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thank you, someone with a sensible answer
for what its worth i agree, however i dont think it would be long before local authorities were involved again when they're living in their own waste etc.
and the site receives a small commission
Should we continue to pay benefit to this person
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for what its worth i agree, however i dont think it would be long before local authorities were involved again when they're living in their own waste etc.
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Surely there is only so far someone can sink before they think c'mon, living in squaller is crap and try remedy the situation themselves.
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thank you, someone with a sensible answer
for what its worth i agree, however i dont think it would be long before local authorities were involved again when they're living in their own waste etc.
Sadly all too likely... Some people are beyond help hell it's only in recent months thst I've managed to get my head in the right place, found a diet plan that works for me and I'm making great progress on loosing weight, I've a hell of a long way to go but I've made a good start...
But bullying people into improving there diet will just not work, which is what some would have done...infact I'd go as far as to say in cases like this realistically we probably need to spend more money on her, to get to the bottom of why she is over weight, are there underling medical reasons beyond just poor diet, is there hormanal inbalance causing constant hunger, is there a mental health problem etc...the simple fact is to effectively help people lose weight you've got to work with them on all aspects of their lives...
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Didn't she refuse help?
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I didn't see any mention of psychology help which could be what's needed...she refused the surgery I read that and I also read that she sent the dietitian packing...I've refused the same surgery for my own reasons, and some of the dietitions I've met with can be somewhat draconian in their views on what is and isn't okay and very strict on sticking to a prescribed plan with little to no flexibility, that will not work for all people, there is no universal diet
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Has she actually accepted any help other than state benefits?
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I wouldn't have a clue the article isn't that detailed and fellow fatties don't tend to have a communication network between us, we don't have a psychic bond like twins
The answer to my question is no in all likelihood.
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You don't know that, I don't know that, I personally prefer not to judge someone based on one red top article...
Until you know how hard it is to get proper medical help for obesity you really don't have a clue...I'm lucky to have a very proactive GP who fights to get me any appointments and referrals I need...not that I personally need many...but my doctor does keep in regular contact to check up on how I'm doing....
I'd like to see this woman get all the help she needs, and for them to keep trying to help as long as is needed, I've experienced very poor treatment because of my size but I've also experienced the very best treatment too
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I have had to rely on benefits for nearly 10 years due to ill health. I'm out of it now but would have been in serious problems without it. I think this gives me a unique view point.
I strongly believe that benefits are not an alternative to work. Having said that the system is designed to stop you from returning to work. I had to make sure I could work enough before really trying or I would have to start asking for help all over again. This tory government have failed this major point. I could earn £90/week but then I would lose my benefits. I think benefits should be capped at£1600/m per hous hold (or less). This is the same as £23k pa UK avg wage. No benefit should be paid in cash. Housing should be paid direct to landlord (makes landlord pay tax), food vouchers, and pre paid energy keys.
People argue with me saying you should have a choice on how to spend your benefits. I say if you want choice, you work. Benefit should be the last resort.
At one point I was paying my mortgage & food for the family all out of my benefit when my wife handed in her notice & we still had money spare. That just seems wrong to me
I strongly believe that benefits are not an alternative to work. Having said that the system is designed to stop you from returning to work. I had to make sure I could work enough before really trying or I would have to start asking for help all over again. This tory government have failed this major point. I could earn £90/week but then I would lose my benefits. I think benefits should be capped at£1600/m per hous hold (or less). This is the same as £23k pa UK avg wage. No benefit should be paid in cash. Housing should be paid direct to landlord (makes landlord pay tax), food vouchers, and pre paid energy keys.
People argue with me saying you should have a choice on how to spend your benefits. I say if you want choice, you work. Benefit should be the last resort.
