Scotland Sleeping in your car - who does it?

Lefrash

Lefrash

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Recently I've been itching to be a bit more proactive with my photography. I live central Scotland so a few hours drive gets me into prime territory. However getting there and back during the nice light hours makes it quite difficult - for someone lazy like me.

Recently gone down the rabbit hole on YouTube of people kitting out mpvs, 7 seater as mini camper vans... And perhaps my next car will be something like that. But, I've also found alot of discussions online of staying over in standard cars.

I think practically, it seems perfectly doable. Seats back give me enough room to stretch out. Would just need to fashion some blinds for privacy. I think that's really it.

So my question, does anyone else do this? What's the general feelings on it and what are the pitfalls? My understanding is there's no laws against sleeping in your car on Scottish laybys - I'd assume simply because they're there to give drivers a rest and that's what I'd be doing.

It would only be for 7 or so hours - get there for sunset, get up for sunrise, and then straight home. With this, there's no real need for any major luxuries in the car!

I'm really just thinking out loud here, I've spoke to a few (non photography) pals and they think it's a ridiculous notion... so just looking for other comments and insight... Im sure there's some stories to tell!

Cheers
 
As I understand it, technically you can only sleep in a lay-by in an emergency.

I think, depending on where you are, you might find it difficult to find a suitable place to park (in popular destinations) as there will most likely be camper vans filling the spaces. In the past (and maybe in the future - if the genie isn't truly out of the bottle) you'd have had no problem doing what you suggest. Camper vans and the incorrect assumption that you can sleep wherever you like have changed that.

The Acces Code asks that people behave responsibly and is clear that it does not refer to motorised activities.

Car parking

Access rights do not extend to any motorised activities. However, many
people use their cars to get into the outdoors and parking a vehicle without
regard to the interests of other people can cause problems. Therefore,
when you park your vehicle it is important not to cause any damage or
create an obstruction by:
•
not blocking an entrance to a field or building;
•
not making it difficult for other people to use a road or track;
•
having regard for the safety of others;
•
trying not to damage the verge; and
•
using a car park if one is nearby.
Click to expand...
 
Thanks for the input. My investigations suggested on Scotland its allowed, so much so alot of the 'no over night parking' signs had to get removed as they weren't legally correct. Of course though I've also found other sites saying the exact opposite so it definitely seems a grey area!
 
One of my mates car camps around Scotland and the Lake District on a regular basis for several days at a time. His estate car is kitted out with sleeping, cooking, inverters, roofbox, etc etc
 
There is increasing anguish in places where overnight parking is being abused by (particularly) staycation motorhomes, so I say be wary and be reasonable!
 
Lefrash said:
Thanks for the input. My investigations suggested on Scotland its allowed, so much so alot of the 'no over night parking' signs had to get removed as they weren't legally correct. Of course though I've also found other sites saying the exact opposite so it definitely seems a grey area!
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A lot of the carparks in popular areas in Scotland now have barriers that vans/campers can't get under, but cars will be ok.
My Skoda Octavia estate isn't flat when the seats fold down, but I have thought about making a basic frame to go in the back that I could put an inflatable mattress on. When I go to Glen Coe etc I often take a portable camping stove and a folding chair so I can have a cooked breakfast.
 
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@Lefrash
There is a video on YouTube of exactly what you’re talking about , see if you can find it as it’s very very informative..

I remember coming across it by chance , it’s a guy talking about the laws for visitors and natives visiting parts of Scotland and staying overnight..

Coho-Blue
 
Thanks coho-blue. I'll try hunt it down. I've watched hours of videos so far so I mightve seen tgis specific one already but definitely sounds worth another view.
 
I have slept in the car in laybys, while star gazing or doing other projects. Only problem is lack of toilet facilities, unless to take a bottle / porta loo etc.
 
I have a Peugeot Partner Teepee that I can convert into a camper. I built a couple boxes that live in the boot, one even has a sink.

All I do in take out the back seats, add the bed system and I'm ready to go.

Have a look on YT for box jump. Mine is similar but better

The main pitfalls are keeping warm, condensation, cooking, and toilet facilities.

