So what about the bad venues/ugly people?

GHP

GHP

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Gary
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There are many threads on this forum from some incredibly experienced and talented wedding photographers, most of whom I would aspire to be a fraction as good as.
However, whenever the sample pics are posted up, the shots are (generally)taken in beautiful venues, and the B&G are good looking.

So what about the ugly people, and the ugly venues? (I'm not trying to start an argument, as I'm no oil painting myself!)

The point I'm trying to make is what about those venues, say for example a small reg.office, no-where nearby to take the party for a nice setting (Gardens/park etc.), and then the reception in a small room above a pub, where the party of 20 people are going afterwards?

This sort of wedding must surely be a lot more of a challenge compared to a grand affair with all the trimmings?

This is a genuine point, I'm not trying to start some sort of argument, just after real life experiences, as I should think this sort of job sorts out the wheat from the chaff.

Thanks in advance for your opinions,

Cheers,
Gary.
 
I have no idea about wedding shooting, but I'd imagine firstly how attractive people are doesn't really matter in terms of pleasing the couple. Sure, make them look good, but they want photos of their day and their friends, not model shoots. As for locales, my knee-jerk would be lots of big aperture lenses, I'd probably reach for my 85 as well as you can then focus on certain bits of the background that are less offensive rather than have to get everything.

I'd imagine the people posting up here tend to post up the photos of the attractive B&Gs and locations because they make for more pleasing photos to everyone who doesn't know the bride and groom, but do plenty of shoots elsewhere that the couple are equally happy with.
 
You'd be surprised how bad a wedding looks with a dis-interested couple, grumpy family and friends who'd rather take photos than congratulate the couple no matter how "beautiful" they are or how grand the venue.

Great weddings are all about two people who love each other surrounded by friends and family that love them as well. The rest can be fixed by angles, lighting (natural or otherwise), and carefully selecting your viewpoint and background.

Check out Jerry Ghionis's pickpocket sets -> Ordinary to Extraordinary

http://www.picpockets.info/artist/jerry-ghionis/ordinary-extraordinary-vol-i/

to see that you can with skill make something from pretty much nothing if you are prepared to look hard and make an effort.
 
ugly people isnt really an issue - Although I did have fun with one wedding where the best man turned up with a black eye and a split lip (punch up the night before - class move :shake:)

I also once had a bride who was nearly as wide as she was tall who said "wiill you make me look thin" I thought, I'm a photographer love, not a magician - but settled on the more tactful "i'll make you look beautiful" - and she was happy with the final results

However ugly venues can be a problem - There are some spectacularly bad venues out there, and its really about your talent as a tog to make a silk purse out of a sows ear - I can think of one venue which had flock wall paper and one of those 1980s garishly patterned pub carpets - I had to resort to shooting everything at wide apperures and relying on bokeh to disguise the true hideousness
 
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Thanks for the responses.
I agree with you Mike, the day is about the couple, and I think I would be more concerned about the venue.
I guess wide open lenses and keeping it fairly tight is the thing here.
 
You shoot the Bride you have in front of you - and they are all more beautiful on their Wedding :)

As for the venues - there are some truly crappy ones but its rare to not find something useful, or where bringing some light to it it can't be made t be interesting/dramatic

Boring venues are the worst though, where everything is dull; truly crappy venues at great contrast to the Dress/Bride

Dave
 
I suppose doing your research and checking out the venue allows you to find somthing nearby where you could work.

With regards to the ugly bride, it will depend on how good her make up artist is.... and the ugly groom?? That depends on how good her eyesight is! : D
 
keifster said:
I suppose doing your research and checking out the venue allows you to find somthing nearby where you could work.
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pretty much - the problem tends to come when it decides to throw it down with rain and you are stuck with the inside of of an unprepossessing **** hole that the B&G picked because either a) it was cheap , or b) because they have no/questionable taste.