At one point I was paying my mortgage & food for the family all out of my benefit when my wife handed in her notice & we still had money spare. That just seems wrong to me
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I agree with you almost completely I do still think that a small percentage should be paid in cash as sometimes you need cash and there's also the argument especially for some retailer that they shouldn't have to foot the bill of dealing with the vouchers that doubtless they end up doing if they were expected to take food vouchers
D
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So what happens if you need to buy a pair of shoes, or do you consider those luxuries? Doesn't seem like a well thought out policy to me.
D
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Always picking on the detail. I'm sure that can get sorted out
The detail is extremely important in policies!
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If you are on benefit for so long as to needing new pair of shoes by wearing out the old pair, you are on benefit for too long. Although Job Centre could offer shoe vouchers to those actually goes job hunting.
I agree with Peter, benefits should be bare minimal. I'd personally go a step further to dietary vouchers such as 5 potatoes, 4 boxes of meat and £20 of vegetable per week.
Don't get me wrong, I'm all for helping people in need. But the helpee should never have any sense of entitlement. Even state benefits should not be an entitlement to anyone.
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I'm... not as much smaller than that as I'd like to be, and I'd also turn down a band or bypass. I've known several people with them and at best they regain the weight, a lot are slimmer but far more disabled than before it. I have various health issues, any help to tackle my eating other than "only eat x calories a day" isn't there, like how to manage hunger/comfort eating etc. I wonder if the dietician suggested healthier things for her fry up, grilling, better quality sausages, tomato and less bacon.
But I can also walk around a zoo for a day, walk my dog etc. I have pain issues (likely exacerbated but NOT caused by weight) so some days I can't, but... yea. I think you need to be bigger than this to be unable to exercise.
I'm against benefits being changed to vouchers etc., largely as it's unfair on those who cannot and will never be able to walk. My Dad's health is only degenerating. He'd love to be able to work. Punishing people for bad luck seems pretty unfair.
But I can also walk around a zoo for a day, walk my dog etc. I have pain issues (likely exacerbated but NOT caused by weight) so some days I can't, but... yea. I think you need to be bigger than this to be unable to exercise.
I'm against benefits being changed to vouchers etc., largely as it's unfair on those who cannot and will never be able to walk. My Dad's health is only degenerating. He'd love to be able to work. Punishing people for bad luck seems pretty unfair.
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I agree, but this is a forum and not legislation itself
go with the positive intent opposed to getting hung up on detail that doesn't matter in the great scheme of things or get negotiated out anyway.
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Blimey our family doesn't even eat that much
meat is overrated, let's have a nice lentil soup instead
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I don't think anyone is talking about punishing anyone for bad luck. On the contrary I've said it many a time on here, I'd like to see that support increased.
Two keys things for me. Those of working age and capability to earn their own crust should do so. Secondly there is a need for a redefinition of incapable to work, when approximately one fifth of the working age people get some form of disability allowances something is not right. I don't believe it is a really bad gene pool in this country. So something else is going on, and by providing that the government skews and alters the markets by providing subsidies and unfair advantage. I think there is a combination of change of attitudes towards perceived lesser baked people, a further group where it is within their own control to do something about their situation but they clearly refuse to (as per this thread) and I'm sure when spending the time other cohorts can be easily identified.
To me this is key and we should stop pampering to people such that we can look after those that really require it.
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I don't understand because my GP wants me to loose 4st and this is part of her advice. Ask any dietician
I don't just blame her for her condition, rather than a system which gives this level of award. Even if the minimum wage rises to £7 an hour, that's still only £280 a week prior to taxes for being in full time employment. Factor in free rent and council tax and her entitlement is approx. £900. Mine is around £160
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Very wide topic with lots of shades of grey............
I haven't read the article in question but find it hard to justify someone being classed as disabled just because they've become so fat. Yes, there are medical reasons that would make you become obese but in the majority of cases it's a case of a slow metabolism and fast pie arm.
