Shutter speed, aperture, iso rule of thumb

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granty84

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Having finally worked out how to change all these settings and messing about working out what makes a lighter picture with a faster shutter speed and slower speeds etc
Is there a basic rule of thumb on the settings or is it just trial and error until you get the balance correct?
 
Yup, "Sunny 16". On a bright day (i.e. one with strong shadows from the sun), set your aperture to f/16 and your shutter speed to whatever is closest to your iso (i.e. 1/100s for ISO 100). It's a starting point and as you get used to it, you can then work out what to do for dimmer light - I use f/11 to f/13 as the aperture for cloudy days.
 
Keeping an eye on the exposure scale in the VF is a good start. I find it best to either keep the exposure cursor central or if possible to try and expose to the right with the intent of backing it off later in post capture processing.

Other than that don't use really small aperture unless you know what you are doing and why, try and keep the shutter speed high enough to avoid camera shake and keep the ISO to lower values to ensure the best image quality.

It's just a balancing act really.
 
Not sure there can be a general rule of thumb and why should there be?

Depends what aperture and shutter speed you want for whatever light is out there doesn't it?
Using F16 at 1/100 is not something I would do as I would use F7 at 1/500 as I prefer higher shutter speeds as my rule of thumb and we all have different thumbs...
 
We all have different thumbs, yes. But when your a complete beginner you hope someone else's thumb is there to help
 
Cuchulainn said:
Yup, "Sunny 16". On a bright day (i.e. one with strong shadows from the sun), set your aperture to f/16 and your shutter speed to whatever is closest to your iso (i.e. 1/100s for ISO 100). It's a starting point and as you get used to it, you can then work out what to do for dimmer light - I use f/11 to f/13 as the aperture for cloudy days.
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The Sunny 16 rule is indeed a rule of thumb, but you have to remember its not about shooting at F16. So on a sunny day I may end up with an 1/8000 shutter speed in order to get a shallow enough depth of field.

So the rule of thumb kind of makes you have to think too much.

A simpler rule of thumb is to aim for the lowest iso. On film we shot 100ISO on sunny days, 400 in the winter, we could rarely go beyond 800 so low light natural light photography is due to digital making it easy for us.
 
granty84 said:
Having finally worked out how to change all these settings and messing about working out what makes a lighter picture with a faster shutter speed and slower speeds etc
Is there a basic rule of thumb on the settings or is it just trial and error until you get the balance correct?
Click to expand...

I would start with Av and Tv modes and use the exposure compensation feature if you think the auto exposure feature is giving you something too dark or too bright.

Use Av when you want to control depth of field
Use Tv when you know you want to freeze or show a sense of movement

It's good to experiment in manual mode so you understand the relationship between shutter speed, aperture and ISO....
 
granty84 said:
We all have different thumbs, yes. But when your a complete beginner you hope someone else's thumb is there to help
Click to expand...

What I was saying is that there is no rule of thumb, you know the three variables and as long as they combine to give the right exposure (as per meter) you can use any combination you require.

Or you could have a list of rules of thumb;

1. Low DoF sunny day (F2, 1/1000, 100)
2. Low DoF cloudy day (F2, 1/250, 100)
3. Low shutter speed, cloudy day (F8, 1/25, 400)
nn. etc,.
 
Umm, I wasn't suggesting that you only ever shoot at the aperture given by the sunny 16 rule - it gives you a decent exposure that you then change according to your needs!
 
Tbh I'm not sure of the point of the sunny 16 rule these days - fine in the past when you shot film with a camera with no meter, but these days if you are shooting digital you are best off trusting your meter with perhaps some exposure comp.
 
Indeed. Sunny 16 makes no sense at all to me especially in these days as metering is generally rather good (IMVHO) and it's possibly a good idea to expose to the right and correct later to get the best dynamic range.

Also, one point I nearly made earlier is to get to know your equipment and how to get the best out of it. For example I usually like to keep my ISO to the lowest possible setting but it could be possible (if what we read on the net is true) that your camera gives better results at 200 than 100.
 
no rule of thumb.. esp the one quoted as it would be pretty useles if there was anyhting moving in the picture..

also the rule of thumb about aiming for the lowest iso is completly bonkers.. I personally hate using anyhting below iso 400.. thats my starting point on a 1dmkIV .. if I was using a 50 quid camera it would be less...

you cant have a rule of thumb for all cameras and all situations because there are too many variables such as camera bodies or lens.
 
the only rule of thumb i try to stick to is to keep my shutter speed at least the same number as my focal length. ie. shooting with a 50mm, i want a minimum of 1/50th to avoid camera shake (hand held) - so i adjust ISO or aperture to suit.

Obviously this is only for hand held situations and with no flash :thumbs:
 
For anyone interested in Sunny 16 the top row here shows manually set Sunny 16 exposures for my 7D, 1D3 and 5D2 respectively. The second row shows the results of using evaluative metering and Av mode, with the 7D and 5D2 exposing a full 1 stop brighter and the 1D3 exposing 2/3 stop brighter. These were shot raw and are presented in Lightroom 3 with no adjustments.