Portable backdrops are a god send for individual/couple/small group shots , but large group shots can leave you struggling to obscure the tacky pub carpet or nasty decor - venues with a lot of stuff mounted on the walls are also a bitch as its hard to avoid having lamps/candles/ horse brasses/stuffed animalsd or whatever growing out of guests heads
 
big soft moose said:
pretty much - the problem tends to come when it decides to throw it down with rain and you are stuck with the inside of of an unprepossessing **** hole that the B&G picked because either a) it was cheap , or b) because they have no/questionable taste.

Portable backdrops are a god send for individual/couple/small group shots , but large group shots can leave you struggling to obscure the tacky pub carpet or nasty decor - venues with a lot of stuff mounted on the walls are also a bitch as its hard to avoid having lamps/candles/ horse brasses/stuffed animalsd or whatever growing out of guests heads
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I think this is the point I was trying to make.
If the B&G have both been beaten with the ugly stick, there is nothing to be done, at the end of the day it is their day, and deserve the best pics to show for it. Given that they would hopefully be dressed up, made up and happy will offset it a bit.;)
I think the bigger concern is the venue, as described above. It certainly won't make for an "easy" day.
The reason I ask is that weddings are not something which I do, but it is something which I have been asked to do. So with this in mind, I have built up my kit to include backup bodies, good quality (pro) lenses, I have insurance in place, but I'm still not sure it is something I want to do, due to my lack of experience.
I have just booked myself on to a wedding course with Pete Bristo, and intend to go on Diddy Dave's course also.
Once I have done this, I will do some 2nd shooting to get some "real life" experience.
But I can guarantee that the venues used on any of these type of courses won't be a backstreet reg office !
 
GHP said:
The reason I ask is that weddings are not something which I do, but it is something which I have been asked to do. So with this in mind, I have built up my kit to include backup bodies, good quality (pro) lenses, I have insurance in place, but I'm still not sure it is something I want to do, due to my lack of experience.
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Theres always a first time and it sounds like you are building up to it in the right way.

and to be fair venues that are ireddeemably bad are fairly few and far between - and even those usually have somewhere relatively photogenic nearby (although rain can screw with those plans).

I can think of only two examples (of venues) that were 'king horrible with no redeeming features whatsoever - one was the flock wall paper/pub carpet mentioned above , and the other was a registry office which opened straight onto the street with a shell garage in shot in one direction, and a cash converters on the other side (classy venue)

Fortunately in the latter case there was a small park within 5 minuites walk, more or less on the way to the reception so we did the group shots there (although even there we had to resort to photoshop to remove a poo bin from shot)

The absolutely critical thing is if at all possible you need to recce the venue before hand - most of us can cope with an ugly ass truck stop of a place so long as we know what we are getting - turn up and get suprised on the day and you may be inthe brown and smelly.
 
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I posted about an appalling wedding venue a few weeks ago. When I met the couple it got worse. They were a portly pair, and neither liked smiling.

Luckily the venue inside was better. I used a shallow depth of field most of the day and kept angles head on, as side on shots were unflattering to say the least.

Oh, and it rained all day!!!
 
I've had a couple of pretty bland venues, it's about finding the moments/angles etc :)
 
There is beauty in everything (i think someone once said). Its all about those moments between the couple.
 
Vixen said:
There is beauty in everything (i think someone once said). Its all about those moments between the couple.
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Absolutely. But it definitely helps if the surroundings are pretty too!
 
Vixen said:
There is beauty in everything (i think someone once said). Its all about those moments between the couple.
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The main problem I think is that sometimes those moments just aren't there, which ruins the shots a lot more than just not having a very attractive couple
 
or as Chubby Brown once said "if all brides are beautyful, then where **** do ugly wives come from"

spike
 
I think my biggest concern was horrible venues/receptions rather than the not so beautiful couples. I have had really fat people asking to be "made thin" or people with a face like a bag of spanners asking to be "made gorgeous". You can only do so much with PS after all.
 
