Beginner Should I upgrade my body

Darkstar_Surfer

Darkstar_Surfer

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Name
Colin
Edit My Images
Yes
I am re-discovering the joy of photograph and as always the idea of new equipment starts to raise its ugly head. I just bought a Canon EF-S 15-85mm f/3.5-5.6 IS USM lens to use on my old Canon EOS 350D body. I don't plan to buy anything soon but you never know when a barging will come along and it is usually good to know what you should be looking out for and what you should avoid.

Now I have Canon tattooed down my spin so it is unlikely I will switch to Nikon or anything else.

My attention had locked on to the Canon EOS 70D as a possible upgrade but would have to be second hand. I understand the 80D will be out in a few weeks so that might drive down the price of new 70D and therefore the price of second hand 70D will go down as well.

Any comments.
 
I read your post in the welcome forum so with that in mind I'd suggest holding off any further purchases for now and get out and use what you have. Hopefully you will be back to stay as it were and then any further expense isn't wasted as such. Once you know where your current body is holding you back you will be able to make a better judgement call on what the new body needs to help solve. Hope that helps.
 
Should you upgrade your body? It depends. What do you think you would achieve by doing so? What would the new body allow you to do, that you can't do with the current one?

If you can answer those questions, then they will help point you in the right direction regarding which upgrade to go for, and they will help you understand what benefits you will be getting for the money. If you can't answer the questions... you don't need to upgrade.
 
There are a few things I would like. More MPs for one so I can zoom in digitally when editing when my lens can't frame the image due to lack of zoom.

More accurate faster focus and most importantly fewer washed out shots.

The last is probably down to me not paying enough attention to the lighting direction.

Which reminds me a larger lcd screen to see what is going on and do I need to try and take the shot again. The 350D is tiny compared to the wife's compact.
 
Darkstar_Surfer said:
There are a few things I would like. More MPs for one so I can zoom in digitally when editing when my lens can't frame the image due to lack of zoom.

More accurate faster focus and most importantly fewer washed out shots.

The last is probably down to me not paying enough attention to the lighting direction.

Which reminds me a larger lcd screen to see what is going on and do I need to try and take the shot again. The 350D is tiny compared to the wife's compact.
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Why don't you just by a longer lens .... Will be better quality than cropping the image ......
What are you taking photos off???? When you say framing the image
 
owenb said:
Why don't you just by a longer lens .... Will be better quality than cropping the image ......
What are you taking photos off???? When you say framing the image
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I like the 15-85 as it gives me good wide angle when I need it but does not sacrifice image sharpness.
I originally thought of getting an 18-200 but the quality was not what I wanted. Although it would have been cheaper.
I can effectively digitally zoom with the 350D but it is very limited.

I like to go for walks with the kids and photograph anything that takes my fancy but some times it is just too far away to get the shot I want. My old lens was the 18-55 that came with the 350D so the change to 15-85 will help but there will always be time I wish I had a bit more.
 
When you say digitally zoom with the body I'm confused what do you mean?
 
Here is a picture I took last year with the stock 18-55.

IMG_5174.jpg
 
owenb said:
When you say digitally zoom with the body I'm confused what do you mean?
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On the PC I crop the image but I only have a 8.1 MP sensor so I can't crop to much before the image is not worth viewing.

There will always be images I just cant get like the pheasant on top of the neighbours house that I just could not get clearly.
 
Ah right got you now sorry your wording of digitally zooming is different to mine but that's cool.....

It's a difficult one because a body with more mos is useful and a longer lens
 
Darkstar_Surfer said:
On the PC I crop the image but I only have a 8.1 MP sensor so I can't crop to much before the image is not worth viewing.

There will always be images I just cant get like the pheasant on top of the neighbours house that I just could not get clearly.
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Take a look at the EF-S 55-250mm
Cracking lens for the money. Much better to get maximum optical zoom than rely upon digital cropping.
 
