Soft Images

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Hi all,

I'm two games into pre-season after months without shooting football and I've noticed quite a few of my images are coming out soft, especially faces.

I use Canon 1d MK IV with Sigma 300mm 2.8. The mount on the lens is a bit wobbly bit was a bit when I got it and got sharp images when first started using it.

Been playing around with different AF points and still can't get most images sharp

I don't think I'm missing focus cause I'm using either the top two points, one below and centre point focus but maybe i need to use a different focus point?

Anyone have any ideas what to do?

Here's a photo to show the softness.
 

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Lack of sharpness could be down to a whole load of different issues, ranging through user technique, camera settings etc. First thing to do is to establish just what 'sharp' means for that particular lens by testing it on a range of static and moving objects and making sure it is properly calibrated to your 1D4 body. Also do this with one or more other bodies.

Doing these things will give you a baseline to start from and help to establish the cause of what you're seeing in your pics. If it looks like it's the lens or body that is at fault you can go on to explore the options for getting repairs done. Just don't jump to any conclusions until you've learned everything you can about this lens and camera combo.
 
Will try those, thank you.
As I said it was sharp before so just don’t understand why it’s suddenly soft now.
 
Just a FWIW........sometime back (a few weeks?) there was a thread that went something along lines of:-
Live view in sharp focus but focus using OVF was missing focus a tad. NB I recall this was not from a 1Dmk4 owner but was a Canon

I think I recall that someone suggested/advised that dust or debris on the focus module would affect AF functioning properly....solution was to use the rocket blower to 'blow out' that area. Not 100% sure but I think it was a case of apply mirror lockup and blow out the area in the base area of the mirror box, this being where the AF module is located.

I am fairly sure for the poster in the thread it solved the poor AF issue.
 
Box Brownie said:
Just a FWIW........sometime back (a few weeks?) there was a thread that went something along lines of:-
Live view in sharp focus but focus using OVF was missing focus a tad. NB I recall this was not from a 1Dmk4 owner but was a Canon

I think I recall that someone suggested/advised that dust or debris on the focus module would affect AF functioning properly....solution was to use the rocket blower to 'blow out' that area. Not 100% sure but I think it was a case of apply mirror lockup and blow out the area in the base area of the mirror box, this being where the AF module is located.

I am fairly sure for the poster in the thread it solved the poor AF issue.
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Have given that a go, so will test to see if that helps.

Anyone think it'll be worth get the mount wobble fixed as well? Would do it myself but I can't seem to get the screws unscrewed.
 
"a bit wobbly"......

It's hard to quantify from that description but you should be aware that the depth of focus (depth of field in the image plane) is very critical and a small change in the register distance will put the focal plane in the wrong place. In short, a small movement between the lens and sensor will translate into a far more noticeable shift in the plane of sharp focus if the movement is not along the axis of the lens.
 
Aside from the obvious issues associated with a defective lens, is anything that's not moving sharp in your images, the grass for instance? If so, is that patch of sharpness on the same distance plane as the moving objects? If so, it's probably motion blur. If not, is the lens front of back focusing?

If it's not motion blur then it sounds like you need to get the lens fixed if there's movement in the mount, as tweaking it with a Sigma dock may well be futile if there's movement in the mount - you'll be tuning it for one position only to have the lens potentially move to another when it's on the camera. If you're happy enough with the lens itself the I'd get a quote to have it fixed. Perhaps give Sigma a call and have a chat with them about it and obtain a shortlist of approved repairers then get some quotes.
 
Seems shooting on a cloudy day helped a bit. Installed a focus point viewer on lightroom to see where my focus is on the my laptop and found even though I'm not focused straight on the face, it's mostly chest area. Started shooting at a lower aperture of f5 to see if that helps the faces still come out a bit soft, see example below.
 

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andrewc said:
I've had a case where the lens mount was starting to unscrew. Get out the miniature screwdriver kit and check tightness.
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Yeah tried, got one screw turned but the rest won't budge, I believe in Sigma lenses there are screws underneath the mount that tighten it, but as I said, I can't unscrew the mount screws to get to them.
 
Test your combo on a tripod aiming at static objects and see whether you can achieve critically sharp results. If you can’t using a tripod and static targets you know it’s deffo you equipment. From your examples I can’t detect front nor back focussing. Perhaps there’s an issue with your lens. Have you tried using different lenses to see if the issue persists?
 
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I can see lots of stuff in your images that are sharp.
It may be coincidental but the soft part of the image seems to be in the same area each time.
Is it possible you have a smear or something on your sensor?

Can I ask what your shutter speed was for the pictures?
 
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gilbouk said:
I can’t see anything that’s sharp in these 3 examples
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Ok, on my works monitor, the shirts look sharper than the faces.
These are tiny images so I was not expecting to find critical sharpness anywhere.
 
soupdragon said:
Ok, on my works monitor, the shirts look sharper than the faces.
These are tiny images so I was not expecting to find critical sharpness anywhere.
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Yeah, to be honest the images I posted on here are lower quality than the original so maybe why it doesn't look sharp at all. Had some success last couple weeks with 'sharper images' but the past weekend I didn't get anything great at all.
 

