Shutter Speed

[Steve_o]

Hi,

I've been learning photography (basics rather) for just over a year now. But one thing that has eluded me is how professionals can reel off what shutter speed I should use for any given scenario.

For example, I was told that for overcast landscapes I should use a Shutter Speed of 1/15.

How would you know that 1/15 would be an appropriate shutter speed? Why not 1/20?

I imagine it comes with experience at the end of the day, but if I wanted to blur a moving train, I could not immediately think of the right shutter speed without experimenting with a few different ones first (and snapping many other trains)

 

[leepunyer]

The thing is this is all relevant to ISO and Aperture.

I very much doubt they could tell you 1/15 or 1/20 as this is too close to judge.
but its definitely not 1/1600 on a cloudy day.

you get used to shooting and eventually can work out what rough speed you'll use.

I prefer to use Aperture mode where i can adjust the Depth of Field and let the camera do the rest.

 

[TCR4x4]

Its impossible to say you should use any given shutter speed for any particular event, because light is ever changing.
You can give a rough ball park, but you could never say exactly dead on you need such and such.

 

[Garry Edwards]

You're right, and all that pro photographers (or any experienced photographer) can do is to tell you which shutter speed they would use...

There's a rule of thumb that's useful: the shutter speed should relate to the focal length of the lens in use, assuming that the lens is fitted to a full frame camera - for example, a 50mm lens fitted to a full frame camera is likely to need a shutter speed of 1/50th second, this is to reduce the risk of camera shake. On a typical cropped-sensor camera, that would equate to 1/75th second.

But people vary. Some people can't hold a camera still whatever they do, and need to use really fast shutter speeds to avoid camera shake. And I'm an experienced rifle shooter, which is probably why I can manage with very long shutter speeds.

And then there's subject type, you might want to blur subject movement, or you might want to freeze the movement.

And then there's subject magnification. If you fill the frame with a moving subject you'll need a much higher shutter speed to freeze the movement than if you don't.

And then there's subject direction. If the subject is moving across the frame you'll need a much higher shutter speed to freeze the movement than if it's moving straight towards or away from the camera.

Experience can be a massive help, but at the end of the day it comes down to your personal capability, your camera/lens combination, the type of subject, the amount of subject movement, the effect you want to achieve and some quick mental arithmetic.

 

[modchild]

Most of the time I'll look at the scene and decide what DOF I want to create the look I'm after first so I'll select an aperture to suit, then I'll decide whether I need a certain shutter speed to get the shot and then adjust the ISO to finish off the exposure I want.
If I'm not too worried about the DOF then I'll select the shutter speed to get the shot I want and then adjust the rest to suit. I don't think there's a hard and fast rule to shutter speed as too much depends on the subject to just say "ok, it's overcast so I have to shoot at 1/15" or wow, it's sunny so I have to shoot at 1/4000"

 

[Steve_o]

I have to admit Shutter Speed is something I really struggle with as a beginner.

For example, I've been photographing my friend's band when they rehearse, mainly for practice. However, I find that 8/10 photos are blurred as a member of the band as slightly moved during exposure.

Unfortunately, I am more concerned about the depth of field and so shoot in Aperture Mode using around F10 upwards. As such, I don't compensate for motion blur.

(this is all based upon using an 18-55mm)

I agree with the above comments that it is impossible to quote any specific shutter speed in any given situation. This is why I found it odd that someone was so specific.

 

[TCR4x4]

I have to admit Shutter Speed is something I really struggle with as a beginner.

For example, I've been photographing my friend's band when they rehearse, mainly for practice. However, I find that 8/10 photos are blurred as a member of the band as slightly moved during exposure.

Unfortunately, I am more concerned about the depth of field and so shoot in Aperture Mode using around F10 upwards. As such, I don't compensate for motion blur.

(this is all based upon using an 18-55mm)

I agree with the above comments that it is impossible to quote any specific shutter speed in any given situation. This is why I found it odd that someone was so specific.

