slight motor car accident this morning

neil_g said:
That's what it says.

In this case definitely as there seems to be something fishy with the guys insurance.
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BillN_33 said:
If you read what I said earlier I assumed that this is the case ..... it is just a little strange that it changed from "not insured" to "insured" within hours of the accident - it could be just as it is - I have the screen shots but can only await his insurance details ...... I am not accusing or suggesting anything, just following the trail ...... the facts are just needed ..... and most likely it will just be left to the insurance companies as is common in these matters. I have photographs, it is just a matter of completing the formalities if we both wish or decide to.
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This...
philoldsmobile said:
The public insurance database is not updated as quickly as the one the PO use for tax - that one is instantaneous where as the public accessible one can take up to ten days - sometimes more.
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Like I said earlier, it's unlikely the public database was updated on the day the car was insured,
 
Phil V said:
This...


Like I said earlier, it's unlikely the public database was updated on the day the car was insured,
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I can let the Forum know the delay when he gives me details of his insurance - the period it runs from ....... simple as that
 
Rhyswh said:
OP hadn't said that he got the contact details before my post. And I don't know my policy details off by heart but this day and age you get policy documents by email so I always have them on my phone. Sounds promising if the other guy is in contact.
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That's not a bad idea, until you have 4 vehicles like me, or can be that organised :). I have them at home, either emails of paper copies, just not on the phone.
 
Byker28i said:
That's not a bad idea, until you have 4 vehicles like me, or can be that organised :). I have them at home, either emails of paper copies, just not on the phone.
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Yeh - I think in these times it is easy just to scan or photograph all your main documents and have them on your iPad/computer/phone/device ..... it is just a matter of being disciplined ..... and we can all be wise after the event

and my other bind "passwords" _ i one of these "safe" apps on my phone ...... but there is always one that I fail to record
 
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Byker28i said:
That's not a bad idea, until you have 4 vehicles like me, or can be that organised :). I have them at home, either emails of paper copies, just not on the phone.
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I know what you mean, but there is an easy way.

I have four bikes and a car, so I have to keep quite organised with insurance. I use the Yahoo mail app on my phone which makes it super easy to set up folders. I have a folder called 'insurance documents' which is where all of my email certificates go, so all of them are readily to hand at any time. When I renew I just delete the old one prior to moving the new one in.
 
BillN_33 said:
Thanks - it was quite an old car - over 20 years old ...... damage done to my car much less than the damage on his ......... doesn't look to me like the damage to his car was all caused by the accident

If it is as it is, i.e. no insurance, I am not sure if I will hear from him as I said, "let the insurance cos sort it out" but considering the age and condition of his vehicle it will probably be an "insurance write off" whilst I only have damage to my wheel arch

....... I have the maximum NCB in France, (insurance in France is expensive) so I do not want to lose that if the cost of the repair to mine is less than the NCB loss

I was quite "stunned" by the accident as it came out of no-where
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Was it a driver exercising "priorite a droit" ? One of the daftest road regulations i ever recall reading of!
 
Box Brownie said:
Was it a driver exercising "priorite a droit" ? One of the daftest road regulations i ever recall reading of!
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I think that is a problem on many roundabouts in the UK - there are more and more do not observe "priorite a droit"

Driving has changed considerably in France in the past few years - lots of cameras and automatic fines by post - little leeway over the legal limit - 1 or 2 kms - and many many 30kmh and 20kmh zones and sleeping policemen

In the UK I find people break the speed limit now far more than in France and generally drive faster

When you insure a car you get a sticker on your windscreen and the same with the French MOT - you can be stopped in France just "to check your documents and you have to have you reg documents with you" and it happens a lot of the time.
 
have you informed your own insurance yet ?
they should be able to tell you from the registration of the other car who it is insured with

had a car bump me last year and was given a couple of choices when i phoned my insurance company
because it was a non fault accident i could have gone through my own insurance and let them chase the claim or i could contact the other drivers insurance directly and sort it out from there which is what i did
my insurance gave me the details i needed ( insurance name and policy number of the other driver / car ) and a few phone calls later it was all sorted out
 
BillN_33 said:
I think that is a problem on many roundabouts in the UK - there are more and more do not observe "priorite a droit"

Driving has changed considerably in France in the past few years - lots of cameras and automatic fines by post - little leeway over the legal limit - 1 or 2 kms - and many many 30kmh and 20kmh zones and sleeping policemen

