Slides! - Very impressed

[stevelmx5]

However the post might have been more to the point had he shown us some of the images.

There are images of his slides in the first post? He's also expressly writing about the enjoyment of projecting them, having been disappointed with digital scans of the same slides. Unless you wanted to see a photograph of his front room with projection screen up, I'm not sure what additional images you would like to see.

The fact you pointed out the weakness of the transparency process, and therefore assumed that he was unaware of those same weaknesses, suggests your own inability to comprehend that other photographers also have their own knowledge and appreciation of available mediums.

With regards to not seeing many film photographs, I'd suggest that you may be simply looking in the wrong places. Whilst local camera clubs may be the domain of pixel peepers and snobby judges, there are numerous popular/growing online sources of analogue photography, coupled with a wealth of podcasts and YouTube channels focused solely on analogue photography, many run by new younger photographers who are enjoying the new (to them) outlet for their creativity, having grown up with digital photography and find it equally limiting.

 

[Ed Sutton]

I know we're all different but it's nice to think that work shot on such an archaic medium in 2020 will be available to view by future generations. I wonder if there will be similar archives of SD cards?

Most pictures made on film have always ended up in landfill. Only those deemed important survive. The same will happen with digital photographs - even if that is in the form of prints.

 

[simon ess]

Most pictures made on film have always ended up in landfill. Only those deemed important survive. The same will happen with digital photographs - even if that is in the form of prints.

It's all f*****g pointless. That's the f*****g point. For 99% of photos, taken by whoever on whatever.

Enjoying the hobby or making a few bob, if that's your thing, is the thing.

I love pointless images on pointless media. All that matters is that I love it.

Anyone who criticises that can f*** off.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

Again, the issue at hand is the decision to trample on another photographers' excitement about finding something new and enjoyable for themselves, because you've done it yourself before.

The fact that your heritage of images will be thrown out when you're gone is a sad thought. In contrast, a photographer who has recently received a Chroma, contacted me last week to say that he's made plans for his Chroma, and the negatives from the projects he has lined up with it, to go to the Bishopsgate Institute in London, along with his back catalogue of work and writings, once he's gone. I know we're all different but it's nice to think that work shot on such an archaic medium in 2020 will be available to view by future generations. I wonder if there w ill be similar archives of SD cards?

It is hard to tell what images will be available to future generations.
I have donated a number of images to local museums that cover local developments and builds. and others have been printed in books. Most recently a professionally printed book of the history of my local church..
Most of the images that I took professionally, have probably passed their sell by date. But some of the thousands may still exist in company records, albums. Or in printed material.
However I expect very few of my, or anyone elses personal images to escape the dump.
I was horrified to find that much of the photographic equipment once held in museums. Including important collections! , are regularly disposed of either in sales or simply dumped.

Our local museum dumps anything without a direct connection to the local area. Which in many ways seems reasonable. But really quite sad. Museums rarely share personal priorities. They might pass things on, but not take any great pains to do so.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

Mm

In my opinion, Terry gave an inappropriate, unwelcome and uninvited view for the F&C section. Yes, in accordance with the rules, he had every right to post it, but the F&C regulars now have every right to express their displeasure.

We don't turn up in Mirrorless camera threads and start posting our views about film photography being much more fun than digital, so we expect the same courtesy to be extended to the F&C section.

As for resolution, it's only comparatively recently that 35mm equivalent digital cameras have been able to get near the resolution of slide films like Kodachrome 64. This was taken in 1983 and has been scanned on a 'cheap' consumer-grade home flatbed scanner. Projected on a screen there's absolutely loads of detail in there. Put it this way, if I'd had a professional quality drum scan done of this slide and posted it as being from a modern digital camera, I doubt many on the TP forum would notice the difference and shout fake!

That is undoubtedly an. Excellent quality image of of a car. However, it is probably only of interest to the owner, or a car freak. Neither of which may be interested in photographic technique or the medium used. And almost certainly not the niceties of film scanners.
However I am personally able to appreciate the quality, if little else about it.

