Should we condemn this policeman

mikew

mikew

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Yes
On the strength of a few second clip possibly taken out of context.

Not saying for one moment its ok for him to say this but most of us have no idea what these guys are going through, some will have so much fear of the situation they find themselves in they will be close to breaking point.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-lancashire-52338058
 
The other side of the coin

 
what The p.c said was wrong ,he should have done it rather than say it ... i’ll guarantee the scrote was up to something or he wouldn’t have needed to be spoken to . You really Need the full story
 
Doesn't appear to be socially distancing either.

Regardless of what the other protagonist is/was doing this sort of behaviour from a "guardian of the law" is unacceptable. Should charges be laid against the protagonist, he has a great defence ready...

In this case the constable has both disgraced the force and driven a coach and horses through any potential future legal case (and if the protagonist was a a decent member of the public, has probably turned him into one suspicious of the police and their motives... Quite possibly on an informal "gotcha" list for the local constabulary too)
 
mikew said:
Not saying for one moment its ok for him to say this but most of us have no idea what these guys are going through, some will have so much fear of the situation they find themselves in they will be close to breaking point.
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It's hardly surprising that overworked and overstressed police officers lose their temper with people who do not think. I would sympathise if the constables of the Lancashire police suddenly decided they need to self isolate for several weeks, following what they think might be symptoms of viral infection.
 
Cockney said:
That would somehow make it ok to fit someone up?
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Without knowing the whole context all we know is that a policeman confronting someone lost his temper. Would that be a good reason to misuse his authority? I certainly can't comment on this particular case.

I have run into people who in my opinion deserve be charged with "breathing in a public place". In the interest of full disclosure: three of them were policemen.
 
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AndrewFlannigan said:
Without knowing the whole context all we know is that a policeman confronting someone lost his temper. Would that be a good reason to misuse his authority? I certainly can't comment on this particular case.

I have run into people who in my opinion deserve be charged with "breathing in a public place". In the interest of full disclosure: three of them were policemen.
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I agree. There are people who should be arrested just for existing.
These days everyone has video and goading old bill on camera has become a national sport. Youtube is full of it.
In my experience ( traffic offences) however, the police always abuse their authority. Always.
 
Copper should be sacked. Openly stating he is going to 'make something up'? It's good he's been caught on camera. I doubt much will happen beyond a reprimand though.

the black fox said:
i’ll guarantee the scrote was up to something or he wouldn’t have needed to be spoken to . You really Need the full story
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You'll 'guarantee'? How, without the 'full story'? All that is, is your prejudice showing. Fortunately, our legal system works on the basis of 'innocent until proven guilty'.

AndrewFlannigan said:
It's hardly surprising that overworked and overstressed police officers lose their temper with people who do not think
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Again; you have no information other than that video. The only 'facts' we have are that the copper openly stated he was willing to fabricate a reason to arrest somebody. That is utterly, utterly unacceptable. Under no circumstances whatsoever, should the copper lose his temper. This individual clearly isn't fit to serve society. Sack him.
 
The police are only human and I suppose can be stressed, frustrated or even frightened and of course some of them could well be twits who shouldn't be in uniform. A percentage of people in all walks of life are like that.

Years ago now (maybe 20 years ago) I had a GF who was desperate to join the police and she tried and tried to join the local force but for a specific reason I wont get into here couldn't get in and eventually went to the met. I forget the terminology but there were two classes of arrests, one where the cop reacts to a call from the public or developing situation (a call to go somewhere to a reported incident or maybe just coming across a shoplifting / mugging incident etc while they're on the spot) and arrests the bad guy/gal and another which involves going out and finding someone to arrest, like a stop and provoke a situation arrest. She had the highest arrest rate in her section for the first but a poor rate for the second as she refused to get involved in confronting people on the street to create an arrest. She was put under intense pressure to the point that it became a real issue leading to victimisation and she ended up leaving. At the time I could believe that the police were being encouraged to stop people on the street and instigate an escalating situation until the person they'd stopped reacted to the point that they could arrest them but I later got the chance to ask someone a little more experienced and higher up and he confirmed that was indeed what went on. Amazing, shocking and all that.