You need to at least have a window cracked open at night. Condensation is easy to remove with one of those window vacuum things. You can have a porta potty. And for cooking, so long as you have good ventilation it isn't an issue
 
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Also, download an app called Park4Night it has thousands of location where you can park overnight. With reviews and pictures of some of the location.

One benefit of car camping is you don't look like a campervan so can be rather stealthy.
 
Lefrash said:
Thanks for the input. My investigations suggested on Scotland its allowed, so much so alot of the 'no over night parking' signs had to get removed as they weren't legally correct. Of course though I've also found other sites saying the exact opposite so it definitely seems a grey area!
Click to expand...

You are correct. I recall the 'No Overnight Parking' signs in some parts of Scotland(Argyll and Bute is one I remember) but in many other areas there has never been a problem for those doing a quick over night stop in a layby. Again years ago we were told in a Tourist Information centre in the Highlands that it was OK to sleep overnight if we found a safe place to pull off the road.

However, as you are probably aware a combination of the NC500 and COVID19 has increased the pressure on many Scottish rural areas, dramatically.

Unfortunately the problem of the very large numbers and more particularly some who have no idea how to behave -
leaving bags of rubbish,
using laybys as toilets, and
emptying toilet waste in ditches -

has in some cases soured the relationship between residents and visitors.

I hope the problem sorts itself out in the next year or so but if not I can see 'No Overnight Parking' coming back. This would be a great shame because the vast majority just want a kip and leave no trace at all.

There is still plenty of room to park up overnight but it might take a bit more time and distance than in other years, especially if as you suggest arriving lateish and leaving early.



Dave
 
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MrDrizz said:
I have a Peugeot Partner Teepee that I can convert into a camper. I built a couple boxes that live in the boot, one even has a sink.

All I do in take out the back seats, add the bed system and I'm ready to go.

Have a look on YT for box jump. Mine is similar but better

The main pitfalls are keeping warm, condensation, cooking, and toilet facilities.

You need to at least have a window cracked open at night. Condensation is easy to remove with one of those window vacuum things. You can have a porta potty. And for cooking, so long as you have good ventilation it isn't an issue
Click to expand...


Yeah I've seen those kits. Pretty impressive and definitely makes me having that as a thought when I come to replacing my car. In fact, those style of cars seem really quite practical for other reasons.. Tossing couple of bikes in the back for example!
 
MrDrizz said:
Also, download an app called Park4Night it has thousands of location where you can park overnight. With reviews and pictures of some of the location.

One benefit of car camping is you don't look like a campervan so can be rather stealthy.
Click to expand...

That looks ideal! Thanks!
 
I have never considered this even when I was younger. If wishing to take photos is Scotland or the lake District, I would hire a cottage for the period so could then venture out at dawn (occasionally) and return for breakfast.

Dave
 
I contemplated staying overnight on my recent Glencoe trip, that was the plan. This time of year, it's better to do a reverse method, where you go out for sunset, then a few hours later, you have the sunrise. I did it the conventional way twice last year, sunrise then sunset, that was a long, hard 40+ hours with no sleep. Doing sunset first then sunrise at the moment means I'm only out of the house for 12 hours or so, including the overnighter

For the amount of time I'd have been in the car, I wouldn't have needed any gear, a small packed supper/breakfast would've been all I needed. Glencoe tends to be quieter at those times too, parking can be a problem during the summer daytime.

In the end, I headed home to my bed, it's only just over 2 hours to Glencoe, so not much of a trip. If the weather forecast hadn't been that grey way the next day, I might've stayed.

Personally, I could get by with a minimum of gear, if any. That will change during the winter and the longer periods of darkness, then it's back to dragging myself out of a warm, comfy bed at 4am, which I hate.

My point is, just now, it's just a day out but in reverse.

I was suprised at how quiet it was in Glencoe Friday evening too. There were people about but parking wasn't a problem. I was also suprised at the number of camper vans, but they'd parked considerately. I could've taken my pick as to where to park overnight. If there were/are any parking restrictions, they weren't apparent.
 
