Beginner Should a beginner photographer avoid lenses without image stabilisation on the A7?

DodgyPhotog · 3 Dec 2015

The other half and myself have just started getting into photography recently but are already wanting sharper images and a 35mm prime looks like our next lens purchase (only have the 28-70mm kit lens now).

Sony's 35mm f2.8 doesn't have IS I discovered as I was about to buy one and am now at a loss what to do. Are there other 35mm lenses that have stabilisation that are really sharp and have autofocus?

It would be the other half who would use the 35mm the most, she really likes street photography and it would quite often be in low light conditions where we live. She hasn't got the steadiest hands either to be honest. I know that Sony make Alpha bodies with IS in them, but I'm not planning on upgrading for a couple of years. I really want to build up decent lenses and use the A7 to learn how to shoot. (Also it wasn't horribly expensive compared to say an A7R II and I can take it hiking running and not be as afraid to trash it).

AJQS · 3 Dec 2015

Quite simply no. Having IS vs Not will make virtually no impact on your learning. Stabilisation helps only with perfectly static subjects, at a little lower than regular hand holding shutter speeds. A tripod does the same and much more. Yes there can be times where IS is preferable to a tripod, but in reality they are few and far between, it's an aid not an essential.

Kodiak Qc · 3 Dec 2015

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Depending on your age and/or physical condition, image stabilization is not an
easy decision in any case.

I am sixty five and have no problem (yet!) with my hands, so I never use this
feature. But a mentoree of mine could not do without it.

Physical problems are one aspect of the thing, the other is working a lot in low
light conditions and/or with longer lenses handheld.

DodgyPhotog · 3 Dec 2015

Reassuring that, thanks! Is this lens considered fast enough to shoot in the evenings with a reasonably steady hand then?

Faldrax · 3 Dec 2015

The 'rule of thumb' is that you want a shutter speed = 1/Focal Length or faster - so for a 35mm you want 1/35s or faster (so 1/100s is fine, 1/15s will tend to show camera shake).

Image stabilisation - in lens or in body, aims to improve this, typically allowing 2-3 'stops' (where a 'stop' is a whole increment of aperture or shutter) - so a 35 with stabilisation might be OK at 1/5s.

If you are shooting scenes with people in them, you'll be wanting 1/50 or better anyway to reduce blur from the people (subjects) moving, so IS is probably not going to make much difference - but have a look at the shutter speeds you are getting currently, and use the above as a guide.

DodgyPhotog · 3 Dec 2015

Faldrax said:
The 'rule of thumb' is that you want a shutter speed = 1/Focal Length or faster - so for a 35mm you want 1/35s or faster (so 1/100s is fine, 1/15s will tend to show camera shake).

Image stabilisation - in lens or in body, aims to improve this, typically allowing 2-3 'stops' (where a 'stop' is a whole increment of aperture or shutter) - so a 35 with stabilisation might be OK at 1/5s.

If you are shooting scenes with people in them, you'll be wanting 1/50 or better anyway to reduce blur from the people (subjects) moving, so IS is probably not going to make much difference - but have a look at the shutter speeds you are getting currently, and use the above as a guide.

Ah okay thanks! That's given me an idea. I can set my kit lens to 35mm and play with shutter speeds in low light to see how we fare. Maybe there's a way to turn of the IS on the kit lens too to see.. will go through the options.

Kodiak Qc · 3 Dec 2015

DodgyPhotog said:
Is this lens considered fast enough to shoot in the evenings with a reasonably steady hand then?

•
Your best asset is not the cool ƒ2.8 aperture but the higher working ISO of the sensor
when it comes to event shooting in possibly low light and no flash may be used.

DodgyPhotog · 3 Dec 2015

Kodiak Qc said:
•
Your best asset is not the cool ƒ2.8 aperture but the higher working ISO of the sensor
when it comes to event shooting in possibly low light and no flash may be used.

How high would you put the ISO up in your own use when shooting in low light? Is there a point where you say it's not worth it because the noise is too bad?

ancient_mariner · 3 Dec 2015

Put the ISO as high as it needs to go to get a tolerably sharp image, then worry about the noise later. There's also a skill in having a slow enough shutter speed to allow some movement in parts of the image while keeping other sections crisp i.e. hands moving, face still. Always feel free to experiemnet and learn with this kind of stuff.