In the UK I find people break the speed limit now far more than in France and generally drive faster

When you insure a car you get a sticker on your windscreen and the same with the French MOT - you can be stopped in France just "to check your documents and you have to have you reg documents with you" and it happens a lot of the time.
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Interesting insight about (modern) France & motoring...........and as for UK drivers being poor at roundabout discipline, spot on! The number of times I have experienced the Russian roulette and as for lane discipline even where there are clear lane markers ~ agh!!!!! :(

But have the French revoked the priorite a droit as it applied to the way even a tractor had right of way to enter a 'faster' N road into the path of higher speed traffic?
 
cosmicma said:
have you informed your own insurance yet ?
they should be able to tell you from the registration of the other car who it is insured with

had a car bump me last year and was given a couple of choices when i phoned my insurance company
because it was a non fault accident i could have gone through my own insurance and let them chase the claim or i could contact the other drivers insurance directly and sort it out from there which is what i did
my insurance gave me the details i needed ( insurance name and policy number of the other driver / car ) and a few phone calls later it was all sorted out
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I live in France ....... over in the UK for a few days, before I fly to ZA.... I drive a french registered LHD car, I am a French resident .. the accident happened at 9:30 on Friday - I am waiting for the guys insurance details, I have given him mine ...

damaged to my car is limited, I have a very good NCB ...... if push comes to shove I will sort my own damage out rather than letting the insurance cos deal with it, which would not be worth the hassle and you cannot control the outcome .. if the guy is uninsured there is no point chasing him, (I hope he is insured otherwise that is theoretically further time wasting hassle) ............... read the full thread and you will understand the situation
 
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Box Brownie said:
Interesting insight about (modern) France & motoring...........and as for UK drivers being poor at roundabout discipline, spot on! The number of times I have experienced the Russian roulette and as for lane discipline even where there are clear lane markers ~ agh!!!!! :(

But have the French revoked the priorite a droit as it applied to the way even a tractor had right of way to enter a 'faster' N road into the path of higher speed traffic?
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........ priorite a droit was a very old custom that was mainly relevant to agricultural vehicles in the countryside on unmarked roads ....... it was observed by drivers years ago and there are now few from that era left alive - road signs and road markings now govern the right of way as they do in the UK - and this applies even on unmarked roads - you may get the occasional "old boy" pulling out but it could be that he has not just seen you - the levels of driving are vastly different between Town and Country more so that in the UK as France is far bigger.

There are more and more bad and particularly fast drivers around, even if they obey "national speed limits" - that is a problem, but I feel that enforcement in France is now better than the UK
 
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BillN_33 said:
I live in France ....... over in the UK for a few days, before I fly to ZA.... I drive a french registered LHD car, I am a French resident .. the accident happened at 9:30 on Friday - I am waiting for the guys insurance details, I have given him mine ...

damaged to my car is limited, I have a very good NCB ...... if push comes to shove I will sort my own damage out rather than letting the insurance cos deal with it, which would not be worth the hassle and you cannot control the outcome .. if the guy is uninsured there is no point chasing him ............... read the full thread and you will understand the situation
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i have read the full thread and that's why i asked
you don't mention if you had informed your insurance but considering you are on a french policy i wouldn't know if they have the same access as a uk insurance company to inform you if the other car was insured or not

i understand why you havn't considering at first glance it looked as if the other car was not insured and rather than put your no claims and future premiums at risk but arn't you supposed to inform you insurance anyway regardless of fault like we do here in the UK ?
 
cosmicma said:
i have read the full thread and that's why i asked
you don't mention if you had informed your insurance but considering you are on a french policy i wouldn't know if they have the same access as a uk insurance company to inform you if the other car was insured or not

i understand why you havn't considering at first glance it looked as if the other car was not insured and rather than put your no claims and future premiums at risk but arn't you supposed to inform you insurance anyway regardless of fault like we do here in the UK ?
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If you are legally obliged to inform your insurance co in the UK.... how much time do you have ........ should it have been done on Friday or is Monday soon enough

collecting information on the other driver, particularly as a French insurance company will be involved will be useful - the law is different in France and there is a set procedure, (as with many things in France) - minor accidents are not of any interest to the UK police - when you have an accident if you exchange names and addresses and say, "well I cannot remember my insurance details", that seems to by OK in the UK - in France there is a sticker on the windscreen giving these details, (reg of car, insurance start and end, name of insurance company), this is required by law to be on display

In order to assist all involved it is sensible to give the guy time to give me the information that I require and waiting "over the weekend" is, IMHO, the most pragmatic way to go - from my side he has my detail so he can proceed with his insurance company, (if he is insured, I hope he is), with those details and I do not believe i have broken any UK law - giving his reg number to a French Insurance Agent on a Friday would achieve nothing.