 

[Andysnap]

This is not about photography, it has nothing to do with what sort of image maker that you use, the medium you record it on or the resultant photograph.
If someone finds an old vase at says they are amazed at how beautiful it is and how they love it would you disagree, point out its flaws and smash it with a baseball bat?
On the Repair Shop do they point out how crap the items are when people pick them up?
This is about basic politeness, about giving encouragement to others and not allowing your own experiences, good or bad, to turn you into one of those grumpy old people who only want to suck the joy out of others lives.
If things don't change in here very soon then Gareth will not be the only one to delete his account.

 

[FishyFish]

The reason that I see few interesting images taken on film to day is twofold. One. Few photographs are taken...Two. many new film photographers seem more oriented to the equipment, materials and process than in taking other than test images.

This is not my experience at all. While I will grant that fewer film photographs are made than digital, there are still huge amounts of them being produced on a daily basis, including a very significant number that are interesting, whatever your taste in genre. Try searching #filmphotography on Instagram as a single example to see the sheer volume of film photography out there.

Similarly, the suggestion that new film photographers are more concerned about equipment, technique, and making test images also rings false.

 

[Asha]

I would like to ask @Terrywoodenpic to describe IN DETAIL so that we can all clearly understand, what attributes are required to ensure that any given photograph ( regardless of subject matter, or lighting conditions) comes under the heading of "INTERESTING"

I for one need clarification before heading out this afternoon with the 10x8.and exposing film that costs about £7 a sheet.

Clearly, prior to exhibiting the result(s) on here, it is importatnt that any exposures made come up to the 'necessary standard' expected by the more experienced, professional photographers such as Terry.

 

[TheBigYin]

Honestly, I despair of some people on this forum. Why on earth would you stamp up and down on someone's enthusiasm like this, if you don't agree fine, keep it to yourself but don't flood in here (especially from the digital side) and slag of film photography.
Gareth was a really appreciated member of this forum and now you've driven him away with your stupid and pointless argument.

Exactly...

Congrats guys. You really just can’t help yourselves can you. All this resolution this, image quality that, dynamic range what ever... can’t you just appreciate something regardless of it’s comparative merits? Of course not, what a daft notion. Instead what’s been achieved is that yet another someone, who actually contributed something to the forum, has left.

It's sad, really sad.

This saddens me. Gareths photographs are beautiful.
<sigh>

Exactly, And worse, the guy has true passion for his subject, hence becoming upset enough to ask to have his account closed. Sadly, I wasn't on duty or i'd have had at least a try at talking him down off the ledge.

Well,......... just noticed the op has deleted his account. Great hatchet job from the people who harangued him - very sad.

This is why we can't have anything nice...

To be fair, this is literally the F&C ‘niche’ section on TP, so comparisons to digital images are largely irrelevant. If Gareth had posted his thread in the Equipment section, I could understand people chipping in with direct technology comparisons, but he didn’t.
...
The fact that Gareth has decided to delete his account on here is disappointing. As someone who has strived to run his own business using analogue gear, his work has always impressed me, and he’s a seriously nice guy too.

Yep.

Oh dear, these types of thread are becoming a little too frequent recently and I too, like Gareth and the OP of this thread, could quite easily opt out of the forum .

I come in here for enjoyment not to hear that other members who have lots to contribute to the forum have quitted due to the behaviour of other members.

Hopefully @gazmorton will reconsider his decission and return in due course.

If he re-joins, I "think" we could probably re-link the old account stuff... I'd personally love it if he would.

I hope Gareth comes back. For one thing, he's a great photographer and for another, he's a really nice bloke!

Yep - I honestly thought that F&C were above this kind of stuff and would look after our own.

Ffs actual philistines

That is actually a direct Quote from me when I saw the "please delete my account" request in the staffroom when I finished work 6pm yesterday.

This is not about photography, it has nothing to do with what sort of image maker that you use, the medium you record it on or the resultant photograph.
If someone finds an old vase at says they are amazed at how beautiful it is and how they love it would you disagree, point out its flaws and smash it with a baseball bat?
On the Repair Shop do they point out how crap the items are when people pick them up?
This is about basic politeness, about giving encouragement to others and not allowing your own experiences, good or bad, to turn you into one of those grumpy old people who only want to suck the joy out of others lives.
If things don't change in here very soon then Gareth will not be the only one to delete his account.

Couldn't have said it better myself Andy.

Why, Why, Why do the people who we NEED on here get chased away, whereas the ones that are completely toxic get banned, and just come back under another, then another, and another Fraser-Name....