We make choices on a daily basis, a lot of these are around what we put in our mouths and how much we move. At the beginning of Jan last year I weighed around 16st, obese in terms of BMI (I'm 5ft 11in tall) I looked like I was carrying a few extra pounds but not to the point where people would say "That bloke looks fat".
It would have been a lot easier for me to just buy bigger clothes and carry on eating copious amounts of crap, especially given that at that point in time my Nan was in hospital unlikely to be coming out, I thought i was going to be sacked and my wife was 4 months pregnant and there was a running battle between her and her sister because we were inconsiderate enough to have a baby the same year as her sister was getting married.
Anyway, I decided to kerb my eating and managed to lose a stone in just over a month.
One of my Granddads on the other hand died at the age of 65, I remember him being fat when I was a young kid, by the time I'd reached my teenage years he was around 24st which at a height of 5ft 4in doesn't take a lot to work out isn't good. Over the years the health problems gradually increased along with mobility problems. A few times he tried to lose a little weight but always reverted back to eating crap (whilst laying down) and doing as little as possible. In the mean time he was receiving disability benefit and getting a brand new car every 3 years.
Personally I think it's a massive kick in the teeth for the people that go out an earn a living and make choices not to end up fat and immobile.
I haven't read the article in question but find it hard to justify someone being classed as disabled just because they've become so fat. Yes, there are medical reasons that would make you become obese but in the majority of cases it's a case of a slow metabolism and fast pie arm.
We make choices on a daily basis, a lot of these are around what we put in our mouths and how much we move. At the beginning of Jan last year I weighed around 16st, obese in terms of BMI (I'm 5ft 11in tall) I looked like I was carrying a few extra pounds but not to the point where people would say "That bloke looks fat".
It would have been a lot easier for me to just buy bigger clothes and carry on eating copious amounts of crap, especially given that at that point in time my Nan was in hospital unlikely to be coming out, I thought i was going to be sacked and my wife was 4 months pregnant and there was a running battle between her and her sister because we were inconsiderate enough to have a baby the same year as her sister was getting married.
Anyway, I decided to kerb my eating and managed to lose a stone in just over a month.
One of my Granddads on the other hand died at the age of 65, I remember him being fat when I was a young kid, by the time I'd reached my teenage years he was around 24st which at a height of 5ft 4in doesn't take a lot to work out isn't good. Over the years the health problems gradually increased along with mobility problems. A few times he tried to lose a little weight but always reverted back to eating crap (whilst laying down) and doing as little as possible. In the mean time he was receiving disability benefit and getting a brand new car every 3 years.
Personally I think it's a massive kick in the teeth for the people that go out an earn a living and make choices not to end up fat and immobile.
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@Rapscallion I'd have clothing vouchers too.
@wuyanxu remember I'm talking about ALL benefits. ESA is also paid for long term sick I.e. mentally ill, paralysed etc etc.
The only benefits paid in cash would be the new DLA, as this is to help disabled people try to live a normal life; it isn't means tested meaning you can work and still get the higher amount.
I do believe the original scheme was setup using prices from an everyday shopping basket although this may just be urban legend
@wuyanxu remember I'm talking about ALL benefits. ESA is also paid for long term sick I.e. mentally ill, paralysed etc etc.
The only benefits paid in cash would be the new DLA, as this is to help disabled people try to live a normal life; it isn't means tested meaning you can work and still get the higher amount.
I do believe the original scheme was setup using prices from an everyday shopping basket although this may just be urban legend
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totally agree. I went back to the article, and assuming that the journalist has reported the situation accurately then we have someone who clearly thinks the world owes her a living while at the same time has rejected advice regarding her obesity and (free) surgery to initiate weight loss
It's not rocket science in that a (simplified) statement is that if your calorific intake exceeds that used in the course of your actibities then this will be converted into fat
and why can't the boyfriend clean the house? Most of us either have to do it ourselves or pay someone to do the work
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So we have vouchers.
How much? or are the fuel vouchers open? Which means I can live in a hot house or freeze at the whim of a government committee.
