Shooting in manual.

Matt Sayle

Matt Sayle

2017MSA Young Photographer of the Year(Motorsport)
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Matt Sayle
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I am tempted to give manual a go at Oulton tomorrow. Any tips on shooting in manual??? How do I set it up etc. All adivce welcomed. I will be doing motorsport shots if that helps specifiy your adivce :)

Thanks
Matt
 
To set it up you change the dial to manual, then set the shutterspeed and aperture to how you want them. Usually if the little arrow in your view finder is over 0 (on the -2__-1__0__1__2 scale) it will be properly exposed.

However for sports, or generally anything that you can't reshoot (badge shots would be OK) I'd use Av or Tv to make sure you get the right exposure.
 
It all depends whether you want to freeze movement, pan with the action and what body/lens combo you will be using. How far will you be away from the action?

Please give us some more info:thumbs:
 
Craikeybaby said:
To set it up you change the dial to manual, then set the shutterspeed and aperture to how you want them. Usually if the little arrow in your view finder is over 0 (on the -2__-1__0__1__2 scale) it will be properly exposed.

However for sports, or generally anything that you can't reshoot (badge shots would be OK) I'd use Av or Tv to make sure you get the right exposure.
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Well I just thought it maybe worth an attempt during the 4 hour endutance race to spice things up a bit :lol:

I will use TV for all the other shots, though :)

Thank you :)
 
antonroland said:
It all depends whether you want to freeze movement, pan with the action and what body/lens combo you will be using. How far will you be away from the action?

Please give us some more info:thumbs:
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Well I will be at focal length 100-300mm, trying reallllllly slow pans with the 400D.
 
Craikeybaby said:
To set it up you change the dial to manual, then set the shutterspeed and aperture to how you want them. Usually if the little arrow in your view finder is over 0 (on the -2__-1__0__1__2 scale) it will be properly exposed.

However for sports, or generally anything that you can't reshoot (badge shots would be OK) I'd use Av or Tv to make sure you get the right exposure.
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Agree and disagree.

Tricky lighting scenarios might dictate over or underexposure so following the light meter might not give you what you want.

Start in TV and select a shutter speed that will work for what you want to achieve (Freeze/pan etc) and then use that aperture in Manual.

Fine tune from there
 
I suppose rather than properly exposed I should say exposed as it would be in Tv...
 
antonroland said:
Agree and disagree.

Tricky lighting scenarios might dictate over or underexposure so following the light meter might not give you what you want.

Start in TV and select a shutter speed that will work for what you want to achieve (Freeze/pan etc) and then use that aperture in Manual.

Fine tune from there
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When I go below 1/60 it over exposes wildly so I wanted to correct it in manaul. Thank you for the adivce.

Craikeybaby said:
I suppose rather than properly exposed I should say exposed as it would be in Tv...
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Yeah, I knew what you meant.
 
Matt Sayle said:
Well I will be at focal length 100-300mm, trying reallllllly slow pans with the 400D.
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If it is really slow you want I would keep the shutter to no faster than 1/100. 400 ISO should then give you adequate DOF.

That is my best thumb-suck for now:)
 
From there it all depends on the light conditions at the time.
 
Craikeybaby said:
To set it up you change the dial to manual, then set the shutterspeed and aperture to how you want them. Usually if the little arrow in your view finder is over 0 (on the -2__-1__0__1__2 scale) it will be properly exposed.

However for sports, or generally anything that you can't reshoot (badge shots would be OK) I'd use Av or Tv to make sure you get the right exposure.
Click to expand...

If all you do when you shoot manual is make the little arrow move over the 0 you may as well shoot in P, Av or Tv as you will be getting exactly the same results. I'm never quite sure why people get so excited about shooting in 'Full Manual' when all they are doing is exactly what the camera would all on it's own?

I can only see the relevance of manual when you are trying to achieve a level of control beyond that which the auto/semi-auto settings can offer. For example when under tricky lighting conditions that may trick the onboard sensors or when trying to be creative with under/over exposure.

It seems to me alot of people see shooting 'Fully Manuall' as some sort of badge of honour, fare play to you if you can do it with an ancient camera with no sensor assistance but otherwise stop kidding yourself.
 
Alex has a very valid point IMO.

Why not take a base meter reading in Tv mode and then select those settings in Manual mode. Providing the exposure is okay for what you want (adjust as necessary) when you want to change either shutter or aperture just remember to adjust the other in the opposite direction by the same amount. Shooting in manual isn't that hard.
 
OK, just did a few tests...1Ds Mk II with 70-200/2.8 at 200, IS on and in mode 2, snapped a car driving past at about 20m or so...I am clearly useless at panning, need to practise this...

At 100 ISO and 1/60 shutter I got an f of 7.1 in moderate blue sky daylight about an hour or so before golden light.

The B/G is blurred but not completely out.

Will try a few more and see if I can get something worth posting
 
a1ex2001 said:
If all you do when you shoot manual is make the little arrow move over the 0 you may as well shoot in P, Av or Tv as you will be getting exactly the same results. I'm never quite sure why people get so excited about shooting in 'Full Manual' when all they are doing is exactly what the camera would all on it's own?