Personally, I'd spend the money getting out and taking more photos. I do have frequent issues with GAS and it's hard to resist getting something new and funky (currently it's lighting modifiers I'm trying to avoid buying)... but in the long run my photography has improved far more by trial and error and simply taking thousands of (mostly rubbish) photos. If I'd had a better body then I'd probably just have taken more photos at a faster frame rate and been able to see more focusing problems, lighting issues and the like from the increased detail available to me when I started pixel peeping.

Also, more MP means bigger files, possibly slower editing and more powerful computer requirements.

I've seen guys taking some fantastic photos with 5MP camera phones - they didn't get to their level of skill because they had better cameras, but they practiced until they acquired the skills and experience to use whatever camera they now have to its fullest.
 
RichardtheSane said:
Take a look at the EF-S 55-250mm
Cracking lens for the money. Much better to get maximum optical zoom than rely upon digital cropping.
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I have a Canon EF 75-300 F/4-5.6 from my film days but I never managed to take any decent pictures with it on my 350D. I think I struggle to hold it still enough.

I also don't like swapping lenses outside, probably lack of practice.
 
Darkstar_Surfer said:
There are a few things I would like. More MPs for one so I can zoom in digitally when editing when my lens can't frame the image due to lack of zoom.

More accurate faster focus and most importantly fewer washed out shots.

The last is probably down to me not paying enough attention to the lighting direction.

Which reminds me a larger lcd screen to see what is going on and do I need to try and take the shot again. The 350D is tiny compared to the wife's compact.
Click to expand...
OK, that's good, you've clearly thought about this.

More megapixels so you can zoom... Well, of course the 'correct' answer, as you know, is a longer lens. But I sympathise with your situation; the 15-85 is a great walkaround lens and what you want to do is give that a bit more reach. Every newer body will do that for you so it doesn't really narrow down your options.

Faster focus... Newer bodies have more powerful autofocus processors, but they also have more AF points to manage. Other than the obvious generalities that professional bodies will have faster AF than consumer bodies, and newer bodies will tend to have faster AF than older bodies, I'm not sure there's any data around to quantify the differences. (For example how does a 60D compare with a 700D.) There's also the possibility that the lens is the limiting factor - it's a good lens, but at the end of the day it's only a glorified kit lens. If I've still got an old 350D in the office I can test how it performs with the 15-85 compared with a newer body.

More accurate focus... Are you talking about focus accuracy when the subject is moving (in which case it's really about AF speed) or when it's static? If the latter, I don't know that that's a body issue, to be honest.

Fewer washed out shots... Unless your camera has a fault, that's down to you, and a newer camera won't help.

Larger LCD screen... Sure. The screen on the 350D is tiny, isn't it?

So pretty much any newer body will help. Megapixel count and screen size are published specifications so it's easy for you to choose there. Autofocus speed is harder to gauge though.

Do you have a budget in mind? Are you looking to buy new or used?
 
I don't have £500 and if I did I probably spend it on something else so it will almost certainly be secondhand and as I said I am in no hurry I just like looking but then again that was how I ended up with the 15-85.

Interesting that you choice the 7D over the 70D, I need to look in to the differences.
 
The biggest drawback of the 350D is probably the ISO range. I have a 400D and upgraded to the 70D - only because I takes sports photos and (apart from the fact it was in my price bracket) it had better higher ISO performance and faster focussing. I also found that the top display and BBF ability etc was more suited to the pictures I was taking. i also invested in a 70-200 2.8 lens for the same reasons.

My advice would be that unless you have a specific need such as sports photography or similar then don't rush. Perhaps just get a secondhand 55-250 lens and take lots more photos before purchasing a new body.
 
StewartR said:
I assume you realise that your horizon is seriously squint in that photo...?
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Yes, one day I might try and edit it to square it up but all my PC time just now is dedicated to ripping my entire DVD and BD collection to my NAS so my living room no longer looks like a branch of HMV.
 
drounding said:
The biggest drawback of the 350D is probably the ISO range. I have a 400D and upgraded to the 70D - only because I takes sports photos and (apart from the fact it was in my price bracket) it had better higher ISO performance and faster focussing. I also found that the top display and BBF ability etc was more suited to the pictures I was taking. i also invested in a 70-200 2.8 lens for the same reasons.