I don't know if that goes on. I hope not. I'm not saying that the above is a case of the police provoking an incident to get an arrest but that suspicion could be justified if the cop is being a twit or it being policy.
 
AZ6 said:
Again; you have no information other than that video. The only 'facts' we have are that the copper openly stated he was willing to fabricate a reason to arrest somebody. That is utterly, utterly unacceptable. Under no circumstances whatsoever, should the copper lose his temper. This individual clearly isn't fit to serve society. Sack him.
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And replace him with who? Someone who always behaves with impeccable manors and judgement no matter what the situation or pressure? Good luck with that.
 
woof woof said:
The police are only human and I suppose can be stressed, frustrated or even frightened and of course some of them could well be twits who shouldn't be in uniform.
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My experience is that far too many shouldn't be in uniform. Too many insecure, inadequate people in police uniforms. Given a bit of 'power', many tend to abuse it. One major issue is that the entry standards are so low; you don't even need GCSEs to sign up, just a basic competence in maths and English. That's insufficient, given that the job requires a certain level of intelligence. Not to say qualifications are everything, but they do at least indicate a person has sufficient intelligence to think about stuff a bit more than the average copper appears to. If entry standards were raised to at least A-level equivalence, then we'd see a much better, efficient and more effective police force. Plus, better educated people tend to be more secure within themselves, and less inadequate/insecure. Plus, training should be extended to include at least 6 months of law studies. As a bare minimum. Of course, this would lead to a situation where coppers would demand higher wages, and would cost more; yeah, like that is ever gonna happen with this government... A less educated, less 'intelligent' police force is easier to control and command, by those who sit in positions of power. And so it has ever been...
 
I lived in Lancashire for a number of years. His attitude does not surprise me.
 
woof woof said:
And replace him with who? Someone who always behaves with impeccable manors and judgement no matter what the situation or pressure? Good luck with that.
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Someone who isn't going to resort to 'making something up'. We have police by 'consent'. This means officers HAVE to act within a legal framework. This individual clearly didn't. And should therefore be sacked, as he's clearly not fit to do the job.
 
the man /lad was stopped after buying/picking up a vehicle .. he should under current rules be under lockdown not swanning around as if nothing was going on..and he was above the laws and social distancing rules .. it may well have been a stolen vehicle .. ? if you live in a idyllic village in for instance the cotswolds where crime is a once a year occurrence it cant be compared to the mill towns of Lancashire where everyday policing is hard under normal circumstances . the p.c went beyond his remit but without a full recording transcript its wrong to jump in and call for him to be fired .. we all are capable of saying things we dont mean under pressure .. .
 
Should we condemn him, absolutely, should he be sacked, no. He was just spouting at a stroppy youth, and lost his temper. Did he actually fit him up, seems likely not.
 
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AZ6 said:
My experience is that far too many shouldn't be in uniform. Too many insecure, inadequate people in police uniforms. Given a bit of 'power', many tend to abuse it. One major issue is that the entry standards are so low; you don't even need GCSEs to sign up, just a basic competence in maths and English. That's insufficient, given that the job requires a certain level of intelligence. Not to say qualifications are everything, but they do at least indicate a person has sufficient intelligence to think about stuff a bit more than the average copper appears to. If entry standards were raised to at least A-level equivalence, then we'd see a much better, efficient and more effective police force. Plus, better educated people tend to be more secure within themselves, and less inadequate/insecure. Plus, training should be extended to include at least 6 months of law studies. As a bare minimum. Of course, this would lead to a situation where coppers would demand higher wages, and would cost more; yeah, like that is ever gonna happen with this government... A less educated, less 'intelligent' police force is easier to control and command, by those who sit in positions of power. And so it has ever been...
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I know the point you're trying to make and it is valid to a point but I think needs the qualification that passing an exam doesn't mean you'll make a great policeman and not having qualifications doesn't mean you wont make a very good one. I've known many apparently intelligent people who were very probably very unsuitable for any position of power or influence and many apparently barely educated people who were perfectly suited. Such is life and the human condition.
 
