Silly question, replica weapons...

J

John.D

Messages
335
Name
John
Edit My Images
No
Hey, probably a stupid question,

I have a load of gas masks from shots ages ago that I want to make use of again. There's an old railway, as in really overgrown, you can only get into through a hole in the fence etc, near me that I want to perhaps create some sort of post apocolyptic shot, someone walking across the track etc, long trenchcoat that kind of thing. I really like the idea of him holding a weapon over his back, but for obvious reasons these days that's not going to happen.
Is there any way around it? Obviously I don't mean a real gun, my friend says get a bb gun and spray it or something, but as I said - if it's realistic enough to work in the shot, it's realistic enough for the cops to shoot you if they see you with it.
Perhaps it's possible to ask for permission, maybe even if a cop has to accompany you on the shoot. I've seen weapons used in shots before, but i'm guessing they're in other countries though where the laws are different.

/end stupid question that makes me look dumb.
 
John.D said:
Hey, probably a stupid question,

I have a load of gas masks from shots ages ago that I want to make use of again. There's an old railway, as in really overgrown, you can only get into through a hole in the fence etc, near me that I want to perhaps create some sort of post apocolyptic shot, someone walking across the track etc, long trenchcoat that kind of thing. I really like the idea of him holding a weapon over his back, but for obvious reasons these days that's not going to happen.
Is there any way around it? Obviously I don't mean a real gun, my friend says get a bb gun and spray it or something, but as I said - if it's realistic enough to work in the shot, it's realistic enough for the cops to shoot you if they see you with it.
Perhaps it's possible to ask for permission, maybe even if a cop has to accompany you on the shoot. I've seen weapons used in shots before, but i'm guessing they're in other countries though where the laws are different.

/end stupid question that makes me look dumb.
Click to expand...



No way around it, under the firearms act it is still a firearm but there is an exemption that means that no licence is required, therefore all the firearms act applies but you do not need the licence, i do not see anyway that you are going to get the go ahead as having it uncovered in a public place is an offence, Thats why you see so many cases of people being nicked and prosocuted for it.
 
I see. Well maybe i'll just stick to my gas masks and long trenchcoat idea. Hopefully I won't get into much trouble with that... We're going as a group, all carrying cameras and tripods so it should be obvious what we're doing. Obviously if there is anyone around at the time we'll ask permission before we go in. That's if we actually go. At the moment its just an idea.
 
I don't know where you are based, but try contacting a local Airsoft site, they will have loads of replica bb guns which they might hire (or I'm sure you could borrow off a player at lunch time). So long as the photo shoot is on their private site, no problems.
 
I would drop into the local Police station and actually ask their advice, I am sure they would be supportive and if they know your plans may have a foot patrol walk past just for public re-assurance.

Always good to have them on side.
 
dseered said:
I would drop into the local Police station and actually ask their advice, I am sure they would be supportive and if they know your plans may have a foot patrol walk past just for public re-assurance.

Always good to have them on side.
Click to expand...

ask the police to come and watch you trespassing, maybe not the best idea!
 
John, just pop into your local station or contact the local firearms liason officer and advise them that you will be doing a photoshoot, using only replica weapons & where & when you intend to do it, there should be no problems at all & any reports that they were to recieve from the public, could then be dealt with, without unnecessary calls going out to the firearms unit. :rules:
 
Davec223 said:
No way around it, under the firearms act it is still a firearm but there is an exemption that means that no licence is required, therefore all the firearms act applies but you do not need the licence, i do not see anyway that you are going to get the go ahead as having it uncovered in a public place is an offence, Thats why you see so many cases of people being nicked and prosocuted for it.
Click to expand...

Dave, sorry but how do you think shows like Torchwood wave guns around in Cardiff bay ?
Its all down to talking to the right people before doing anything potentialy stupid and making sure that you do not create a situation that will get you shot or arrested :bonk::bonk:
 
Tbabe said:
John, just pop into your local station or contact the local firearms liason officer and advise them that you will be doing a photoshoot, using only replica weapons & where & when you intend to do it, there should be no problems at all & any reports that they were to recieve from the public, could then be dealt with, without unnecessary calls going out to the firearms unit. :rules:
Click to expand...

That's a good idea. Now I think about it there's a cop who lives just a few doors up from me. I don't know him too well, but perhaps i'll have a word with him and see what he suggests.
 