I can only see the relevance of manual when you are trying to achieve a level of control beyond that which the auto/semi-auto settings can offer. For example when under tricky lighting conditions that may trick the onboard sensors or when trying to be creative with under/over exposure.

It seems to me alot of people see shooting 'Fully Manuall' as some sort of badge of honour, fare play to you if you can do it with an ancient camera with no sensor assistance but otherwise stop kidding yourself.
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I am not doing it to brag. I am doing it get some really slow pans and not over-exposed blurs :lol:

Kev M said:
Alex has a very valid point IMO.

Why not take a base meter reading in Tv mode and then select those settings in Manual mode. Providing the exposure is okay for what you want (adjust as necessary) when you want to change either shutter or aperture just remember to adjust the other in the opposite direction by the same amount. Shooting in manual isn't that hard.
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I was just going to try it ;)

antonroland said:
OK, just did a few tests...1Ds Mk II with 70-200/2.8 at 200, IS on and in mode 2, snapped a car driving past at about 20m or so...I am clearly useless at panning, need to practise this...

At 100 ISO and 1/60 shutter I got an f of 7.1 in moderate blue sky daylight about an hour or so before golden light.

The B/G is blurred but not completely out.

Will try a few more and see if I can get something worth posting
Click to expand...
Look forward to the results :D
 
a1ex2001 said:
I'm never quite sure why people get so excited about shooting in 'Full Manual' when all they are doing is exactly what the camera would all on it's own?
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That is exactly it right there. Doing it yourself.

Fair enough, why buy all the gadgetry and not use it, but in AV or TV the results and general colour in the shot can vary greatly as the metering changes rapidly when shooting sport and similar moving subjects.

Yes it is a bit of a Tarzan move but very rewarding when you get it down.;)
 
I agree with Alex. You can always try bracketing (if that's an option on the 400D, sorry I'm the other manufacturer)
 
antonroland said:
That is exactly it right there. Doing it yourself.

Fair enough, why buy all the gadgetry and not use it, but in AV or TV the results and general colour in the shot can vary greatly as the metering changes rapidly when shooting sport and similar moving subjects.

Yes it is a bit of a Tarzan move but very rewarding when you get it down.;)
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If you read my post I said I have no problem with people using it when appropriate, ie challenging chnging light conditions, my issue is with people who just adjust the settings so the arrow in the viewfinder is above the zero as this is exactly what the camera does normally and you just manually altering the settings to what it thinks they should be.

I do occasionally flick the camera over to full manual but I don't see it as some holy grail badge of honour thing and I certainly don't do it just to put an arrow above a zero, thats what computers are for!

Matt Sayle said:
I am not doing it to brag. I am doing it get some really slow pans and not over-exposed blurs :lol:
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Surely you could still do this in Tv mode just by setting the slow shutter speed that you desire? It's good to learn and experiment but don't look to manual mode as some sort of photgraphy Nirvana.
 
a1ex2001 said:
If you read my post I said I have no problem with people using it when appropriate, ie challenging chnging light conditions, my issue is with people who just adjust the settings so the arrow in the viewfinder is above the zero as this is exactly what the camera does normally and you just manually altering the settings to what it thinks they should be.

I do occasionally flick the camera over to full manual but I don't see it as some holy grail badge of honour thing and I certainly don't do it just to put an arrow above a zero, thats what computers are for!



Surely you could still do this in Tv mode just by setting the slow shutter speed that you desire? It's good to learn and experiment but don't look to manual mode as some sort of photgraphy Nirvana.
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Whoa there big boy...:D

I did read your post and I did not attack your point of view.

I think we are also talking around one another here as what you are describing sounds more like Auto Exposure Compensation than purely shooting Manual.

If you did much photography before TTL metering you will know that TTL metering is not all it is cracked up to be and it is far better to understand how it affects exposure rather than simply to follow the needle indicator.

What exactly do you mean by putting an arrow above the zero?
 
I don't know if this would be of any use, but maybe if you take a look at the EXIF data of successful photos that you have taken with other modes, this could give you a head start on how settings have worked in the past.

You could go with a list of settings to try manually and see what works.

S
 
a1ex2001 said:
..............I do occasionally flick the camera over to full manual but I don't see it as some holy grail badge of honour thing and I certainly don't do it just to put an arrow above a zero, thats what computers are for!
............................
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There is a little more to it than lining up the needle with a zero.:eek:
 
Sorry Matt

All my efforts are rather unsatisfactory. Not of much use to you for this conversation but I think I will practise some panning over the weekend:D
 
When you set to manual you are NOT doing exactly the same as the camera in AV/Tv otherwise it would be pointless. There are situations that those modes cannot handle.

Matt .. your right to learn how to shoot in manual. I would not advocate using it all the time but its better to ahve the knowledge for when you will need it.

The best time (IMHO) to teach yourself manual is in stable lighting conditions. not changing.