Food - how much and what type? - even the dieticians can't agree on what is a correct diet. So why not supply food parcels directly? You, on benefits are only allowed to eat this menu each week.
I already live as frugally as possible, eating cheaply and not heating my home in order to have funds for such things as photography etc.
Excercise - why not fir everyone with a band/tracker to monitor their exercise levels? There is a Canadian insurance company who are monitoring a claimant in this way to ensure that she is as badly injured as she claims.
Rent - How much again? My rent payment is significantly lower than my actual rent. Do I offer my landlord food or rnergy vouchers as my shortfall.
Internet - should we permit clamants to have internet - after all the government is trying to make all forms electronic ow. If so do we permit all internet or do we select what is permissable?
etc,etc
I do think that the advocates of the voucher system have failed to consider he practicalities.
How much? or are the fuel vouchers open? Which means I can live in a hot house or freeze at the whim of a government committee.
Food - how much and what type? - even the dieticians can't agree on what is a correct diet. So why not supply food parcels directly? You, on benefits are only allowed to eat this menu each week.
I already live as frugally as possible, eating cheaply and not heating my home in order to have funds for such things as photography etc.
Excercise - why not fir everyone with a band/tracker to monitor their exercise levels? There is a Canadian insurance company who are monitoring a claimant in this way to ensure that she is as badly injured as she claims.
Rent - How much again? My rent payment is significantly lower than my actual rent. Do I offer my landlord food or rnergy vouchers as my shortfall.
Internet - should we permit clamants to have internet - after all the government is trying to make all forms electronic ow. If so do we permit all internet or do we select what is permissable?
etc,etc
I do think that the advocates of the voucher system have failed to consider he practicalities.
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Blimey our family doesn't even eat that much
Meats a luxury not a right. You can survive without it. That's all benefits should be about. The bare necessities to survive. IMHO.
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Very wrong humans naturally are omnivores and as such a healthy and balanced diet also features meat, can we survive without meat, yeah technically we can but that's not the point, most vegitaarians find other sources of the minerals etc thst they would get from meat from either supliments and or other food sources how many of those foods would be seen as luxury food rather than bare essentials? I'll be honest being a meat eater I don't really know sufficient about the vegi diet to comment further maybe some of the forum Vegis can
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Vegetarians (which I'm not
) don't seem to be falling prematurely all around us or clogging up hospital beds due to health issues.I'd wager if I did have to give up meat due to financial constraints I'd survive.
I enjoyed this post immensely.
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Vegetarians (which I'm not
I'd wager if I did have to give up meat due to financial constraints I'd survive.
I enjoyed this post immensely.
Sure if in were to hit Google I could find potential health issues but I'm really bothered, it is however widely agreed that meat is a perfectly healthy food as part of what we should all be eating which is a healthy and balanced diet, I'm not going to preach on diet as until just a few months ago I had one of the worst diets going but have taken huge steps to improve my lifestyle
Oh and for the record it's also perfectly possible to be a vegetarian and also over weight
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Oh what the hell. Let's punish all benefit claimants regardless of type of benefit ie sickness, unemployment, tax credits, pension credits, housing benefits, industrial injury benefits, war pensions etc etc and even state pension which comes under the umberella of "welfare" Yes, let's punish them and stigmatise them for situations which are not always under their control for the minute few who abuse the system.
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Are tax credits not a benefit too?
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See when I worked in debt recovery (an eye opening experience) there were folk say getting CHB, working tax credit, child tax credit that practically doubled their net income. Now, these people were behind in arrears for loans, credit cards. The amount of debit card entries (we used to set off credit balances in current accounts for arrears in loans, credit cards) for cinema tickets, MacDonalds etc were staggering. So called people on the benefits that were skint (so were on benefits), yet could blow £50 at the cinema, £40 at MacDonalds every fortnight or so. Never mind reams of entries at Burtons, River Island....