Its not about the duff venue and ugly bride, I got roped in to shooting one a few weeks ago and we went to see the venue in advanced to get some ideas and to be honest it was terrible 70/80s brown brick with modern UPVC windows everywhere. There was a fountain with green water and moss everywhere and the weed stopping lining was poking through the stones covering the weed covered floor. Inside had been painted but they had had a leak so it was stained and the carpet stunk as did most of the hotel.

We found one nice patch that you couldn't see much of the car park or the M62 or the building or the many piles of rubbish all over the place broken panel fences and with creative positioning we managed to get some nice shots. I just heard that the bride and groom received their photos and were in tears of happiness as they went through them and surprised how well we had done. But a great venue doesn't offer everything on a plate it still requires some planning, I had a stately home wedding that had TV aerials and the roof access hand rail all over the roof it was a nightmare finding an angle that they weren't in and lots of cloning.
 
meonshore said:
You'd be surprised how bad a wedding looks with a dis-interested couple, grumpy family and friends who'd rather take photos than congratulate the couple no matter how "beautiful" they are or how grand the venue.

Great weddings are all about two people who love each other surrounded by friends and family that love them as well. The rest can be fixed by angles, lighting (natural or otherwise), and carefully selecting your viewpoint and background.

Check out Jerry Ghionis's pickpocket sets -> Ordinary to Extraordinary

http://www.picpockets.info/artist/jerry-ghionis/ordinary-extraordinary-vol-i/

to see that you can with skill make something from pretty much nothing if you are prepared to look hard and make an effort.
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I love this link I could look at these kind of pictures all day long!
 
select your couples, and manage expectations.

Good photography is about their effort and their moments, they have to put the work in, tell them that, or you will have to do everything for them, even tell them to smile!!!

Cant believe how many people have to be told to smile on their wedding day.

venues, they are what they are, you chose them.
 
andyscott said:
they are what they are, you chose them.
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:thinking:

no you dont - the B&G choose them, the tog gets what they are given, which is where the benefit of talent and experience comes in, ie getting good shots at a crap venue

as to it being 'all about their efforts' i'm sorry but thats a load of cobblers too - While it does help if they arent miserable grumpy arses we arent talking about models, but real people who are having one of the most stressed days they will ever encounter - good photography is about your skill in capturing their special moments , its not fair or reasonable to put it on them.

To get great wedding shots you don't want them 'putting effort in' shots should be natural and relaxed otherwise they will just look forced and false - also if people are having to be told to smile then it indicates something wrong either in the togs rapport with the group or with the shoot going on too long
 
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big soft moose said:
:thinking:

no you dont - the B&G choose them, the tog gets what they are given, which is where the benefit of talent and experience comes in, ie getting good shots at a crap venue

as to it being 'all about their efforts' i'm sorry but thats a load of cobblers too - While it does help if they arent miserable grumpy arses we arent talking about models, but real people who are having one of the most stressed days they will ever encounter - good photography is about your skill in capturing their special moments , its not fair or reasonable to put it on them.
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Of course it's reasonable for them to put effort in, you can capture those special moments, but they have to have them. If they are stiff rigid and don't buy into you, it's up hill work. You know we all get them.

The venue yes the b&g choose it that's what I meant.
 
if they are stiff and rigid you won't get them to unbend by telling them they've got to put effort in

barring the few that we all get who are going to be a nightmare whatever you do, most of the time people arent going to be stiff and rigid so long as the togs people skills are up to the job, a large part of which is about getting people to relax and have fun.

at the end of the day the day is about them, you are just their to record it , and special moments occur more naturally and more often if the B&G don't feel under pressure to produce them.

Personally if you'd told me I "had to put the work in" when i was getting married I'd have told you to **** right off and hired someone else.
 
Gary (OP) without meaning any disrespect whatsoever, a few years down the line you may look at this post and cringe. Having the kit – sorting the legalities, getting a pic under any conditions, is the bare minimum.

Empathy and creativity – channel your energy into that rather than making unfunny remarks about people you don’t like the look of.

if they are stiff and rigid you won't get them to unbend by telling them they've got to put effort in
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I think in this day and age it's wise to ask the B&G to put some effort in. :)
Not in any big way that ruins their day, just ask them to give you a three or four second window for important shots were they look at your camera rather than the guests, which are more akin to a pushy, shouting press pack these days.
 