Set to spot metering, Point your camera at the track area you are going to be shooting at. I am guessing the track is grey or a simmilar nutueral colour. Change your camera settings until it is showing a perfect exposure ie pointer at center of line... (Yes just like AV/Tv would but read on)

Now... when a car comes along you will have the right exposure.. if a black car or a silver car with sunlight shining off it or a white car or a multicolour car... you will get the same constant exposure.. If a car is coming over a hill (I dunno I aint been to a race) and your shot is all bright sky and sunshine with a small part of it being the car..... your car wont be a black blob it will be exposed properly.. BUT the camera will be showing under/over exposed and maybe all over the place... You have to IGNORE that the camera is telling you your using the wrong exposure and trust that the settings you took are correct.

Thats using Manual

If you simply set the camera to the same as AV/Tv or wahetevr all the time its pointless. Once more.. there are situations those modes cannot handle and manual will be needed rather than miss the shot.
 
namllihs said:
There is a little more to it than lining up the needle with a zero.:eek:
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you are quite correct but alot of people seem to take pride in adjusting the aperture and shutter speed so the cameras metering system tells them they have what it thinks is the correct exposure which they then call shooting 'fully manual'. If you shooting on manual for a good reason you will be taking little notice of what the camera thinks as you will be aiming for something specific.

antonroland said:
Whoa there big boy...:D

I did read your post and I did not attack your point of view.

I think we are also talking around one another here as what you are describing sounds more like Auto Exposure Compensation than purely shooting Manual.

If you did much photography before TTL metering you will know that TTL metering is not all it is cracked up to be and it is far better to understand how it affects exposure rather than simply to follow the needle indicator.

Hats off to Kipax for explaining a sensible approach to manual and how its shooting what you want not what the camera tells you.

What exactly do you mean by putting an arrow above the zero?
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Appologies for any offence, I think we do see this the same way, TTL metering is indeed not perfect allthough these days it id pretty damn good.

The arrow above the zero thing comes from people using manual mode to set the shutter and aperture speed and then checking it against what the camera meters they then adjust it until the cameras meter says they are getting the correct exposure in which case they may as well have shot in p mode and adjusted until they had the nearest to there desired combination.
 
a1ex2001 said:
you are quite correct but alot of people seem to take pride in adjusting the aperture and shutter speed so the cameras metering system tells them they have what it thinks is the correct exposure which they then call shooting 'fully manual'. .
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Who are all these people?
 
a1ex2001 said:
The arrow above the zero thing comes from people using manual mode to set the shutter and aperture speed and then checking it against what the camera meters they then adjust it until the cameras meter says they are getting the correct exposure in which case they may as well have shot in p mode and adjusted until they had the nearest to there desired combination.
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but thats not how manual works.. I am getting confused.. is that how you think manual works or how you think other people think it works.
 
Matt Sayle said:
Ok, will play and see what is waht. Just thoght there may have been a key technique or something :lol:
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There is is called practice and experiance.

But i choose the shutterspeed i want for a given effect.

The rest comes from experiance and loaction, but the next step would be DOF (f-stop), then iso as required to get the exposure required. Although for slow shutter pans you can select vitually any f-stop, provided your not get fences in frame.

For slow pans with decent light you may need to go to say 1/60, f22, at iso 100, but on a dull day at 1/60, you could get away with f4, at iso 400. I have no idea how good the 400d is at noise, but if you finding you cant go higher on the ISO front then you'll have to either back the f to 2.8 (if you can) or lower the shutters even further.

To get the most for manually exposing you will need to try and get your head what each shutter speed, ISO and f-stop settings have. Something i couldnt explain.

ANd learn how to read the historgrams.
 
a1ex2001 said:
Well you've got Crikeybaby in this thread advocating it and I see it quite alot on here, gets my goat
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I think I should get someone to proof read my posts so that what I type actually comes out as what I'm thinking.

I was talking about using the meter to set the exposure before you start shooting, not every shot, as there is no way that would work in a motor sport setting.

Shooting digital I must admit I look at the needle a lot less in manual mode than I did on my FM2 as it is easier to check the exposure on the LCD...
 
Mike Hoyer said:
Try lowering the ISO. Failing that there is just too much light, and there's nothing you can do.
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ND filters could be used to get some extra time. If you've left them at home, use a polariser to lose some light.
 
I did quite well in manual actually. Got a couple perfectly exposed but camera shake was an issue at 1/30. What is that phrase about running and walking.....
 
i use manual in a lot of shots yes i can use tv or av but as people have said the metering is not always accurate and i always tend to overexpose (acording to the meter) at high iso to reduce noise for example and if im in situations where its constantly changing then manual is the way to go.

yes i can put exposure compensation on in other modes. I find it easier in manual. however i use av for fill flash as im not cometent enough to manually do it myself. I use shutter priority if i want to pan etc.

i can go on and on and no one is doing wrong trying to line up the with thte meter as they will soon realise that it wont always give the best results however its a good guide!
 
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