 

[Solo man]

I'm sorry to see that Gareth has left... he may not have felt he was a good photographer but certainly his images suggest otherwise.
The fact he only wanted to use film was his choice...

 

[excalibur2]

H'mm film users have to be a bit thick skinned and anyone with young children or grandchildren will know what I mean. For me I'm always interested in facts (if true) and didn't know 35mm digi cameras has better resolution to 35mm Kodachrome. Anyway why should a film user care what other people say just enjoy what turns you on and for criticism etc you can always mention\explain your reasons for what you doing (if you want to bother)...... or just ignore posts that annoy you.

 

[TheBigYin]

Brian, I'm glad you've developed a thick skin over the years - I'm sure it must have served you well, as I'm pretty sure that many, many, many people over the years have found what you've said and how you've behaved has rubbed people up to the extent that they've had serious disagreements with you. However, in a civilised society, which I'd like to think we can at least pretend to be if we choose, stating that basically you have to swallow getting philistines like yourself trampling over any little speck of joy that you choose to share with people is not how I'd like to think we want to behave in this, what I normally consider to be my "haven of peace and sanity" - somewhere where I can (when I actually get around to it) make and share images freed from the straightjackets of outright technical image quality - somewhere that hopefully i'll get my pictures judged (if judging is actually needed) by people who may appreciate that there's more to a picture than if it's completely sharp to the edges, or that there's no grain, or blocked up shadows, or whatever technical issue the "technician photographers"** have a bee in their bonnet about.

But you see, you're part of the problem. EVERY time we have a discussion about anything "higher" than technical stuff, you're in with your size 12's, I strongly urge people to do as you recommend in your post and ignore you. We've even given everyone a tool to let them ignore you and your ilk.

But Brian... I'm on the staff, the ignore button doesn't work for me, or on me. So, for the sake of common decency. Give it a FECKING REST will you.


**(yes, i'm using that as an insult - i feel qualified to do so, as it's been levelled at me a few times, especially in my first time around with film from 1970(ish) to maybe 2000. Happily from there I learned that the final image was what really mattered to me, and not in a technical qualitative way, but in how it spoke to me, and to others.)

 

[Markppmm]

especially in my first time around with film from 1970(ish) to maybe 2000. Happily from there I learned that the final image was what really mattered to me, and not in a technical qualitative way, but in how it spoke to me, and to others.)

That's what it's all about, many special images continue to be taken on film that just leap from the page and speak or touch you in a personal way. If it tugs at the heart - it's a great image.

 

[Bobsyeruncle]

If it tugs at the heart - it's a great image

This.....
Most of my great images would be crap to others, regardless of them being on film, slide or digital....

When I started reading this thread, I was getting exited about the thousands of slides in the loft, and starting to wonder if my slide projector (that I walked 5 miles to buy from Comet after work in 1985) Still worked....

 

[Quendil]

This is such a shame he has gone, people are too quick to type opinions on the internet without thinking them through. I love film and don't use digital but very rarely post anything due to some of the criticism you get when you haven't asked for it. I am also rubbish at scanning and much prefer darkroom work. I have however just spent a nice afternoon mounting my very first colour slide film, not the best pictures but very meaningful to me. Its a shame we won't get to see more

 

[Andysnap]

Indeed, and obviously the paint job lacked dynamic range and the headlights were blown.

Come on people this is comedy gold, very disappointed with everyone....

 

[ancient_mariner]

Come on people this is comedy gold, very disappointed with everyone....

Perhaps in different circumstances......

I like you lot that use film - don't go all tribal on those of us that use digital too.

 

[stevelmx5]

Perhaps in different circumstances......

I like you lot that use film - don't go all tribal on those of us that use digital too.

A lot of the F&C members use digital too, we’re not all fusty and crusty ;0)

 

[Mr Badger]

My neighbour recently bought a 1952 Jaguar XK120.

He was telling me how much he loved it and how, for him, it was a far better driving experience than modern cars.

Obviously I pointed out that, while his car was very nice, it was clearly lacking in terms of reliability, performance, handling and safety compared to my Lexus.

He appreciated my balanced input and I feel very pleased that I was able to help him.