Mitch38 said:
Gary (OP) without meaning any disrespect whatsoever, a few years down the line you may look at this post and cringe. Having the kit – sorting the legalities, getting a pic under any conditions, is the bare minimum.
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Hi Mitch.
Firstly, I don't understand why you think I should cringe in the future regarding this thread. I asked a question which in my opinion is a valid consideration when investigating a branch of photography with which I am not familiar. As such, before I can make an informed decision on whether to attempt to break into this field, I need to ask as many questions as I can. I was more concerned with the bad venues, to be honest, but the issue of the less attractive people also came to mind. Some of the answers on this thread have been very useful with regard to these points. Might be obvious to most who read this, but to me, as a beginner, it helps to get people's opinions.

As for having the kit, legalities etc being the bare minimum, I agree, and have them in place. I did this before I started researching whether weddings are for me or not.

Mitch38 said:
Empathy and creativity – channel your energy into that rather than making unfunny remarks about people you don’t like the look of.
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I don't see where I have made unfunny remarks about "people I don't like the look of". As for creativity, I am working hard to improve my "vision" for those creative shots. This includes attending courses, and practising etc. This is a huge learning curve, coming from a scientific background, but I will get there eventually, and won't move forward until I am happy with that side of it.

I have recently done my first 2nd shooter wedding, and I intend to do a lot more before I decide whether weddings are for me or not. This will take me a couple of years, and even then I might decide to leave it to the more experienced pros.

So I think I am "channelling my energy" in exactly the correct way, which I suspect is a lot more than others are prepared to do before jumping in with both feet, unprepared, and not giving the happy couple exactly what they deserve on the biggest day of their lives.
 
I've personally never had an ugly bride.

But then everyone here who's shot a wedding knew that.

When I started out there was no such thing as the Internet, and the only pro images I ever saw we're of really beautiful brides in really beautiful venues. This led me to believe I could never shoot pictures of that quality. Which upset me.

Nowadays, anyone with an interest in this business can see hundreds of thousands of wedding images, ordinary people in ordinary locations.

They can also learn from others experiences, financial, photographic and marketing. They have exif data and instant feedback on their pictures, and peer review at the click of a mouse. All these things cost me thousands in training.

With six months research you can find out more about being a wedding photographer than I did in 5 years and for free too.

I've said it before, but the photography is about 20% of your job on the day. And if you decide to go into business, photography becomes about 5% of what you do. I think it's Annabel Williams who teaches that portrait photography is 80% psychology.

Part of your 80% is seeing the opportunities and keeping everyone's energy levels up. Once you've lost the couples support its difficult to regain.

There are rare occasions where the pictures matter so little to the B&G that you can't manipulate the situation, but I've never had it, I've only read others accounts. Even my most reticent brides could be made to pose for something special. They're not all 21 with an eye on a modelling career.
 
I have had some less than amazing wedding venues and on a couple of occassions, less than amazing brides. Luckily, I have only had the double combination once!

As others have said, there is plenty you can do to mask the venue and clearly the bride and groom know what they look like - you can flatter them but no make them look beautiful.

These are often the weddings I practice my creativity.
 
Saw a T shirt made me smile.....

'Photoshop, helping ugly peaple since 1988....'

That and portraits Pro... lesson those wrinkles.....

Any soft ware for Bingo Wings?

You as the tog do what you have to with what you have.... Many tecniques and as Dave the not so tall said. '
its rare to not find something useful, or where bringing some light to it it can't be made t be interesting/dramatic
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You just shoot them as per normal, making every effort not to draw attention to anything looking shoddy... Also making every effort to flatter the B&G as much as you can

It's part of being a professional photographer, end of
 
Agree with Richard and if you feel that you're going to let their appearance affect your work on the day in a negative way then you shouldn't take the booking.
 
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