You don't need an aperture anywhere near high for a single person, your shutter speeds must be horrendous! I used to shoot a lot of bands, both on large international stages and small local pubs. I used to use ISO 1600 and f/2.8 as a starting point and even then my shutter was often still not ideal. Get your aperture down as low as you can, up the ISO, focus on the eyes and you might have better luck.

 

[Steve_o]

You don't need an aperture anywhere near high for a single person, your shutter speeds must be horrendous! I used to shoot a lot of bands, both on large international stages and small local pubs. I used to use ISO 1600 and f/2.8 as a starting point and even then my shutter was often still not ideal. Get your aperture down as low as you can, up the ISO, focus on the eyes and you might have better luck.

I don't think I've gone into detail regarding the band I photograph.

It's certainly more than one person and they are gigging at the moment. They are just rehearsing as they have been awarded recording time in a studio.

So the room they hire is pretty small and quite well lit (given the time of day, usually from 6-7pm). I use a high aperture given the amount of light already available and not wanting to overexpose. (This is my understanding when photographing, but if it's completely wrong, please correct my train of thought)

 

[TCR4x4]

I don't think I've gone into detail regarding the band I photograph.

It's certainly more than one person and they are gigging at the moment. They are just rehearsing as they have been awarded recording time in a studio.

So the room they hire is pretty small and quite well lit (given the time of day, usually from 6-7pm). I use a high aperture given the amount of light already available and not wanting to overexpose. (This is my understanding when photographing, but if it's completely wrong, please correct my train of thought)

Im not questioning the status of the band you are shooting, could be Iron Maiden for all I care, Im saying from my experience of venues and rehearsal space from the biggest bands to the smallest bands, the light is often rubbish, and I would rarely consider using an aperture above f/4 really.

If the place is well lit, but you are still getting motion blur, then your aperture is too high and your shutter too slow.

 

[Steve_o]

Im not questioning the status of the band you are shooting, could be Iron Maiden for all I care, Im saying from my experience of venues and rehearsal space from the biggest bands to the smallest bands, the light is often rubbish, and I would rarely consider using an aperture above f/4 really.

If the place is well lit, but you are still getting motion blur, then your aperture is too high and your shutter too slow.

It's O.K, I know you weren't questioning. I was explaining just to give you an insight in regards to the set up and my understanding of how I photograph them.

Thanks for the tips, I'll be sure to remember that.

 

[leepunyer]

So the room they hire is pretty small and quite well lit (given the time of day, usually from 6-7pm). I use a high aperture given the amount of light already available and not wanting to overexpose. (This is my understanding when photographing, but if it's completely wrong, please correct my train of thought)

If you use a larger Aperture as already mentioned for instance say F4,
The amount of light allowed in would increase.

However in Aperture Mode, ISO and Shutter would alter Automatically.

So if you also set and ISO of 800 or 1600. The shutter would then become faster because you have said there is good light.

This in turn would not blur the photo.

Remember the exposure Triangle with ISO, Aperture and Shutter on the points with (Correct) exposure in the middle,

By altering 1 point the others adjust accordingly,

 

[Phil V]

However in Aperture Mode, ISO and Shutter would alter Automatically.
.
,

Not all cameras have Auto ISO, and even where they do it has to be set by the user.

 

[Russ77]

I think in the scenario above, setting the shutter speed to something that stops motion blurring would have to be the priority.

From my experience this would be from about 1/60 and upwards, then set aperture and ISO to get the correct exposure. Don't be afraid of bumping up the ISO, noisy shots aren't the end of the World and can be edited, however if they're blurry there's not much hope of recovering them.

As other's have also said, F11 seems too high, I would drop it down as low as you can go and see how you get on. Take serveral images of each band member in focus, then perhaps try to increase the aperture to get more of them in focus.

At least that way you should get several keepers of each band member, you could make use of some artistic license and "storyboard" them

 

[Steve_o]

If you use a larger Aperture as already mentioned for instance say F4,
The amount of light allowed in would increase.

However in Aperture Mode, ISO and Shutter would alter Automatically.