My advice would be that unless you have a specific need such as sports photography or similar then don't rush. Perhaps just get a secondhand 55-250 lens and take lots more photos before purchasing a new body.
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Strangely I had just been looking in to ISO settings on my 350D as I don't know how to set it and it is part of the exposure triangle so I need to understand it better.
 
I'm still using my 350 for infrared. Results are still very worthwhile. Did you think about a 50 f1.8 lens this would give a lot more creative possibilities in low light or subject isolation?
 
newbie1 said:
I'm still using my 350 for infrared. Results are still very worthwhile. Did you think about a 50 f1.8 lens this would give a lot more creative possibilities in low light or subject isolation?
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I have a Canon EF 50mm F/1.4 USM from my film days, although mine looks different from all the pictures I have seen so I must have an old one. Purchased in July 2003 from Amazon shipped direct from Japan just in time for my daughters birth.

I probably should update my signature and gear list with all the lenses I have.
 
I just had a chat with a colleague that had a Canon 350D about the same time I bought mine. He upgrade to a 450D before jumping to a 40D. He said that was his big mistake as he never got on with the 40D citing weight as one of his main disappointments. He now has a 650D and although he does not use it as much as he used to use his 350D or 450D he greatly prefers it to the 40D.
 
Good point - if you determine that to achieve what you want does require an upgrade suggest you get along to a shop and try them for size and weight. At home between the family we have most sizes catered for with 350, 700, 70 and 5!
 
Darkstar_Surfer said:
I have a Canon EF 75-300 F/4-5.6 from my film days but I never managed to take any decent pictures with it on my 350D. I think I struggle to hold it still enough.

I also don't like swapping lenses outside, probably lack of practice.
Click to expand...
The 75-300mm was never a very good lens at the best of times. The 55-250mm is a lot better, and it has an optical image stabiliser which helps a lot with keeping it steady.

Practice builds confidence.
 
The 55-250 does seem to be a fairly cheap lens so could be an option but I may just try and save up for a new body first.
 
Darkstar_Surfer said:
Strangely I had just been looking in to ISO settings on my 350D as I don't know how to set it and it is part of the exposure triangle so I need to understand it better.
Click to expand...

I think this is the best reason for not upgrading the body. Get to know your current camera then you'll be in a better position to decide if you need to change the body.

Dave
 
My own personal view on what is most likely to contribute to making a great/good photo, excluding very specialist forms of photography such as macro, wildlife etc.:

1. Good composition - this is about what's in frame, how it's interacting (especially in portraits/street) and a sense of "story" or emotion (applicable even in landscapes)
2. Light - bad composition will ruin a photo but after that the vast majority of what makes a photo work or not is about lighting - areas of shadow vs highlight, fall-off, tonal qualities of the light and how the photographer has captured that to its fullest
3. Great subject - catching the moment or being at the right place at the right time
4. Great composition - the extra bells and whistles which just give an image that je ne sais quoi. Absence of this can still lead to a very good shot, but not a great one
5. Technical capture - effective use of aperture, shutter speed etc. Spot on focus... get these "wrong" and a great story can still be told creating a powerful image, but the photographer would probably still be, "if only I had..."
6. Post processing - the polish which can turn a great photo into something which makes people go, "wow". Almost impossible to turn an average photo into anything materially better, though
7. Lens selection - might allow you to get that shot you'd otherwise miss and may result in a sharper or less noisy image
8. Camera body - again, might just give you an extra edge in terms of FPS or an ability to crop in digitally, but otherwise it's just a machine to bring all of the above together

It's worth noting that the photographer him/her self is wholly responsible for 1-6 and will choose 7 based on kit available and knowledge (and occasionally luck - the best lens is the one you have on the camera at that special moment). 8 barely makes it into the list.

