Shooting the first dance at a wedding

Rooster

Rooster

Messages
683
Name
John
Edit My Images
Yes
The first dance is notoriously tricky - a moving subject in a very dimly lit environment. If you use flash you freeze the subject but kill the ambience. So what's your recipe? Mine is as follows:

I have a remote flash on a stand on the edge of the dance floor, gelled red or orange. With the camera on manual settings I move around so the couple is between me and the flash and try to get a silhouette of them with a rim light from the flash. When I've got a few of those I crank up the ISO and open up the shutter to the max and try to get some shots with as slow a shutter speed as I dare to let in some of the ambient light. You can usually get some good ones if they're dancing slowly. I take some with and without the gelled flash. Then I take off the remote flash trigger and put another flash on the camera and take a few safety shots which will look decent converted to black and white.

What's your recipe?

Also, when shooting a reception in a dimly lit function room, what shutter speed do you use? I usually use about 1/100 second with rear-curtain on-camera ETTL flash bounced off the ceiling or wall.
 
There's some good thinking in there, and some weird too.

The weird?

The flash lit 'bankers' really should be shot first, one day your shy couple will have asked the DJ to invite everyone to join them after 30 seconds and your chance of getting them is lost.

Rear curtain sync isn't required for:
Non linear movement (most dancing)
And doesn't kick in till shutter speeds below 1/30, not noticeable till much slower.

What I add to the above, is my main flash is hand held, so that remote flash can be:
The only light for a silhouette or rim lit picture.
A starburst whilst they're lit from my hand held bounced flash
A rimlight whilst they're lit from my hand held bounced flash
Switched off to just use my hand held bounced flash
 
Just to expand on 2nd curtain (not necessarily 1st dance).

The long exposure streaky light with flash shots; if you use 2nd curtain, you have no idea what the flash will freeze half a second after you've pressed the shutter, if you use 1st curtain, you can pick your frozen moment and then add the streaks.
 
Last edited:
Thanks Phil, very helpful reply.

So you've got a remote flash on a stand like mine and another in your hand, not on the camera and you aim it at the wall/ceiling? Interesting.

You're right, should get the safe shots in first then get creative. Never had one yet where they didn't dance for the whole song before every else came on but it will happen one day.

Never tried that streaky light technique before but might give it a go tomorrow. So what exposure time do you go for - half a second or a second? So the couple is frozen at the start of the exposure then move the camera to streak the disco lights?
 
Rooster said:
Thanks Phil, very helpful reply.

So you've got a remote flash on a stand like mine and another in your hand, not on the camera and you aim it at the wall/ceiling? Interesting.

You're right, should get the safe shots in first then get creative. Never had one yet where they didn't dance for the whole song before every else came on but it will happen one day.

Never tried that streaky light technique before but might give it a go tomorrow. So what exposure time do you go for - half a second or a second? So the couple is frozen at the start of the exposure then move the camera to streak the disco lights?
Click to expand...
Long exposure between half and a second.
Be aware where your light streaks will land. Try to shoot space for them to move into and avoid them hitting your subjects faces.

The handheld flash allows me to bounce it or use a largish diffuser and use it direct. All sorts.
 
As Dave above, forgot to mention the obvious.
As always when using flash, set the exposure for the ambient first.

Same rule whether you're exposing bright and adding a touch of fill, under exposing to create a dramatic sky or slightly under exposing an indoor background to make your subject pop or shooting fireworks or light trails on a dance floor.

Flash only kills the ambient when you haven't thought about the ambient and chosen what happens.
 
Last edited:
All depends.. Not exactly wow or set up correctly, but the couple loved it and that's all that matters..

IMG_0812+%28304%29-2.jpg
 
Really good shots there Dave,can i ask did you use some sort of diffuser on the flash?.:)
 
Cheers for that.:)
 
I need to be a bit more creative and try OCF - tend to just bounce on camera. (Just a couple I have on my phone)
ImageUploadedByTalk Photography Forums1468351861.140695.jpg
ImageUploadedByTalk Photography Forums1468351802.592612.jpg
 

Attachments

  • ImageUploadedByTalk Photography Forums1468351906.507190.jpg
    ImageUploadedByTalk Photography Forums1468351906.507190.jpg
    61.6 KB · Views: 17
Last edited:
Great shots, Dave and Lynn. I get the theory but I don't see how you've localised the light from the flash like that, even the light on the floor at their feet shows no sign of light spill from the flash. I've tried bouncing from the ceiling but it just bounces it everywhere. I have a flash gun which zooms in to 180mm and even that spills out where I don't want it, I suppose I need practise and experimentation. I've ordered one of those flashbender things to play with.
 