You will be fine. There is no law against it - anyone suggesting otherwise is talking out of their :mooning:.

No overnight sleeping/parking signs are mostly illegal. To be legal they have to have a TRO (Traffic Regulation Order) attached and these are rarely granted just to stop parking.

A camper van or motorhome is still legally classed as a car despite their size - in fact in Europe they are mostly called Camping Cars.

Even in the case of trespass (don't do this), no law has been broken unless you cause damage. It takes a court order to remove you from private property which takes weeks/months so a few hours won't matter.

I spent twenty years or more living in cars/tents/caravans/campervans and motorhomes in the past. The only thing wrong with it is the stigma attached to it by ignorant, stupid and misinformed people.

A few simple rules:
  • Arrive late, leave early.
  • Don't make or leave a mess/rubbish.
  • Don't make a noise.
  • Don't cause an obstruction.
  • Stay away from people's houses.
  • Have a means of toileting that can be contained (ones and twos) and make sure you can't be seen doing so.
  • Don't drink alcohol (or worse).
Have fun and show us your pictures when you're done. :D
 
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Sky said:
You will be fine. There is no law against it - anyone suggesting otherwise is talking out of their :mooning:.

No overnight sleeping/parking signs are mostly illegal. To be legal they have to have a TRO (Traffic Regulation Order) attached and these are rarely granted just to stop parking.

A camper van or motorhome is still legally classed as a car despite their size - in fact in Europe they are mostly called Camping Cars.

Even in the case of trespass (don't do this), no law has been broken unless you cause damage. It takes a court order to remove you from private property which takes weeks/months so a few hours won't matter.

I spent twenty years or more living in cars/tents/caravans/campervans and motorhomes in the past. The only thing wrong with it is the stigma attached to it by ignorant, stupid and misinformed people.

A few simple rules:
  • Arrive late, leave early.
  • Don't make or leave a mess/rubbish.
  • Don't make a noise.
  • Don't cause an obstruction.
  • Stay away from people's houses.
  • Have a means of toileting that can be contained (ones and twos) and make sure you can't be seen doing so.
Have fun and show us your pictures when you're done. :D
Click to expand...


Excellent post. Think it puts alot of my worries to bed.

Think I'm going to just go for it then. I'll plan something out, over the next few weeks. With that app and a bit of forward planning I should be OK then.

This has been very helpful folks. Much appreciated!
 
Lefrash said:
Excellent post. Think it puts alot of my worries to bed.
Click to expand...

Thanks. I forgot to say don't drink alcohol or smoke anything illegal - you have to be in a fit state to drive the car if the police (for some unforeseen reason) would want you to move your vehicle. I've added this to my post.
 
Pound Coin said:
Here's a more sensible take on it...

www.wandering-bird.com

Motorhome Wild Camping in Scotland- Essential things you need to know

Going motorhome wild camping in Scotland? Read this first and be prepared for your wild camping with a motorhome or campervan trip...
www.wandering-bird.com www.wandering-bird.com
Click to expand...

A very good article and I'm pleased to see that it makes it clear that parking up overnight in a motorhome, or any motorised vehicle, is not wild camping.

Unfortunately there are some people and sites/social media who appear to think pulling up in a motorhome anywhere, getting the BBQ out and have a bit of a do, is wild camping and they can do whatever they like.

As so often the problem is not those who follow what Trevor has outlined above, but the few ones who disregard and reasonable behaviour.

Dave
 
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Agreed that his bullet points are good.

It's the first two lines that are questionable. Ownership of land is not always clear, and I'm not sure that TROs apply to non-highway land.

As you say, it is some people and some internet sites that are the problem.
 
A good video from Cameron McNeish but sadly the relatively few who cause the problems will probably never see it.

I think he is wrong in one respect though. Starting at about 6:20 he says, "While it is perfectly legal to spend a night in a lay by on a public or even a private road in Scotland...."

He might be mean you can spend the night in a lay by on private road, with the owners permission, but that is not made clear and the above statement as it stands is wrong about private roads.