I couldn't agree more, I mean look at the state of this one... all those totally unnecessary curves and lines, probably hand beaten too - what a total waste of labour time when they could have been flat, square and machine pressed! When you compare this waste of labour and materials to the bland, uninteresting, computer designed forms of a modern car it really brings home how utterly stupid and dated designs like this were. I can't understand what anyone sees in obsolete cars like that. they should all be scrapped or put in a museum, and not driven about!



As for that dreadful, outdated 35mm film that this so-called photograph was taken with, I mean how stupid! A print film too, and not even professionally scanned either, and on a stupid old manual focus lens that cost £25!! I mean, there's barely enough resolution to see that they've used Philips screws and not cross-heads under the headlights! Ridiculous!

Any modern digital camera would have done a much better job, and there'd have been enough dynamic range to have seen the rusty, fly encrusted radiator core behind that distracting chrome grill. Absolute poppycock if you ask me, and it's not even interesting, so it has no right to exist!!

 

[Asha]

I like you lot that use film

Thanks! .....we don't mind most of you lot either

don't go all tribal on those of us that use digital too.

I don't think we're going tribal as such but to be fair folk in here aint going to sit on their arses and say nowt when they've lost a very valued member of this sub forum, however the whole situation concerning the origins of this thread have now ( imo) got out of hand hence my suggestion that things be brought to a close ( by Mods)

 

[Mr Badger]

Mm

That is undoubtedly an. Excellent quality image of of a car. However, it is probably only of interest to the owner, or a car freak. Neither of which may be interested in photographic technique or the medium used. And almost certainly not the niceties of film scanners.
However I am personally able to appreciate the quality, if little else about it.

It was posted purely to give some idea of the properties of 1980s Kodachrome slide film. It was taken by the then owner of the car (me) purely as a record shot after I'd spent a couple of hours that Wednesday afternoon in 1983 washing, polishing and detailing the car, and wanted to remember how nice I thought it looked. Thank you anyway for pointing out that it's a record shot, just in case no one else had worked that out.

You see, that's what I spend a lot of time doing, just casually taking photographs, or taking test shots to see what I can get out of an old film camera. Do you know why? It's because I enjoy doing it, it gives me pleasure and helps me unwind. I like cameras too, especially old film ones. In fact, before I left school (many years ago) I realised I really enjoyed photography, so much so that I didn't want to do it for a living, as I enjoyed it too much to turn it into a job - not that I couldn't have done if I'd wanted too. However, the thought of being told what sort of images to take and having to deliver the same old 'two and nine', week in, week out, would have destroyed my love for it. "Go and take another photo of the mayor shaking hands with someone", or yet another set of cliched, vignetted, soft focus photos of a bride (do you remember those in the 80's Terry?) would have bored me to death! Fair play to those who could switch off and just run on auto pilot and trot out the same old stuff, day in and day out.

So I remain to this day a free spirit, I take what I like, and when I like, and just for me! Furthermore, if I find it 'interesting' for whatever reason then I don't give a rat's what anyone else thinks. So most of the stuff I post on this forum is to illustrate a discussion (as I did with that slide photo of the car), or to show that an old film camera I've bought works, etc. If people don't find that 'interesting' then there's no need for them to look, and they can just scroll on.

Talking of which, when are we going to see some of your photos, Terry? You know, I couldn't actually remember having seen any you've posted... now is that because you don't post many, or is it because I haven't actually remembered any that I've seen? The second possibility must be wrong though, as from the way you've been talking you must take some stunning images? I did have a look at the album in your profile just now, but it wasn't really what I was expecting.

 

[Bobsyeruncle]

It's all becoming a bit childish now....

 

[Asha]

It's all becoming a bit childish now....

Well if the children take themselves out of the f&c playground...........

 

[Bobsyeruncle]

Well if the children take themselves out of the f&c playground...........

I rest my case......again.

 

[Mr Badger]

It's all becoming a bit childish now....

Yes, which isn't usual for the F&C section, unless we're just engaging in a bit of fun and banter.

 

[Asha]

I rest my case......again.

Too heavy for you to carry it?

 

[Asha]

Yes, which isn't usual for the F&C section, unless we're just engaging in a bit of fun and banter.