Tbabe said:
Dave, sorry but how do you think shows like Torchwood wave guns around in Cardiff bay ?
Its all down to talking to the right people before doing anything potentialy stupid and making sure that you do not create a situation that will get you shot or arrested :bonk::bonk:
Click to expand...


Slightly diferent when you are a TV or film company to jo bloggs public, Having had 10 years in the firearms business (not anymore) and having been asked to indentify different guns for the police that have been conferscated (sp) due to this sort of thing, I am fairly up on this.
 
John.D said:
That's a good idea. Now I think about it there's a cop who lives just a few doors up from me. I don't know him too well, but perhaps i'll have a word with him and see what he suggests.
Click to expand...


It would probably be better to ask at the station rather than an individual, then there will definitely be a record of it
 
Kerioak said:
It would probably be better to ask at the station rather than an individual, then there will definitely be a record of it
Click to expand...

Yeah definately, I was only going to ask him whether it would actually be possible at all, and see what he says. That's if I go with the weapon idea, which i'm thinking there might not be much point of, as i'll have to go through a lot of trouble and the idea might not even work. It might look a bit cheesy in the shot anyway, haha.
Time for a reckie to the location first I think!
 
OK, i'm going to leave the weapon idea. I doubt they can shoot me for wearing gas masks.
 
If you can get it organised and take a mate with you, I'm sure you can get the pic you are after and get out asap.
 
You could take a shot at the location, then a shot of your mate on your or his grounds in front of a green screen and PS him in.
 
get someone with a shotgun certificate
he is then legally able to carry the gun..no cartridges
otherwise its back to the woodshed
 
mrcrow said:
get someone with a shotgun certificate
he is then legally able to carry the gun..no cartridges
otherwise its back to the woodshed
Click to expand...

Bad advice, yes he can legally carry the shotgun, but it has to be covered in a public place or anywhere that he does not have the landowners permission to be
 
Section 37: Possession of air weapon or imitation firearm in public
place

3. This section will come into force on 20 January 2004. It adds to the
list of firearms covered by the offence in section 19 of the Firearms
Act 1968 of carrying a firearm in a public place without lawful
authority or reasonable excuse. That offence currently applies to loaded
shotguns, loaded air weapons or any other firearm (whether loaded or
not) together with its ammunition. Subsection 1 of section 37 adds to
this unloaded air weapons and imitation firearms. Subsection 3 adds the
offence to the list of arrestable offences in England and Wales set out
in Schedule 1A to the Police and Criminal Evidence Act 1984.

4. An imitation firearm is already defined in section 57(4) of the 1968
Act and covers anything which has the appearance of being a firearm
whether or not it is capable of discharging a shot, bullet or other
missile.

5. A public place is also defined in section 57(4) of the 1968 Act. It
includes any highway and any other premises or place to which at the
material time the public have or are permitted to have access, whether
on payment or otherwise.

6. There is no statutory definition of a reasonable excuse. This will
depend on the facts and circumstances prevailing at the time and police
officers will need to exercise discretion when deciding what action, if
any, is appropriate in each individual case. It should be borne in mind
that the intention of the offence is to protect the public from the
misuse of firearms and there is no intention of preventing legitimate
activities such as actors using imitations for film or theatrical work
or historical re-enactment.
 
Davec223 said:
Bad advice, yes he can legally carry the shotgun, but it has to be covered in a public place or anywhere that he does not have the landowners permission to be
Click to expand...

good point...mine was always in the bag...and i think you can open it up around 100 metres from a road..public place
just a thought..you could however take off the forend ...then it is useless

but going to the police seems like the most 'safe' way'...and of course have snap shots in chamber...get it photography...snapshots

:gag:
 
hi, If you need some thing and you are in the Oxon area. We have all sorts of Model kit weapons from M16's weighted to to feel real when a model is carrying.
We have swords and weird Klingon Star Trek odds n sods. 90% of all work is studio based.

I shoot a lot of chroma key and C.G.I work. you can even add C.G.I weapons if you need to.

Best advice. don't shoot any where public.
Always abandoned areas or Wasteland/Private land with permission. Also looks better with a small crew doing Make up reflectore etc.

With the Railway line go to a local Steam railway. they stop using the trains and track about this time aof year. and give a donation to the club.

Will PM you with some of my chroma key work.