Some people need to get a grip on what is actual real poverty rather than make believe labour government hand out socialist state poverty.
It is not impossible to survive healthily on a food budget of £1/day
http://www.brightknowledge.org/know...ing-money-management/how-to-live-on-a31-a-day
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-22263706
This is what benefits life should be, not fry ups and the government subsidising your salary you to the extent you can eat in fast food places and go to the movies at the drop of a hat.
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If you can survive of £1/day and the benefit affords trips to the movies and MacDonalds then there are problems.
Do you think the government should support luxuries. Life on benefits should be as Austere as it possibly can be.
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Let me share a story about benefits via vouchers and why that doesn't work.
Back in 2003/2004ish I worked in internal audit for a national clothing retailer.
You may or may not know this, but back then asylum seekers entering the UK were paid benefits in vouchers in much the way suggested further up the thread until such a time that their claim to asylum was either accepted or rejected.
Clothing vouchers, food vouchers etc and a network of retailers signed up to accept those vouchers.
We ended up pulling out of that scheme after 2 years because we were actually making a loss on it due to damaged stock.
People didn't want clothing vouchers, they wanted cash and the freedom to spend it how they chose.
Vouchers couldn't be sold on or transferred because each voucher bore the name of the individual on the front and had to be presented with i.d. in order to be spent.
So what used to happen was, person would come into store and buy clothing with the voucher as intended.
A couple of days later the item would be returned as damaged with either a torn seam, dropped hem, rip, tear etc for a refund.
Since we couldn't refund by asylum seekers' voucher, said person would walk away with a cash refund.
We could never prove that the person had damaged the stock themselves (although the statistics and correlation to voucher sales strongly suggested it)
We couldn't legally refuse to refund faulty goods.
We ended up giving out cash and accumulating a pile of damaged items that couldn't be re-sold.
And that's why I don't think a voucher scheme would ever work.
*NB: Please let's not turn this thread into another debate about immigration. I've only used that particular scenario as a first hand example of the drawback of voucher schemes.
Back in 2003/2004ish I worked in internal audit for a national clothing retailer.
You may or may not know this, but back then asylum seekers entering the UK were paid benefits in vouchers in much the way suggested further up the thread until such a time that their claim to asylum was either accepted or rejected.
Clothing vouchers, food vouchers etc and a network of retailers signed up to accept those vouchers.
We ended up pulling out of that scheme after 2 years because we were actually making a loss on it due to damaged stock.
People didn't want clothing vouchers, they wanted cash and the freedom to spend it how they chose.
Vouchers couldn't be sold on or transferred because each voucher bore the name of the individual on the front and had to be presented with i.d. in order to be spent.
So what used to happen was, person would come into store and buy clothing with the voucher as intended.
A couple of days later the item would be returned as damaged with either a torn seam, dropped hem, rip, tear etc for a refund.
Since we couldn't refund by asylum seekers' voucher, said person would walk away with a cash refund.
We could never prove that the person had damaged the stock themselves (although the statistics and correlation to voucher sales strongly suggested it)
We couldn't legally refuse to refund faulty goods.
We ended up giving out cash and accumulating a pile of damaged items that couldn't be re-sold.
And that's why I don't think a voucher scheme would ever work.
*NB: Please let's not turn this thread into another debate about immigration. I've only used that particular scenario as a first hand example of the drawback of voucher schemes.
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Yes. It's a life support machine, not a device to put you on a massive high.
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Ungrateful gits....
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Your really living in cloud cuckoo land of you think the majority of making loads of money out of it, doubtless the top 5% of legitimate claimants (not committing some kind of fraud) have a flipping good income out of it, most however that get the higher rates often live in the areas with higher living expenses (rent etc) however the vast majority are not making loads of money as the tabloids would have you believe, there benefits system does need massive reform though ironically to do it right would actually cost the country a small fortune...