Don't worry Mr B, I know what the game is .......It's been tried before

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

It was posted purely to give some idea of the properties of 1980s Kodachrome slide film. It was taken by the then owner of the car (me) purely as a record shot after I'd spent a couple of hours that Wednesday afternoon in 1983 washing, polishing and detailing the car, and wanted to remember how nice I thought it looked. Thank you anyway for pointing out that it's a record shot, just in case no one else had worked that out.

You see, that's what I spend a lot of time doing, just casually taking photographs, or taking test shots to see what I can get out of an old film camera. Do you know why? It's because I enjoy doing it, it gives me pleasure and helps me unwind. I like cameras too, especially old film ones. In fact, before I left school (many years ago) I realised I really enjoyed photography, so much so that I didn't want to do it for a living, as I enjoyed it too much to turn it into a job - not that I couldn't have done if I'd wanted too. However, the thought of being told what sort of images to take and having to deliver the same old 'two and nine', week in, week out, would have destroyed my love for it. "Go and take another photo of the mayor shaking hands with someone", or yet another set of cliched, vignetted, soft focus photos of a bride (do you remember those in the 80's Terry?) would have bored me to death! Fair play to those who could switch off and just run on auto pilot and trot out the same old stuff, day in and day out.

So I remain to this day a free spirit, I take what I like, and when I like, and just for me! Furthermore, if I find it 'interesting' for whatever reason then I don't give a rat's what anyone else thinks. So most of the stuff I post on this forum is to illustrate a discussion (as I did with that slide photo of the car), or to show that an old film camera I've bought works, etc. If people don't find that 'interesting' then there's no need for them to look, and they can just scroll on.

Talking of which, when are we going to see some of your photos, Terry? You know, I couldn't actually remember having seen any you've posted... now is that because you don't post many, or is it because I haven't actually remembered any that I've seen? The second possibility must be wrong though, as from the way you've been talking you must take some stunning images? I did have a look at the album in your profile just now, but it wasn't really what I was expecting.

As you asked a direct question I will answer it. I have posted many images in these forums. But never I think in this particular one. Most that I have posted have been to demonstrate a particular thing or technique. I have never been particularly interested in producing art images nor club style shots. I am far more interested in shooting progress shots of buildings and the like of local happenings and events. I almost never take conventional landscapes. I take interesting to me but often dull to others photographs of just about anything.

As a retired professional I am competent to shoot most industrial and commercial subjects as well as at one time being the chief photograher for skyphotos specialising in aerial photography.
At another time. I specialised in interior shots of stores and large shops, covering many of the famous London stores. I ended my career, for the last ten years, as a college print and photographic manager. All this using film and all pre digital.

I did have a large part time wedding business in the 70's run alongside my commercial work often having six or more photographers out on a Saturday.
I even spent three years as chief photographer working for a large studio in Madrid.

Whilst I always found all this work interesting and challenging. It was interesting to me and my clients, but probably would have left people here bored to tears.

I have enjoyed the transition to digital photography, especially panoramas, preferably including people and action.

The total lock down has been something of a shock to the system and I have been prevented from almost any new work this year.
At close to 86 time is passing.

 

[Bobsyeruncle]

As you asked a direct question I will answer it. I have posted many images in these forums. But never I think in this particular one. Most that I have posted have been to demonstrate a particular thing or technique. I have never been particularly interested in producing art images nor club style shots. I am far more interested in shooting progress shots of buildings and the like of local happenings and events. I almost never take conventional landscapes. I take interesting to me but often dull to others photographs of just about anything.

As a retired professional I am competent to shoot most industrial and commercial subjects as well as at one time being the chief photograher for skyphotos specialising in aerial photography.
At another time. I specialised in interior shots of stores and large shops, covering many of the famous London stores. I ended my career, for the last ten years, as a college print and photographic manager. All this using film and all pre digital.

I did have a large part time wedding business in the 70's run alongside my commercial work often having six or more photographers out on a Saturday.
I even spent three years as chief photographer working for a large studio in Madrid.

Whilst I always found all this work interesting and challenging. It was interesting to me and my clients, but probably would have left people here bored to tears.

I have enjoyed the transition to digital photography, especially panoramas, preferably including people and action.

The total lock down has been something of a shock to the system and I have been prevented from almost any new work this year.
At close to 86 time is passing.

Interesting and varied career....I hope I'm still taking photos at 86.