Rooster said:
Great shots, Dave and Lynn. I get the theory but I don't see how you've localised the light from the flash like that, even the light on the floor at their feet shows no sign of light spill from the flash. I've tried bouncing from the ceiling but it just bounces it everywhere. I have a flash gun which zooms in to 180mm and even that spills out where I don't want it, I suppose I need practise and experimentation. I've ordered one of those flashbender things to play with.
Click to expand...
It'd be interesting to see what you're getting so we can try to see what you're doing wrong.
 
How you tackle it will also depend a lot on the surroundings. Nothing worse than a small room with low ceiling, all white and early on in the evening before its started to get dark.
 
jockwav said:
Really good shots there Dave,can i ask did you use some sort of diffuser on the flash?.:)
Click to expand...

Phil is wrong :D

Its fired straight at them with no diffuser at all

WHAT ??? (I hear peeps shouting) On-camera flash fired straight at people, that's a NO-NO isn't it - except no its not, cos it works lol

Dave
 
They are excellent Dave.:clap:
So you metered for the ambient then added flash?
 
Last edited:
jockwav said:
They are excellent Dave.:clap:
So you metered for the ambient then added flash?
Click to expand...

Yep - its the only way I like to do it :)

Same with any OCF I ever do too, Weddings, portraits, cars even its all the same, get the ambient to where you want it then add light onto the subject - simples

Dave
 
Rooster said:
The first dance is notoriously tricky - a moving subject in a very dimly lit environment. If you use flash you freeze the subject but kill the ambience. So what's your recipe?
What's your recipe?
Click to expand...

Aperture priority, ETTL flash bounced off camera, adjust flash compensation/aperture to get pleasing balance with ambient and Bob's yer mother's brother. Always worked for us :)

Rooster said:
Also, when shooting a reception in a dimly lit function room, what shutter speed do you use?
Click to expand...

As above, adjusted as required to get > 1/50th.

Neither of us ever used anything at a wedding beyond ETTL on-camera, bounced.

ShoeQueen said:
I need to be a bit more creative ...
Click to expand...

God knows why, Lynn, judging by those.
 
Last edited:
DG Phototraining said:
Yep - its the only way I like to do it :)

Same with any OCF I ever do too, Weddings, portraits, cars even its all the same, get the ambient to where you want it then add light onto the subject - simples

Dave
Click to expand...
Thanks for that Dave.:)
 
Phil V said:
It'd be interesting to see what you're getting so we can try to see what you're doing wrong.
Click to expand...

I'd be embarrassed to post them here next to these shots. I just use my safety flash shots converted to b&w and some high ISO non-flash shots for ambience. Acceptable I think but I need to get some real wow shots.

As I say, I know the theory here and use it for dramatic outdoors shots underexposing the sky, it's just stopping the light bouncing around where I don't want it. I'm going to try holding the flash off camera with one hand pointed directly at them, just need to practise. Next wedding I second-shoot I'll be there as soon as the lights go down trying things out.

How about this: Camera on a tripod on the edge of the dance floor, wide-ish angle. Take some nice ambient shots of the empty dance floor when the disco first starts up, leave the camera in place. When the couple take to the floor shoot them with as much flash as you need, bounced off the ceiling, blend the two in photoshop so you have the best of both worlds - perfect ambience and well-exposed couple. You can always darken/lighten each exposure to get them to blend in.
 
Rooster said:
How about this: Camera on a tripod on the edge of the dance floor, wide-ish angle. Take some nice ambient shots of the empty dance floor when the disco first starts up, leave the camera in place. When the couple take to the floor shoot them with as much flash as you need, bounced off the ceiling, blend the two in photoshop so you have the best of both worlds - perfect ambience and well-exposed couple. You can always darken/lighten each exposure to get them to blend in.
Click to expand...

Too much flipping hassle, where you getting the tripod from? This really is easy enough to do.

You're under thinking it (bizarre statement),

Camera on manual to expose the ambient to taste (easy), maybe a stop under, fairly high ISO decent shutter speed and aperture that'll give enough DoF for the couple (copy Dave's settings).

Flash on TTL, so lets see what's making it 'bounce all over the place?

Some thoughts -
Inverse square law; if you're a long way from the couple and they're not a long way from the background, then you're illuminating both fairly equally. If they're close to you and you're therefore relatively further from the background, you're using the ISL to your advantage, bright couple pop from the BG.

