well yeah , but is creativity developed by shooting in the style of Ansel Adams, or writing an essay about why HCB was the one true god, ? IMO being made to emulate the work of others is the antithesis of creativity. You only have to look at our 'creative' forum to see how little creativity comes from doing the same thing as everyone else. IMO creativity isn't really something you can teach, it is developed by the freedom to experiment and develop ones own ideas free of judgement of whether they are 'good' or not , being marked from E to A based on whether your work fits someone elses preconceived mark scheme will not make you more creative.
Exactly.. so you can teach it therefore... just not as a subject. You teach it by providing a thinking environment, and looking at, and studying the work of others...experimenting with ideas once you have a broad range of cultural references in which to place your ideas... not actually creating the work of others. You're right.. that is what happens in the creative forum. You get people trying out what others have done and seen elsewhere. They'll have a go at water drops, or this, or that. You get no argument from me here.
Also I'd challenge how valuable creativity actually is in getting hired /paid anyway - in my (admittedly limited) experience clients don't want highly creative work
What clients though? What do you shoot? Wedding clients? Of course they don't. They don't want their big day used as a test bed for an art project
Social portraiture? No... mainstream commercial.. probably not either.
, they want the same formulaic work as everyone else (whether that's weddings , yes yet another set of groups... grooms friends, brides friends, all the ladies in daft hats, all the men holding a cigarette behind their back zzzz , or landscape shots where tired clichés like Durdle Door with a fluffy sea from long exposure , out sells new but less populist views ) Even things that are allegedly creative - trash the dress, go pro shots from above, cake smash blah were only creative the first time , but being a collosal cliché doesn't stop them selling.
Well.. yes.. Wedding clients, as I said above.. no. Landscape? Not really much work for landscape photographers is there. You'd be quite foolhardy to think you can earn much of a living doing that.. but if you wanted to, you'd need to at least be original. Trash the dress? Cake smash? Seriously? Weddings and Social Portraiture aren't the things I even think about when I think of professional photography though. These are the types of jobs that you don't really need a massive amount of creativity to produce. Anyone with a bit of tech knowledge and a SLR can set up and do work like that.. probably badly... but the clients don't even seem to care about that. No, they're not creative (although there are a few wedding photographer that are... seen some in this very forum). They're derivative because the client is the general public. There are very few truly creative wedding photographers out there. I've seen the odd good one in here... but Pete.... you don't go to Uni to study photography only to do weddings or social portraiture. If you want to do that, you really just need technical skill to do it well. If someone wants to do that.... they should just go and do it. These industries are ruined now though... far too many idiots with a camera who think they know what's what, doing weddings for only £500 etc. The fact that Venture can charge £1000+ per large framed print when their photographers aren't even photographers pretty much sums this type of market up for me.
Now let's look at editorial photography.. still huge markets for that. That's where there's still creativity. Fashion.. proper editorial fashion (not catalogue and women's mags), that's creative.. always has been. Proper portrait photography (not social portraiture), Advertising,
high end commercial and industrial work is often very creative. All these industries still look for new, fresh creative talent all the time, and that's where our graduates are going (the ones with the drive and passion any way). Every year our graduate shows in London attract industry types... ever year our best get snapped up to shoot something, or assist someone, or just exchange details and network with one another. 6 of last year's graduates are now working in London, and getting commissioned work. 8 more in Manchester and Leeds. One of our third year students has just been commissioned to shoot stuff for Kopparberg cider only last week ... he's not even graduated yet. That happens every year too as we have industry based modules. So.. Pete... does a creative education get you work? Yes. You'll get the same kind of response if you ask someone from Falmouth, or Nottingham, or any other reputable degree course too.
Yes. It does.
I'm not saying that an A level is inherently bad - as I said I've been tempted to do one myself for the hell of it , but I do doubt whether it will really help that much with pursuing a photographic career (that goes double for a degree - if I was starting a new business now I'd far rather invest the £13k (or however much it costs these days) in cameras, lenses, and marketing , than spend it on 3 years of higher education.)
What business though Pete. Weddings? Social portraiture? Of course a degree is useless for that. Why do I always feel I'm repeating myself... LOL. If someone came to us saying they want a degree to start a business shooting social portraiture, we'd advise them that they'd be effectively wasting their time... go do a HND. Pete.. you can't say a degree education doesn't get you work.... you just can't. It does... if you're good.... it does. The degree itself doesn't, no... the actual piece of paper... no one gives a toss about that. The photography you'll be producing if you use the opportunities afforded to you by a good degree program... THAT will get you work though. I can prove this, year in, year out, and so could any of the other big 10 photography degree courses around the country. People make the mistake of thinking that just having the degree will get you work. It doesn't. This isn't banking or insurance, or other industries where having a piece of paper will get you a job. No one, not once, ever, has asked to see my degrees.. I don't even know where they are... LOL. What graduates leave with is a great book full of creative, fresh, imaginative imagery. THAT gets them work... that and the ability to market themselves.It was my work that got me work when I graduated.. that and the ability to discuss the work, talk creatively and passionately about ideas.
A level photography won't get you work, no... you'll learn nothing about the industry... you'll learn nothing particularly creative. It's a very basic course. I'm surprised you want to even do it Pete. You'll be way in advance of it already I bet.
when i should have been listening to teacher)