 

[Mr Badger]

As you asked a direct question I will answer it. I have posted many images in these forums. But never I think in this particular one. Most that I have posted have been to demonstrate a particular thing or technique. I have never been particularly interested in producing art images nor club style shots. I am far more interested in shooting progress shots of buildings and the like of local happenings and events. I almost never take conventional landscapes. I take interesting to me but often dull to others photographs of just about anything.

As a retired professional I am competent to shoot most industrial and commercial subjects as well as at one time being the chief photograher for skyphotos specialising in aerial photography.
At another time. I specialised in interior shots of stores and large shops, covering many of the famous London stores. I ended my career, for the last ten years, as a college print and photographic manager. All this using film and all pre digital.

I did have a large part time wedding business in the 70's run alongside my commercial work often having six or more photographers out on a Saturday.
I even spent three years as chief photographer working for a large studio in Madrid.

Whilst I always found all this work interesting and challenging. It was interesting to me and my clients, but probably would have left people here bored to tears.

I have enjoyed the transition to digital photography, especially panoramas, preferably including people and action.

The total lock down has been something of a shock to the system and I have been prevented from almost any new work this year.
At close to 86 time is passing.

Thanks for the reply. Yes, lockdown and the Covid situation has pretty much killed things for me this year photography wise, as I have an octogenarian mother who I've been trying my best to shelter from the disease, so even when lockdown was lifted I've had to be very careful and try to keep myself Covid free, and have spent most of my spare time at weekends looking after my Mum (shopping, gardening, maintenance work around her house, etc. - the latest issue being her central heating boiler breaking down today!), all while trying to do a full time job. So I share your frustration in not being able to get out and about with a camera (digital or film).

It's not been easy for a lot of people, one way or another, so all we can do is try to keep our chins up and give each other some love and support. That's what got me with this thread really, times are hard and the world seems a very cruel place that I hardly recognise at times these days. There seems to be so much trouble in the world; so surely people who share the same basic interest in a common subject should be able to get on together? Share their knowledge and experience, swap some interesting or funny stories, inspire others, and take an interest in what they do?

It would be a very miserable world if all people ever did was argue, so let's at least try to prevent that if we have the power to do so.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

Interesting and varied career....I hope I'm still taking photos at 86.

And for many years now doing everything for my self. Even helping out my daughter with DIY jobs and carpentry.
Had to identify a missing screw in a new cabinet that was made in India for her today. Turned out to be a 3/16 BSW which was something of a surprise. Had to order a packet of 10. All in a day's life..
Taught my self to splice a locked loop in 2mm twelve strand dyneema yesterday. Not easy with my hand tremor. Can now make a weight holder for my tripod. (2mm single braid can hold nearly half a tonne.)
Keeps me busy.....

 

[Mr Badger]

And for many years now doing everything for my self. Even helping out my daughter with DIY jobs and carpentry.
Had to identify a missing screw in a new cabinet that was made in India for her today. Turned out to be a 3/16 BSW which was something of a surprise. Had to order a packet of 10. All in a day's life..
Taught my self to splice a locked loop in 2mm twelve strand dyneema yesterday. Not easy with my hand tremor. Can now make a weight holder for my tripod. (2mm single braid can hold nearly half a tonne.)
Keeps me busy.....

I'm no stranger to Whitworth nuts and bolts either, as restoring vintage machinery is another hobby of mine.. more obsolete but wonderful old stuff that still has some sort of magical hold over me.

 

[TheBigYin]

Right folks, as this has (as often happens here in F&C land) rambled way, way, way off topic, and, as the Original Poster is no longer around to post anything to get it back on topic. I think it's time we put this whole sorry mess behind us - and as I said in another post not too long ago:

I expect everyone to behave like the adults that your signup DOB's confirm that you most certainly all are... Please, no more of this, no carrying the arguments over into other theads, or starting new ones. I'm going to appeal to a few more "cool heads" to keep an eye on things, and RTM anything that is contrary to what i've asked - and I will take measures to ensure you realise I mean it when I say this crap stops now.

Film is good, Digital is good also, Taking photographs is good, Making Images that make people think, or care, or smile, or weep is Brilliant and Magical. Lets focus (you see what I did there) on the Brilliant and Magical folks...

with that, mind the doors...