I have given you my opinion as to what I will do regarding damage to my car, this being the most pragmatic way forward as far as my loss is concerned.

There is a little damage to my front wing and at worse my car needs a new front wing, £150 and then painting ........ or it could be repaired ...... looking at the side of his car, if he claims all the apparent damage that can be seen was because of the accident, his car will probably be written off as it looked to me because of the sill deterioration and damage to be not worth repairing

I will wait until I have his insurance details, or not,
 
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BillN_33 said:
If you are legally obliged to inform your insurance co in the UK.... how much time do you have ........ should it have been done on Friday or is Monday soon enough

collecting information on the other driver, particularly as a French insurance company will be involved will be useful - the law is different in France and there is a set procedure, (as with many things in France) - minor accidents are not of any interest to the UK police - when you have an accident if you exchange names and addresses and say, "well I cannot remember my insurance details", that seems to by OK in the UK - in France there is a sticker on the windscreen giving these details, (reg of car, insurance start and end, name of insurance company), this is required by law to be on display

In order to assist all involved it is sensible to give the guy time to give me the information that I require and waiting "over the weekend" is, IMHO, the most pragmatic way to go - from my side he has my detail so he can proceed with his insurance company, (if he is insured, I hope he is), with those details and I do not believe i have broken any UK law - giving his reg number to a French Insurance Agent on a Friday would achieve nothing.

I have given you my opinion as to what I will do regarding damage to my car, this being the most pragmatic way forward as far as my loss is concerned.

There is a little damage to my front wing and at worse my car needs a new front wing, £150 and then painting ........ or it could be repaired ...... looking at the side of his car, if he claims all the apparent damage that can be seen was because of the accident, his car will probably be written off as it looked to me because of the sill deterioration and damage to be not worth repairing

I will wait until I have his insurance details, or not,
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fair enough

my current insurers ( admiral ) ask you to inform them within 48 hours of the accident taking place but i don't think it is a strict terms and conditions thing that could void the policy if you didn't

hope you get it sorted with the minimal of fuss i hate dealing with insurance companies there quick enough to take your money, not so enthusiastic when it comes to a claim
 
cosmicma said:
fair enough

my current insurers ( admiral ) ask you to inform them within 48 hours of the accident taking place but i don't think it is a strict terms and conditions thing that could void the policy if you didn't

hope you get it sorted with the minimal of fuss i hate dealing with insurance companies there quick enough to take your money, not so enthusiastic when it comes to a claim
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Thanks Mark - it is the first accident that I have had, but from what I hear you need to carefully control what an insurance company does and gets up to if you do not want to be penalised .... and a little time trying to get things straight can help this ....... although little damage done to my car, I was quite stunned as it seemed to be a high speed accident with a bang .......... ruined my day and just what I need, (at my age!!!), when I am going off the SA for 8 weeks .. a bugger
 
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just to keep you up to date

1). I have still not received info from the other party, despite telling him that I had checked his insurance status on MID and it was "not insured"

2). I was worried over the weekend so I looked at the MID database this morning and for £4 you can get details, which gave his insurance company and that he was insured today the 9th

3). The accident was on the 6th at 09:20 ........ so his insurance co checked - wanted to know the timing and after about 15 mins said he was insured at that time.

4). Apparently a change to his insurance was made on the 5th and that is why the insurance Database showed "uninsured" at 1700hrs but insured at 2200hrs

5). I explained my (French) situation and the nature of the accident and he said that there was no need to report it to the police.