AZ6 said:
Someone who isn't going to resort to 'making something up'. We have police by 'consent'. This means officers HAVE to act within a legal framework. This individual clearly didn't. And should therefore be sacked, as he's clearly not fit to do the job.
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As I said. Good luck with that.

I don't know what you do but could you do your job in the knowledge that one sentence you utter could be recorded and get you fired and labelled for life no matter what the back/wider story and circumstance?

Dealing with the public can be a strain at the best of times and all I'm saying is that disgraceful though this looks few things can be viewed in total isolation.
 
It's all down to frustration as the police have no respect and scrotes like this are allowed to be abusive without punishment. In the 70s they'd have been frightened to death
 
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jakeblu said:
He was just spouting at a stroppy youth
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How do you know this?

woof woof said:
As I said. Good luck with that.
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Many people in other highly stressful jobs manage it. As do most coppers, truth be told. So why can't he?

woof woof said:
few things can be viewed in total isolation.
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Hmm. Coppers don't seem to employ such a philosophy, when arresting a homeless person for shoplifting a bit of food, for eg. Nope. Crime = arrest. End of. Ergo; this copper should be treated exactly the same. To argue any other way, is to advocate a 'one rule for them, another rule for us' type of ideology. Are you saying that's what we should have in our society?


dcash29 said:
scotes like this are allowed to be abusive without punishment
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You know all this from one short video clip? How??? I see the Daily Mail is still just popular as ever...
 
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dcash29 said:
It's all down to frustration as the police have no respect and scotes like this are allowed to be abusive without punishment. In the 70s they'd have been frightened to death
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I've restrained people a couple of times until the police turn up and one thing that struck me was that they go from being cock of the walk I know my rights and I'm going come back and do this that and the other to you and your family to crying like a baby and insisting it was someone else and playing every emotional card they can.
 
AZ6 said:
Many people in other highly stressful jobs manage it. As do most coppers, truth be told. So why can't he?
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I know all about stressful jobs but there's a difference between being busy and stressed in what I'll call a mostly emotionally and physically safe ordinary job or profession to being busy, stressed and under physical and emotional stress and threat of real injury as a matter of course.

You do see a difference here don't you?

AZ6 said:
Hmm. Coppers don't seem to employ such a philosophy, when arresting a homeless person for shoplifting a bit of food, for eg. Nope. Crime = arrest. End of. Ergo; this copper should be treated exactly the same. To argue any other way, is to advocate a 'one rule for them, another rule for us' type of ideology. Are you saying that's what we should have in our society?
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Shoplifting is not always a crime committed by polite well meaning individuals reluctantly forced into this by an uncaring Tory government.

Sorry to bubble burst here but it can be a real crime. Ask a few shop workers about their experiences with shoplifters and you may have a different perspective.
 
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woof woof said:
I know all about stressful jobs but there's a difference between being busy and stressed in what I'll call a mostly emotionally and physically safe ordinary job or profession to being busy, stressed and under physical and emotional stress and threat of real injury as a matter of course.

You do see a difference here don't you?
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Nope. Thousands of NHS workers are abused and physically attacked every year. They don't have the powers that police officers have, though. Nor do they have any form of personal physical protection and deterrence, that police officers do, such as stab vests, tazers, batons etc. You do see a difference, don't you?

woof woof said:
Shoplifting is not always a crime committed by polite well meaning individuals reluctantly forced into this by an uncaring Tory government.

Sorry to bubble burst here but it can be a real crime. Ask a few shop workers about their experiences with shoplifters and you may have a different perspective.
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I've worked in retail. I've had to deal with shoplifters. Only one or two ever got aggressive. We just let them go; a few quid 'lost' in profit wasn't worth us risking our safety. It never is. But that's whatabouttery; my point was that if police apply the letter of the law, with no further 'context' considered, then the exact same principle should be applied to this individual. End of.
 