D
 
killy said:
6. There is no statutory definition of a reasonable excuse. This will
depend on the facts and circumstances prevailing at the time and police
officers will need to exercise discretion when deciding what action, if
any, is appropriate in each individual case. It should be borne in mind
that the intention of the offence is to protect the public from the
misuse of firearms and there is no intention of preventing legitimate
activities such as actors using imitations for film or theatrical work
or historical re-enactment.
Click to expand...

I would think, print this part out, wander in to your local constabulary, and state to them that you intend on performing some photographic work on X date, at Y place. This will be with replicas, and no imitation of firing or injury. DO YOU HAVE A PROBLEM WITH THAT

I reckon the answer would be, thanks for letting us know, now get out.
 
Please, don't do it on a railway line.

Hundreds of people get killed on railway lines each year in the UK alone. Operational railways are very dangerous places and most people simply don't appreciate how quickly and how quietly a train can be upon them. Your location might be disused, and/or you might have got all sorts of official permission to be there, but the people who will see the photos don't know that. All they see is that railway lines are good places for photo shoots.

I once helped clean up the front of a locomotive that had run into some cows on the line. At least, the driver said they were cows. I certainly couldn't have identified them.



Plus, it's really, really, cliched.
 
coldpenguin said:
I would think, print this part out, wander in to your local constabulary, and state to them that you intend on performing some photographic work on X date, at Y place. This will be with replicas, and no imitation of firing or injury. DO YOU HAVE A PROBLEM WITH THAT

I reckon the answer would be, thanks for letting us know, now get out.
Click to expand...

I reckon the answer would be more like:

"with that attitude sir YES I do, if we see you in the street with a firearm we are going to shoot you :D
 
Daryl said:
I really don't thick that a shot like that would make people walk the rails or go on live active lines.
Click to expand...
With respect Daryl, what you think isn't really relevant here, unless this is an area of particular expertise for you. It is for me.

The facts are that many many people, especially young people, think railways are far safer than they are. Why? Well, I can't prove that the huge number of fashion shoots, band shoots etc. that use railways as a backdrop is an influence. But I note that it's always photographers who are trying to do something cool and/or glamorous who use railways, and I think it would be foolish to deny a connection.

Daryl said:
If it does then they are complete cabbages and deserve to get hit by an Intercity!!!
Click to expand...
No they don't. Nobody does. Did you think I was joking when I said I couldn't identify the remains?
 
i guess the easiest gun to make up out of bits and pieces is the K'nikov

the original is quite a simple design...?
 
Perfectly possible to do and hundreds if not thousands of Brits do a similar thing all over the country most weekends...

However there are some caveats:

1) The VCR Act must be obeyed (see above) with regard to the aquisition or manufacture of realistic imitation firearms and afterwards their use

2) Landowners permission - combined with the VCR Act, trespass with an imitation or real weapon is a serious offence

3) Even with the two above covered, inform the relevant police authority IN WRITING and ask for confirmation in writing in return. If you meet the above two criteria, this will be given but you can and no doubt will receive a visit from the coppers, usually just because they are genuinely interested in something different to break up their day!

I give you that advice with rather a lot of years of specifically such matters!!
 
StewartR said:
Please, don't do it on a railway line.

Hundreds of people get killed on railway lines each year in the UK alone. Operational railways are very dangerous places and most people simply don't appreciate how quickly and how quietly a train can be upon them. Your location might be disused, and/or you might have got all sorts of official permission to be there, but the people who will see the photos don't know that. All they see is that railway lines are good places for photo shoots.

I once helped clean up the front of a locomotive that had run into some cows on the line. At least, the driver said they were cows. I certainly couldn't have identified them.



Plus, it's really, really, cliched.
Click to expand...

Stewart while I argree that playing silly beggars on an active railway line is very dangerous, there are plenty of long disused lines dotted about that are safe enough to use for shoots.
I'm afraid i don't argree however that seeing other peoples photos will make me go out and play on the lines Like most normal people I know trains are big, heavy, and have trouble stopping and that messing about on the lines is a bad idea.
 
desantnik said:
Perfectly possible to do and hundreds if not thousands of Brits do a similar thing all over the country most weekends...

However there are some caveats:

1) The VCR Act must be obeyed (see above) with regard to the aquisition or manufacture of realistic imitation firearms and afterwards their use

2) Landowners permission - combined with the VCR Act, trespass with an imitation or real weapon is a serious offence

3) Even with the two above covered, inform the relevant police authority IN WRITING and ask for confirmation in writing in return. If you meet the above two criteria, this will be given but you can and no doubt will receive a visit from the coppers, usually just because they are genuinely interested in something different to break up their day!