20120417_154116_.JPG


The 7D had a bit of highlight clipping in the clouds and the football, the 5D2 in the football only. The 1D3 nailed it. That said, all the exposures have fallen within a manageable working tolerance, for raw captures. I suspect that if I had shot to JPEG the outcome would not have been so pleasant for the highlights when shooting in Av mode. You've got to be careful with these things when the highlights really matter, such as with a wedding dress or a swan's plumage. If in doubt check the histogram and have highlight clipping warnings enabled so you can check for overexposure where you can't afford to have it.
 
tdodd said:
For anyone interested in Sunny 16 the top row here shows manually set Sunny 16 exposures for my 7D, 1D3 and 5D2 respectively. The second row shows the results of using evaluative metering and Av mode, with the 7D and 5D2 exposing a full 1 stop brighter and the 1D3 exposing 2/3 stop brighter. These were shot raw and are presented in Lightroom 3 with no adjustments.

20120417_154116_.JPG


The 7D had a bit of highlight clipping in the clouds and the football, the 5D2 in the football only. The 1D3 nailed it. That said, all the exposures have fallen within a manageable working tolerance, for raw captures. I suspect that if I had shot to JPEG the outcome would not have been so pleasant for the highlights when shooting in Av mode. You've got to be careful with these things when the highlights really matter, such as with a wedding dress or a swan's plumage. If in doubt check the histogram and have highlight clipping warnings enabled so you can check for overexposure where you can't afford to have it.
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Nice test Tim.

One thing to note (and I'm not saying that you're not aware of this!) is that Sunny 16 is really only for super bright Mediterranean noon type "sunny". Even on a bright summer day here it can be slightly off. Certainly at this time of the year it wouldn't surprise me to have it underexpose slightly and I tend to use a "Sunny 13" workaround most of the year. However, as I mainly use it on old film bodies with no inbuilt meters and negative (as opposed to slide) film that has a lot of exposure lattitude, it works well for me.
 
I find that "Sunny 16" is a very good starting point in sunny conditions, but that doesn't mean there isn't room to refine things. Some cameras do have a habit of telling porky pies about their true ISO performance. The 5D2 is about 1/2 stop off the pace at 100 ISO, which would explain some of the shortfall - pretty much all of it actually when trying to dial in a Sunny 16 exposure.

Measured ISO sensitivity for my three cameras as determined by DXOMark....

20120417_172957_.JPG


I do find that Sunny 16 works very well when highlight protection is essential - when photographing dazzling subjects like swans. It really depends not only on the strength of the sun, but also the scene content. Here's an example (raw and unedited) where I had to dial the exposure 2/3 dimmer than Sunny 16 because the critical subject was that bright, and this was in Colchester.....

20120417_153845_000.jpg


That's not a subject that's easily metered, but by setting a manual exposure and chimping a couple of shots I was able to get dialed in for perfection. Sunny 16 was blowing important detail.
 
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use the lowest iso, that will let you have the aperture you want and still keep a fast enough shutter speed.
 
tdodd said:
Some cameras do have a habit of telling porky pies about their true ISO performance.

I do find that Sunny 16 works very well when highlight protection is essential - when photographing dazzling subjects like swans. It really depends not only on the strength of the sun, but also the scene content.
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Some good points.

I'd also add the fact that even (especially?) with digital, it can be a useful exercise to stick the camera on manual from time to time and then see what settings give what exposures. I've permanently got a small exposure guide from here laminated and in my wallet - it's just a useful way to check if things are sensible!
 
tdodd said:
For anyone interested in Sunny 16...
Click to expand...

Well, yes, looking at that garden scene it's perfectly easy to see why you've got those results and why S16 is no good for a white bird. You have to make choices and YMMV.

Personally because it almost never works (IMVHO) S16 is consigned to my history book and the cameras meter plus exposure compensation if / when are what I use. I find evaluative most useful unless photographing something bright against a mostly darker background like your bird, but my example would be white flowers, and in that case I find spot a good starting point. Too much either way can lead to highlight clipping or having to boost the shadows too much.

I think that micro four thirds (and other similar systems) offer an advantage here as you can have an in view histogram and it's pretty much full time 100% WYSIWYG when used with a manual lens.
 
Well I think I've definitely opened a can of worms here with no definitive answer but alot of tips
 
Sorry to raise Sunny 16 again, but I just remembered a shot I took last year to show what my Sekonic meter thought of a bright, sunny day.

1/800 at f/8 and 200 ISO - pretty close, I reckon....

20110929_141214_1310_LR.jpg


so long as the camera sensitivity is calibrated accurately.
 
im very new to photography and decided to go on a cheap, basic course to learn a bit about it and my camera, was very useful and i learnt a bit about what everything does/means and how to adjust them but am still a bit lost as to what to set things to when taking a photo. i went out the other day and took the same picture using various different settings but to be honest looking at them afterwards im still not sure. i guess its trial and error. it was a dull day in a wooded area so probably not ideal but my beginners conclusion with my basic kit lens was keep iso and aperture as low as possible at least that seemed to give me the better shots that day.
 
I too am a beginner and I got some really good advice from the members that I would like to share.
All of the setting can be overwhelming when starting out. The advise that I got was this.
With the exposure triangle in mind try to prioritize what is the most important aspect of the shoot first and make that setting. For instance, say your shooting your son running around. For that you would need to stop the action so adjust the shutter speed first and make the other adjustments around it to achieve proper exposure. If dof is your priority adjust apiture first and so on.
This is some of the most useful advise I have got here. It helped me get over the overwhelming amount of choices I had to make each time. I hope it helps.
 
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