Dave
 
I think the problem is that a proportion of prople latch onto the statements like “there has to be a TRO”, and set off with that in mind, ignoring the bits about being reasonable, getting permission, leaving no trace, not pouring waste out, not having fires, wild camping not being motorised, and so on. (And that single many roads in these beautiful places are single track with passing places and unsuited to fleets of big vans with inexperienced drivers).

Unfortunately a lot of discussions about the activity start off with unqualified statements like ‘there has to be a TRO’ or ‘its not illegal in Scotland’, and that is all that many hear.

There are plenty of people that have stopped by the roadside over the years, but what is going on now is not that. The sheer quantity of lawless behaviour, or near lawless behaviour is outnumbering those olden days ‘king of the road’ types and these beautiful places are being trashed by excessive visitations.

If it is just a Pandemic offshoot, then maybe it will settle down in years to come. However all these campervan companies now have fleets that need to earn money. If it doesn't settle down, I can see the law having to change to force it to settle down.

Maybe we shouldn't get to excited by it, given what we are doing to the world at large anyway…
 
Its really simple in Scotland, its allowed, hell the tolerance for wilding (tents / vans / motorhomes) is practically part of the culture and probably why it's such a popular activity. As long as you follow simple steps as already mentioned ie arrive early, leave late and don't make a nuisance of yourself you'll be grand.

I've just done 9 nights in Scotland and only one was on an official site and I did it in this

Vatersay2.jpeg
 
Pound Coin said:
There are plenty of people that have stopped by the roadside over the years, but what is going on now is not that. The sheer quantity of lawless behaviour, or near lawless behaviour is outnumbering those olden days ‘king of the road’ types and these beautiful places are being trashed by excessive visitations.
Click to expand...

Think this sums it up. I've been lucky enough to have visited many parts of the Highlands and a number of Scottish island over the last 40 years. This was in a car with a tent for a lot of years and while we haven't pitched a tent by the roadside, we have pulled up and slept in the car a few times, as have lots of others and I never saw any problems back then.

Now, as you say there is just the sheer volume of traffic, and quite a lot of it is folks who probably would never have thought of going to north west Scotland had it not been for a combination of the NC500 and the pandemic, and unfortunately in the increased traffic there are some whose behaviour is appalling.

If every visitor behaved impeccably the volume would still be an issue but at least there would not be bags of rubbish left by bins, people driving into farmers' field or toilet waste poured into drains or over walls.

Just hope it settles down soon.

Dave
 
I think the pandemic might've only exacerbated a trend that was there already. It's partly a result of increasing affluence nationally, coupled with the effect of marketing initiatives - the Highlands and their roads were there long before the NC500 became a 'thing'. And social media helps to propagate whims.

Undoubtedly business increases (and that's the point of marketing initiatives), but the local economy maybe isn't what the normal visitor goes to experience in such a region.

There are expensive cars speeding round the NC500 whose occupants scarcely register the nature of the country they're passing through - for them the journey is a kind of brief and self-congratulatory game.

The country (and the lochs and the sea) are big, and perhaps well able to absorb much of the intrusion. But around the Highland road arteries and their nodes currently, the visitor experience seems less pure than it once did, as if a variety of innocence has been lost.

The shift to electric vehicles might become a moderating influence of sorts, but given the abundance of Scottish Hydro power, all that's needed are copious charging points ...
 
Lefrash said:
I think practically, it seems perfectly doable. Seats back give me enough room to stretch out. Would just need to fashion some blinds for privacy. I think that's really it.
Click to expand...

Never tied this as always got missus with me.. but I would try something like this if I needed....

Auto Car Inflatable Air bed,Inflatable Car Back Seat Cushion Air Mattress With Air Pump, Car Inflatable Air bed Mattress Rear Back Seat Extended Sleep Rest Bed(Gris argenté) : Amazon.co.uk: Sports & Outdoors

Auto Car Inflatable Air bed,Inflatable Car Back Seat Cushion Air Mattress With Air Pump, Car Inflatable Air bed Mattress Rear Back Seat Extended Sleep Rest Bed(Gris argenté) : Amazon.co.uk: Sports & Outdoors
www.amazon.co.uk
 
I sleep in the car a lot.