6). I explained that my damage was minor, just a crease on the wheel arch lip ........ but the other guys car was damaged half way along one side in several places from sill to top of door .......... so basically because I had maybe a NCB worth £500 and that my damage was probably less than that .... that maybe I would not make a claim .......... he said that I was not obliged to if I did not wish

so now I think that it just depends what the other guy does
 
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andyscott said:
Report it to the police, as you suspect he was uninsured.
End of story.
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why do you say that when his insurance company have told me that he was insured

I'm off to S Africa in three days - I just don't want any hassle .. happy to let the insurance cos deal with it, if necessary
 
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BillN_33 said:
so now I think that it just depends what the other guy does
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I think you need to take ownership of this. Just ask him for cash up front to pay for the damage to your vehicle or say your going to the police he hadn't provided you with any insurance details.
I mentioned ages ago that he might try and ensure the car after the collision....
 
Rhyswh said:
You should not have left until you had his insurance details, if he refused to give them then I would call the police there and then.
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There is no legal requirement to supply your insurance details to another driver if you have an accident where no injuries are caused.

Registration, name and address (and name and address of vehicle owner if different), that's all that's mandated.

You must:

  • stop and remain at the scene for a reasonable period
  • give your vehicle registration number, your name and address, and that of the vehicle owner (if different), to anyone with reasonable grounds for asking for those details


If you do not exchange those details at the scene, you must report the accident at a police station or to a police constable as soon as you can, and in any case within 24 hours.

Where injury is caused to another person, then in addition to the above you must:

  • Produce your certificate of insurance, if anyone at the scene has reasonable grounds to see it. If you do not, you must report the accident at a police station or to a constable as soon as you can and in any case within 24 hours. You'll need to produce your certificate of insurance. If you don't have your certificate of insurance when reporting the accident to the police, you may take it to the police station you nominate when you report the incident. You must do this within seven days of the accident.
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http://www.theaa.com/motoring_advice/legal-advice/at-the-accident.html
 
Dave1 said:
There is no legal requirement to supply your insurance details to another driver if you have an accident where no injuries are caused.

Registration, name and address (and name and address of vehicle owner if different), that's all that's mandated.



http://www.theaa.com/motoring_advice/legal-advice/at-the-accident.html
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thanks - all OK then - no injuries, stopped at scene, drove to a safe spot afterwards and took details

just a strange situation, the guy insured the car the day before the accident, previous to that he had another car on his policy - the morning of the 6th was his first drive in the car .. really unlucky

it is a useful discussion to have for the benefit of the forum ....... accidents are always annoying but they do happen, fortunately this is my first since the 1980's when my BMW was T boned
 
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andyscott said:
Then why the checks??
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because if I am going to inform my French Insurance Company I need his insurance details ..... it will help them to deal with the matter and in France it is information that you are expected to give them as it is stickered on the windscreen

it is a lot easier in France if you deal with the established procedure
 
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Blank_Canvas said:
France isn't it - they love red tape !
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I have found during my many years in France that following the system exactly gets the job done .. just one line out of place or a missed photocopy and you are back to square one ... as every French person will admit "we love our paperwork, stamping and copies"

But there are many many useful things in the French system that just help things to go smoothly, but you will get minimum help from anyone in a bureaucratic position ....... many examples can be quoted


If you ever get stopped by the french police for speeding - just say very little, shut up and pay up ..... then it's relatively easy ........ it is also an offence in France not to carry your ownership papers, MOT and insurance certs ...... they do not worry about VED as there is none in France. If you are driving a company car it is also very useful to have a letter from the Company to say that you have the owners permission to drive it. Two yellow vest and the usual bulb rubbish, if you get "stroppy" with a french "plod" he will get very stroppy with you.
 
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Have they still got that daft rule about carrying breathalysers? That was the stupidest money making motoring law ever.
 
JonathanRyan said:
Have they still got that daft rule about carrying breathalysers? That was the stupidest money making motoring law ever.
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no it was rescinded ........ they were about 50 pence each . someone made a lot of money and the Government got it's 20% VAT ........... and everyone must have bought at least 4 of them
 
BillN_33 said:
no it was rescinded ........ they were about 50 pence each . someone made a lot of money and the Government got it's 20% VAT ........... and everyone must have bought at least 4 of them
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Ah good. They were about a tenner each here with stories of bored police officers lying in wait at the exit to the tunnel.

I think mine have expired now.
 
just to complete the tale

the guy is insured, he insured the car the day before, 5th January ...... it was his first morning out in it

it took just over a day to update the Insurance Data Base
 
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BillN_33 said:
just to complete the tale

the guy is insured, he insured the car the day before, 5th January ...... it was his first morning out in it

it took just over a day to update the Insurance Data Base
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All is well that ends well, I bet he's glad he did !
 
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