Flash diffusers; they're designed for numpties who don't understand how softening works, they throw light all over the place, removing your control. Take control, bin the diffuser till it's not adding to the problems.

Tilting, swivelling, zooming; Dave just zooms to a point and aims it, I zoom in and sometimes bounce sometimes direct, but the lesson is soft light isn't the only answer, don't be scared to use hard light sources.

FEC; if the flash is a bit too bright, turn it down a touch, If it's not bright enough, turn it up a notch, it's not tricky.
 
Rooster said:
Great shots, Dave and Lynn. I get the theory but I don't see how you've localised the light from the flash like that, even the light on the floor at their feet shows no sign of light spill from the flash. I've tried bouncing from the ceiling but it just bounces it everywhere. I have a flash gun which zooms in to 180mm and even that spills out where I don't want it, I suppose I need practise and experimentation. I've ordered one of those flashbender things to play with.
Click to expand...
I don't have my flash on full - it's just an extra bit of light on the couple, not the whole room. Maybe you're using too much?

I do have problems with those white dance floors bouncing it back - darker floors are easier. I have a business card held on with a band to add a tiny kick forward as well.

Yes experiment - I shot dance social events before I ever shot weddings and I guess I learned what worked for me that way. I keep it very simple. Stay on after a first dance and just shoot the general dancing to experiment.

A couple more showing the floor (again just what I have on my phone)

ImageUploadedByTalk Photography Forums1468455027.462423.jpg
ImageUploadedByTalk Photography Forums1468455063.877908.jpg
 
Rooster said:
How about this: Camera on a tripod on the edge of the dance floor ... leave the camera in place.
Click to expand...

Forgive me for asking, but what sort of weddings do you get to photograph at which you could leave an unattended tripod around after the meal and not expect somebody to either trip over it or move it?
 
Serendipitous Sid said:
Forgive me for asking, but what sort of weddings do you get to photograph at which you could leave an unattended tripod around after the meal and not expect somebody to either trip over it or move it?
Click to expand...
Or steal it... (note to self don't shoot weddings in Gosport in future)
 
Last edited:
Thanks for posting this thread OP.
I've been asked to shoot my Brother in Laws first dance so any tips would be useful.
I'm hoping for enough light to shoot without having to use my flash but I'm interested in @Phil V process but need it explained to me in simpler terms.

Exposing for ambient first.
So, set my camera to manual and expose the best I can using shutter speed, aperture and ISO for the desired effect?
Do I then shoot at this exposure but with my flash mounted on my camera?
Will I have to play around with the power of the flash?

I've only just bought my flash gun so I'd practice at home first.

What I have found out though is that my flash gun will fire off the camera, I guess it's driven by the in built flash but it seems the in built flash always fires.
Are there any shots I should consider with my flash off of the camera?

I'm shooting with a D7000, Nikkor 18-55mm zoom and a Sigma 70-300mm zoom.
I will post the flash details later if needed.
 
Blimey
J40ADF said:
...
I'm hoping for enough light to shoot without having to use my flash but I'm interested in @Phil V process but need it explained to me in simpler terms.

Exposing for ambient first.
So, set my camera to manual and expose the best I can using shutter speed, aperture and ISO for the desired effect?
.
Click to expand...
More specifically - you're choosing how much ambient you would like exposed - that could vary from perfectly exposed to pitch black. The important point being; that's your decision, and will create your background, I tend to go for about a stop under exposed, but that's 'shoot to taste'

J40ADF said:
Do I then shoot at this exposure but with my flash mounted on my camera?
Will I have to play around with the power of the flash?
.
Click to expand...
On or off camera - your choice, but the 'wireless communication' between camera and flash will be less reliable in a large hall than in your living room (I wouldn't recommend using it) but as above - you can get great results with on camera flash with a little care.
Using FEC is quite simple and you should be able to do it with the camera to your eye.

J40ADF said:
I've only just bought my flash gun so I'd practice at home first.

What I have found out though is that my flash gun will fire off the camera, I guess it's driven by the in built flash but it seems the in built flash always fires.
Are there any shots I should consider with my flash off of the camera?

I'm shooting with a D7000, Nikkor 18-55mm zoom and a Sigma 70-300mm zoom.
I will post the flash details later if needed.
Click to expand...

There may be settings to switch off the built in flash adding to the image - but I'm no Nikon shooter. Also I would stick with your speedlight on camera.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top