Don't sleep in a layby on a main road for several reasons.

1. You won't actually sleep, cars and trucks passing will wake you up
2. Chances are dibble may move you on
3. Safety - there is a real risk of being collided into and in an unrestrained position, lying down etc that could be nasty

Sleeping in the car, for one or several nights in the trott is fine. I prefer to sleep in the front passenger seat with the seat full reclined, it is no better or worse than business class lie flat seats.

You do not need to drive anything as offensive as a campervan or as nasty as an MPV. A perfectly normal car is more than fine. I've been doing it for years. Converted vans seem all the rage with a "type" but any car is fine to drive in and sleep in. Van's are better if there are two or more of you but a photographer on their own is perfectly well served by the car they already have. Spend the money on petrol or camera gear, not some lumbering leviathan that becomes a rolling chicane for the rest of us who like driving.

And do it. It saves petrol and often you can grab a sunset, quick nap then a sunrise and get two for the price of one.

Re toilets, plenty of public ones all over the Scottish countryside, non issue. You won't need to crap in a field and wipe your bum with your bare hand.
 
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I've been camping in my Passat for quite a few nights in many places. All around UK, Belgium, France, Switzerland, Austria, Italy, Germany, Poland, and so on. Last one was 2019 so I'm getting tempted to re-visit the land of midges once again.
It is all rather basic in passat estate. You can fit a single futton mattress with the back seats folded so that gets you a surprisingly NORMAL nights sleep You have to park the whole thing on a slight slope to make it level. All other stuff needs to move to the front which is the greatest drawback.
There are not many cars bigger than this, so a van, a very large SUV or Sharan / Galaxy MPV are the obvious upgrades. Sadly X5, Q5 and the like are no good at all. You need at least XC90 space.
 
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In 2018/19 I bought a VW T4 spent a fortune converting it into a camper, on the day I was going to start my tour of the Bulkans the engine blew up. Managed to nurse it home and instead of driving that hunk of junk (it was a crap drive anyway!) I took my Mini Cooper. I slept in it in the UK, France, Belgium, Germany, Luxembourg, Liechtenstine, Slovenia, Croatia, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Montenegro, Kosovo, Albania, North Macedonia and Italy - first fiew days it wasn't the most comfortable thing but as the trip went on it became more and more comfortable. I quite enjoyed it. I don't think I would have enjoyed going in the T4, but wild camping in a car is something great fun and special. My car made it back and it still passes it's MOT with flying colours, my next adventure in it is to Chernobyl.

Also did Lands End to John O Groats on a noisy Yamaha R125, that was good fun but as you can't sleep on it it was always a challenge to find somewhere to set up a wild camp site, without bringing attention to myself.

Nevertheless - if you follow the simple rules of wild camping and set up late and leave early - it's a great and cheap way to explore locations.

Before embarking on such an investment of converting a van, I'd highly suggest just getting out there in the car and see how you feel - I wish I did before spending £2000+ excluding the van!

Good luck and happy camping :)

Forgot to add: Get yourself the app park4night, you will be able to find some of the best wild camping areas using this app, and it's an absolute god send.

My mini at a wild camp site in Vlorë, Albania.
65397532_10161939679440223_4609160388678778880_n.jpg
 
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Last car I slept in was a Citroen AX, it was good fun and slightly uncomfortable.
 
I've slept in my old Saab 99 when I was locked out of my house - lock was broken and locksmith was cheaper at daytime... Saabs do the best seats and it was comfortable (I was in my garage)

Then 14 years ago I did a mammoth drive from The Hague to Munich and back in one day in a Saab 9-3 Aero, 1100 miles in 23 hours with the odd stop just off the autobahn for a quick kip, no problems at all.
 
I've been doing this for years and never had any issues. Stayed all over Scotland in laybys, car parks and just off road.

In my Astra the seats fold flat and I either put in an airmat or a folding zbed cushion thing. Bed packs up easy during the day if driving and takes 5 mins to setup again at night.

I do it solo but have also been away plenty of time with my wife.

Bit cramped but perfect for sleeping and put up a tarp if weather bad for cooking.
 

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