Conversely, what's most likely to contribute to an amateur photographer enjoying his/her photography? It's going to vary but might include some of the following in no particular order

- Improving at photography / taking some good photos
- Taking fewer rubbish photos
- Learning new skills
- Having new / great kit (GAS)

So buying a new body might well be more about that second thing than the first thing. Which is fine - it's not a criticism (we all suffer from it) but don't expect a new body to do much to improve your photography by itself...
 
I was going to up grade my body (canon 1100d) too something i thought was going to help me improve, then i realised that it isn't the camera that was the problem. The camera itself can capture whatever i point it at. What it can't do is compose, add light, (which is a fundamental part of photography), make the subject interesting and so on.
It only 12.2mp, but this is enough to print A3 prints, the iso isn't particularly good over 800.
I would only up grade the body now if i was going to do more wildlife, and only for the fps.
I've learnt to live with in its limitations as I'm more interested in portraits and still life photography now (it's taken 15mths to find this out).
@pjm1 hit the nail on the head for me with the firt two on the list.
 
I picked up a second hand canon ef-s 55-250 f4-5.6 at the weekend and managed to take it out for a test to my son's evening football practice. I definetly need some practice with this lens as very few of my pictures worked. Poor light did not help but I should be able to do better. I get some good close ups but almost all action was blurred. Will have a look through my exif data to see if there was a trend.
 
Darkstar_Surfer said:
I picked up a second hand canon ef-s 55-250 f4-5.6 at the weekend and managed to take it out for a test to my son's evening football practice. I definetly need some practice with this lens as very few of my pictures worked. Poor light did not help but I should be able to do better. I get some good close ups but almost all action was blurred. Will have a look through my exif data to see if there was a trend.
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Look at your shutter speed specifically.

In poor light you will struggle without raising the ISO, you want a shutter speed of at least 1/500th ideally 1/1000th or more. If this means ISO goes above 1600 so be it, a sharp grainy shot is better than a blurred clean shot.
 
Iso was the problem and my 350D max ISO seems to be 1600. I had lowered it to 200 which is where all the poor shots came from. The couple of clear ones were at 1600.
 
Darkstar_Surfer said:
I don't have £500 and if I did I probably spend it on something else so it will almost certainly be secondhand and as I said I am in no hurry I just like looking but then again that was how I ended up with the 15-85.

Interesting that you choice the 7D over the 70D, I need to look in to the differences.
Click to expand...

If money is tight you might want to look at a 60D (or even a 50D ) second hand - you are looking at maybe £300 for the former and £200 for the latter and they are still decent cameras and a big step up from the 350D

I've never got on with the xxxD range as i have big hands and also I don't get on with the lack of a scroll wheel on the back.. however if you like the smaller body and don't mind the arrow buttons you can also get 550D, 600D , 650D for a bargainous price second hand and they are still a big step up
 
Each time I wanted to upgrade, my dad who knows his way around photography told me that I couldn't even use my D5100 properly and to its full potential yet. And he was right. When the time comes to upgrade, you know it and you don't ask if you should upgrade. My time came and I know it because I need functionality and capabilities which my current camera does not provide. My current camera became a limitation. It annoys me because I know these things that I need to do can be done, just not with my camera. So I'm upgrading. And the thing is, I know exactly what I need and what I don't need in a camera at this point in time. This is when, I think you should upgrade :)
 
To answer your question direct

If I was you I would upgrade for the better screen and slightly better performance on ISO etc to either

Canon 550d - cheap as chips upgrade to a great camera
Or if you want something bigger to hold - canon 50d . For Same reasons

Both second hand from this site
 
I can't access the classifieds yes as I have not been a member for 60 days yet.
 
if you want dealers MPB have a good rep - although i'd suggest calling them as their new site is crap , also camtech, mifsuds, ffordes, T4 ,LCE and so forth - theres also of course the bay of E but if you go that route do beware of not getting what you pay for
 
MPB has a 550D from £169 or a 50D from £209 if that helps
 
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