I give you that advice with rather a lot of years of specifically such matters!!
Click to expand...

Listen to him, he knows...
I've done similar shots and always go through this procedure - sometimes with 'real' weapons that we've brought back from conflict areas for training purposes... (the only difference being in how I source the weapons).

I'm currently planning another shoot along these lines for next year after my 'Holidays'...
 
Stewart , I shoot models with weapons for calendars. I also did 8 years Scenes of Crime(photographic dept) for TVP and have seen people spread across the railway lines like strawberry jam. So YES. I do know.

The point is. YOU DON'T use a live Rail track to shoot on.

If you do you are an IDIOT.

And I have no sympathy for those that do stupid things.

Selfish mindless prats that want to end it all should do so with out causing grief to drivers and onlookers etc.

So David ol fella go for a Steam railway out of season. With permission and you will get the shots you want.

Life is easy.. people make a big whoopeee about things!
 
StewartR said:
Please, don't do it on a railway line.

Hundreds of people get killed on railway lines each year in the UK alone. Operational railways are very dangerous places and most people simply don't appreciate how quickly and how quietly a train can be upon them. Your location might be disused, and/or you might have got all sorts of official permission to be there, but the people who will see the photos don't know that. All they see is that railway lines are good places for photo shoots.

I once helped clean up the front of a locomotive that had run into some cows on the line. At least, the driver said they were cows. I certainly couldn't have identified them.



Plus, it's really, really, cliched.
Click to expand...


Don't worry, this railway has been abandoned for about 20+ years. I would never use a live railway.

Then again, none of this matters anyway. I just went to the location to see what had changed, and well... It's disappeared. They must have got rid of everything, all the track has been dug up by the look of it, the impressive old, rusting 'architecture' is gone, all the scrap metal and such on the floor is gone. A real disappointment, but i'm sure a relief for people here.
 
Daryl said:
I also did 8 years Scenes of Crime(photographic dept) for TVP and have seen people spread across the railway lines like strawberry jam. So YES. I do know.
Click to expand...
Fair enough. I've got to respect experience like that. Sorry for doubting you.
Daryl said:
The point is. YOU DON'T use a live Rail track to shoot on.
Click to expand...
Sorry, but no. The point is, you don't use ANY railway track - live or otherwise - for a shoot.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. Most people have absolutely no idea how dangerous a railway track can be. They subconsciously tend to assume that trains can stop like cars, which of course isn't the case. They have experience of crossing roads and they assume that crossing railways is similar. Anything that gives them the impression that trespassing on a railway might be OK in some circumstances is a really bad idea. And they don't know that a photographer has taken great pains to identify a disused stretch of railway. So when they see photos like this (Vogue) or this (Tommy Hilfiger) or this (Boss) - or thousands of others - it reinforces the assumption that trespassing or loitering or playing on a railway is OK. Kids see adults do it, and they don't know any better. It's plain irresponsible, simple as that.
 
PMSL....You should have came with me to the military fair at The National Motorcycle Museum last weekend. Picked up these little beauties below. A real genuine brand new Russian AK74 (newer version of AK47) and an RPG. They are going to make great studio props...The gun comes complete with a proper government stamped certificate stating that it has been made safe.
 
Deano said:
PMSL....You should have came with me to the military fair at The National Motorcycle Museum last weekend. Picked up these little beauties below. A real genuine brand new Russian AK74 (newer version of AK47) and an RPG. They are going to make great studio props...The gun comes complete with a proper government stamped certificate stating that it has been made safe.
Click to expand...

I might have to have a chat with you about borrowing that AK come next April, Deano if you're amenable...for a small fee of course...:D
 
i havnt read the replies so please excuse me if this is a repeat reply!

If you can get in touch with the land owner, there is no reason for you to not go ahead with your shoot.

Look into getting permission, then you can even use a real weapon if you want. lol
 
Deano said:
PMSL....You should have came with me to the military fair at The National Motorcycle Museum last weekend. Picked up these little beauties below. A real genuine brand new Russian AK74 (newer version of AK47) and an RPG. They are going to make great studio props...The gun comes complete with a proper government stamped certificate stating that it has been made safe.
Click to expand...

a certain amount of irony here :p

http://www.talkphotography.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=149404
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top