said:
Be careful if you try slide film, it's usually best shot 'straight', or exposed for the highlights, unless you want bleached out highlights that you can't recover in Lightroom or Photoshop. You've got a bit more leeway with shadow detail, but often it's a case of either avoiding high contrast scenes or choosing which one you love the most before you press the shutter!
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southernjessie said:
Yep - thanks for that. I had read about that but I'm happy with colour negative and B&W at the moment, which gives much more flexibility. I've shot Portra 400, Fuji Superia 400, Kodak Gold 200, Ektar 100, ColorPlus 200 and Ultramax 400 so far and the only ones I didn't really like that much were Ultramax and Colorplus. I might try Velvia next summer :)
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Portra 800 is worth a go too, if you can stand the cost. I quite like Portra 160 too. As for B&W, give some XP2 a try and next summer don't forget to try some Fuji Acros 100 for some fine-grained deliciousness. (y)
 
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