So if you also set and ISO of 800 or 1600. The shutter would then become faster because you have said there is good light.

This in turn would not blur the photo.

Remember the exposure Triangle with ISO, Aperture and Shutter on the points with (Correct) exposure in the middle,

By altering 1 point the others adjust accordingly,

I really struggle with the triangle.

I usually set the ISO to around 200 (or leave it on Auto most of the time) and then just set my desired aperture.

But understand the effects of one and the other, I find really hard to remember and identify.

 

[woof woof]

Steve,

If you have a digital camera shooting is pretty much free. Maybe you could play with aperture, shutter speed and ISO settings and view the results any changes make on your pc. I think that practical demonstrations are much better than theory and paperwork Personally I almost always go for a cursor in the middle of the scale exposure or even better if possible expose to the right and then back it off a bit in post capture processing. I personally don't use any "Sunny 16" type rules or memorised or guessed settings if I can meter and go from there

In your place, shooting bands, I'd almost certainly start with Aperture priority (I tend to think in aperture priority and use it most of the time) and keep an eye on the ISO and shutter speed. I don't know what lens you are using but generally speaking if shooting hand held with available light the longer the lens the faster you'll want the shutter speed to be. I'll be happiest when shooting with a shutter speed much faster than the focal length of the lens. For example if using a 50mm lens I'll be happiest if I can keep my shutter speed over 1/100 sec, twice the 50mm focal length. If the shutter speed drops to 1/50 or slower I'd expect my keeper rate to drop and my reject rate to rise. Slow shutter speeds may be do-able but expect rejects, for example I once got a great shot with a 20mm lens and a 1 second shutter speed but I wouldn't bet on being able to do it again, if ever With a longer lens like an 85mm I'd want an even faster shutter speed than I'd want with a 50mm. Gettit?? Shoot with a tripod and you'll avoid camera shake and "all" you'll need is a shutter speed fast enough to capture the action without too much blur. Shoot with flash and the game changes again.

ISO is pretty easy, the lower the better unless you're aiming for characterful grain. What I do is try and get the aperture and shutter speed I'm happy with at the lowest possible ISO but I'll increase the ISO so that I can (hopefully) use the aperture and shutter speed I'm happy with.

Anyway, starting with aperture but keeping an eye on shutter speed and ISO I'd dial in a good compromise and get on with it. Sometimes the widest of apertures need to be used but distance increases DoF so hopefully it wont be too much of an issue. If you think that your settings are right on the limit of what'll get you a keeper try and take more than one shot.

Here's an extreme shot for my camera. Not a band on stage, just a fishing shot from Kazakhstan. It's 50mm, f1.4, 1/30 second and ISO 3200 (and I was off my head on vodka.) Here non of the settings are ideal... with a 50mm lens I'd really not want to shoot as slow as 1/30 sec, f1.4 gives shallow DoF when this close to the subject and ISO 3200 can give noise... I was pushing things to the limit but managed to get a useable shot. Just goes to show that a shot is worth taking even if settings are on the limit and you think it might be a reject.

 

[weybourne]

I really struggle with the triangle.

I usually set the ISO to around 200 (or leave it on Auto most of the time) and then just set my desired aperture.

But understand the effects of one and the other, I find really hard to remember and identify.

Here's an extract from something I posted in another thread that I hope will help in understanding exposure and its components.

"Leaving ISO out of the equation to make things simpler (there now follows an analogy that i'm not responsible for, but I believe is a good one), imagine exposure to be like filling a bucket with water - you need a fixed amount of water (light) to fill the bucket to the right level (correct exposure). You can open the tap fully or let it trickle (this is like aperture - the size of the hole determines how much can come through it) and you can leave the tap on for ages or you can give a quick burst (this is shutter speed - the longer the shutter is open, the more light passes through)."​

I would add that a high ISO has the same effect as making the bucket smaller - so that you don't need the tap on as long (shorter/faster shutter speed) or you can have it trickling instead of full-belt (higher f number instead of lowest possible). The analogy isn't perfect but I think it helps understand the relationships between exposure variables.