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AZ6 said:
Nope. Thousands of NHS workers are abused and physically attacked every year. They don't have the powers that police officers have, though. Nor do they have any form of personal physical protection and deterrence, that police officers do, such as stab vests, tazers, batons etc. You do see a difference, don't you?
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I'm not sure how we got to the abuse of NHS workers but here we are :D And yes, I see but I think you're maybe in danger of not seeing and losing empathy unnecessarily. I think that people in jobs can still be viewed as people, even those in uniform, there's a line from a Billy Brag song that seems appropriate, "sons and fathers and brothers and lovers." The female sex is missing from that but the point is that we're all someones parent, child... loved one and I do think it's worth knowing more before we condemn no matter how bad something may look at first and selective glance.
 
woof woof said:
I've restrained people a couple of times until the police turn up and one thing that struck me was that they go from being cock of the walk I know my rights and I'm going come back and do this that and the other to you and your family to crying like a baby and insisting it was someone else and playing every emotional card they can.
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You might with certain people Alan, however there are others that phone their mates who come equipped with knives and machetes and are not bothered in using them.
 
AZ6 said:
Hmm. Coppers don't seem to employ such a philosophy, when arresting a homeless person for shoplifting a bit of food, for eg. Nope. Crime = arrest. End of. Ergo; this copper should be treated exactly the same. To argue any other way, is to advocate a 'one rule for them, another rule for us' type of ideology. Are you saying that's what we should have in our society?
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In what way did he break the law?
 
haha I cant believe my little town Accrington made it to TP :)

As for the police... They do bend the law as they see fit..... imagine what it was like pre mobile phones and cctv ? Difference is they have had to be more careful now but like this one some do get caught...and they do LIE ..even in court they lie.. I know this for 100% fact as it happened to me.. just a little lie which was enough to change the whole feel of a situation :(

however like anyhtign else in life.. you shouldnt tar everyone wiht the same brush.... its only a small minority that IMHO shouldnt even wear a uniform... for the most part THE POLICE ARE GREAT! :) and I include my eldest Daughter in that statement :)
 
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KIPAX said:
The OP posted about an incident in Accrington... Well... Its not looking good for Accrington police... a few weeks ago everyone was aghast at this footage that shows a man holding his hands in the air and then lying down on the floor.. then a load of police attack him https://www.lancashiretelegraph.co....ctv-clip-accrington-car-thief-arrest-emerges/
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Looking at that footage the guy crouched down onto the floor to resist being handcuffed. Plus was the hand that flew up towards the initial arresting officer additional resistance or an attack seen by the assisting officer?
 
nilagin said:
And you don't see the irony in that comment.
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You made the comment about assumptions made from watching a short video, yet you have also made your own assumptions from watching the exact same short video.
 
dcash29 said:
Looking at that footage the guy crouched down onto the floor to resist being handcuffed. Plus was the hand that flew up towards the initial arresting officer additional resistance or an attack seen by the assisting officer?
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Whatever it was it didn’t need that response... they just behaved like thugs and really bugger it up for good coppers..
 
gerry s said:
Whatever it was it didn’t need that response... they just behaved like thugs and really bugger it up for good coppers..
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Have they really buggered it up for good coppers though? I am fully aware there are bad coppers about. It doesn't mean I will feel badly about all coppers. The only people likely to feel all coppers will be bad as a result, will be people who have a problem with coppers in the first place.
 
Wrong words that's all, he was saying he could come up with more than enough reasons to lock him up, none of them would be need to be "made up" he could come up with stuff quite easily, the people wanting him sacked should try doing he job and dealing with some of these scumbags on a daily basis.

replace "I will make something up" with "I will think of something" both outcomes would be the same.

My biggest fear is that this type of reporting is all the wrong way, there was no story about these lads breaking the law by being out, it is all about slapping the police when they get things wrong and usually only 1/4 of the story, a very sad sad state of affairs.
 
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nilagin said:
Have they really buggered it up for good coppers though? I am fully aware there are bad coppers about. It doesn't mean I will feel badly about all coppers. The only people likely to feel all coppers will be bad as a result, will be people who have a problem with coppers in the first place.
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You know exactly what I mean...., he simply shouldn’t have said it.
 
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