Kodiak Qc · 3 Dec 2015

DodgyPhotog said:
How high would you put the ISO up in your own use when shooting in low light? Is there a point where you say it's not worth it because the noise is too bad?

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This Kris is the bone in the soup!

I am using 3 bodies and I had to test them to discover their
respective "braking point"!

Larger pixels, like on my D3S are much better in lower light
conditions than the tiny one of the D800E… which is rather
performing very good but nothing to compare with the D3S.
In the middle, my D3X.

DodgyPhotog · 3 Dec 2015

I guess it was a silly question in retrospect

Like you say I'll do the groundwork and see! I turned off the Steadyshot option in my cam and took some pics, then turned it on and repeated (some low light shots indoors while I was waiting for your replies). No difference after zooming in it seems. Thanks, feel confident enough now to take a leap on that lens!

StewartR · 3 Dec 2015

Faldrax said:
The 'rule of thumb' is that you want a shutter speed = 1/Focal Length or faster - so for a 35mm you want 1/35s or faster (so 1/100s is fine, 1/15s will tend to show camera shake)

Yes, **BUT** - it's only a rule of thumb and individual circumstances vary. In the scenario you described, I'd probably be happy with 1/20th, whereas my wife would probably need 1/100th. And with that in mind:

DodgyPhotog said:
She hasn't got the steadiest hands either to be honest.

Unfortunately there's no really substitute for experimentation. Fortunately you can do that with your kit lens set at 35mm.

ancient_mariner · 3 Dec 2015

DodgyPhotog said:
I guess it was a silly question in retrospect

Like you say I'll do the groundwork and see! I turned off the Steadyshot option in my cam and took some pics, then turned it on and repeated (some low light shots indoors while I was waiting for your replies). No difference after zooming in it seems. Thanks, feel confident enough now to take a leap on that lens!

TBH I have steadyshot in my Sony too, and not convinced it actually makes any real difference. I don't have steady hands (and take lots of pictures to compensate - at least 1 should be sharp - when I hand hold) and will always try to find a solid object to lean on or stabilise the camera.

scottishguy · 3 Dec 2015

Millions of great photographs were taken, well before image stabilisation was invented.
It's a bit of luxury I'd say.

Swanseajack · 4 Dec 2015

What model is your A7 as I believe the mark2 version has image stabilisation built into the body. I have problems with my shoulders, arms, elbows and hands and for me using my D750 and say the 50mm 1.8g prime I use a shutter speed of 1/640 etc....... due to my problems.

Try at 1/800 and bring the shutter speed down to where you feel comfortable shooting. Also, look to bring your elbows tight to your body, lean against something (a wall) or rest you camera on a wall etc........... these are all useful to get your shutter speed down and to lower your ISO if needed.

As a camera, I would the expect the camera to have no problems at shooting at ISO 3200 / 6400 etc...Have a look around the A7 thread on here for specific camera advice if needed >https://www.talkphotography.co.uk/t...ii-owners-thread.511885/page-155#post-7156779

Finally, the 35mm lens is supposed to be very good along with the excellent 55mm f1.8.

DodgyPhotog · 4 Dec 2015

Swanseajack said:
What model is your A7 as I believe the mark2 version has image stabilisation built into the body. I have problems with my shoulders, arms, elbows and hands and for me using my D750 and say the 50mm 1.8g prime I use a shutter speed of 1/640 etc....... due to my problems.

Try at 1/800 and bring the shutter speed down to where you feel comfortable shooting. Also, look to bring your elbows tight to your body, lean against something (a wall) or rest you camera on a wall etc........... these are all useful to get your shutter speed down and to lower your ISO if needed.

As a camera, I would the expect the camera to have no problems at shooting at ISO 3200 / 6400 etc...Have a look around the A7 thread on here for specific camera advice if needed >https://www.talkphotography.co.uk/t...ii-owners-thread.511885/page-155#post-7156779

Finally, the 35mm lens is supposed to be very good along with the excellent 55mm f1.8.

Just the original A7 without the in-body stabilisation. You're right, practise will help more than relying on IS.