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Going to try lens adjustments, to see where it's focusing, just hope my tripod can stay still with a telephoto on it
 
soupdragon said:
I can see lots of stuff in your images that are sharp.
It may be coincidental but the soft part of the image seems to be in the same area each time.
Is it possible you have a smear or something on your sensor?

Can I ask what your shutter speed was for the pictures?
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There are a few scratches from when I bought it second hand, but they didn't affect my images when I first started using it
 
Jordan H said:
Yeah, to be honest the images I posted on here are lower quality than the original so maybe why it doesn't look sharp at all. Had some success last couple weeks with 'sharper images' but the past weekend I didn't get anything great at all.
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Scratches on the front element won’t effect sharpness. Even with the images being reduced quality, in my opinion they shouldn’t look that soft.

You could send your sharpest photo in raw format by Dropbox / googledrive for us to take a closer look

If you are shooting nice fast shutter speeds of 1/1000 upwards and you’re not getting at least 1 completely tack sharp image when focusing on the players face / eyes then I’d be suspicious of your equipment, particularly if your player is stood still. Putting your camera on a steady tripod, or even a solid table and taking shots with the focus spot on an identifiable part of a static object, eliminates technique - and if you are not getting tack sharp images of a static object at f/8 with a camera that’s not moving in good light , and using reasonable shutter speeds then there’s likely an equipment issue. Make sure your target is fairly large in the frame.

If the images you get are still soft - next you would try a different lens (doesn’t need to be the same focal length), if you get sharp images with a different lens - you know your original lens is the issue. If you find your getting soft images with a different lens, try a different body with the original lens. Through a process of elimination you should be able to ascertain which item is causing you issues.

Continuing to shoot without trying to diagnose the issue will likely continue to give you disappointing results.
 
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Jordan H said:
Going to try lens adjustments, to see where it's focusing, just hope my tripod can stay still with a telephoto on it
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As per Post #7, I think it might be the lens staying still on its mount that you need to be more concerned about. :whistle:
 
Mr Badger said:
As per Post #7, I think it might be the lens staying still on its mount that you need to be more concerned about. :whistle:
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Yeah think you're right, tried again to unscrew it the tighten the screw under it but still no luck, just the one screw comes loose. Just looks at Sigma repairs and the 300mm looks like nearly £200 for repairs, all I need is some screws tightened, don't want to spend nearly £200 just for that.

Also here's a link to my latest match so you can see the images in better quality: https://www.flickr.com/photos/jordanhampton/albums/72157715867172326
 
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Jordan H said:
Yeah think you're right, tried again to unscrew it the tighten the screw under it but still no luck, just the one screw comes loose. Just looks at Sigma repairs and the 300mm looks like nearly £200 for repairs, all I need is some screws tightened, don't want to spend nearly £200 just for that.

Also here's a link to my latest match so you can see the images in better quality: https://www.flickr.com/photos/jordanhampton/albums/72157715867172326
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Perhaps give Sigma UK a call and see if you can discuss things with one of their technical staff. I found them very friendly and helpful in the past... but that was before lockdown and furlough, etc. so they may not have staff around immediately. Hopefully they might be able to negotiate a cheaper repair, or at least let you know why it's likely to be £200 if a cheap repair isn't going to be possible.

Just looked at your images and the XIF on one or two and it seems you're shooting mostly at max aperture. As a general comment, maybe think about going up a stop or two and seeing if the ISO increase will give you usable shots. f/8 would give you more DoF leeway if you can get away with it. Might be worth trying a shot or two like that next time and see how you go?
 
Joking aside, my suggestion was more as a stop-gap until he gets his lens sorted. Better to have a few keepers than a whole load of OoF rejects? I had a similar issue with a Sigma 100-400 that was front focusing, so for the couple of times I used it before I got the Sigma dock and made time to calibrate it, I stopped it down to increase the DoF. Not ideal, but I got a couple of shots I wouldn't have got without it. It's spot on now, so I can go back to wafery thin DoF if I want, but that's half an afternoon of calibration time I won't get back! :rolleyes:
 
Can you possibly give some feedback on what the problem was with your image issues, for all of us who took the trouble to offer help and advice?
Cheers.
 
Sideshow Alvie said:
Can you possibly give some feedback on what the problem was with your image issues, for all of us who took the trouble to offer help and advice?
Cheers.
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Yeah, to be honest I'm still not sure, been shooting a F7.1 last couple of game and it's been fine, images are in focus and sharper. So not sure what the issue if the images shooting at a higher aperture.
 
Jordan H said:
Yeah, to be honest I'm still not sure, been shooting a F7.1 last couple of game and it's been fine, images are in focus and sharper. So not sure what the issue if the images shooting at a higher aperture.
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Hi

How are you getting on with this lens?

I'd check to see if the lens is front or back focusing first. Has it, or the body been knocked by any chance? Get a calibration test card for a few quid from ebay or amazon, put your camera on a tripod and see what results you get.

About a year ago I bought a lovely Nikon 70-200mm F4 that is very highly rated. Couldn't get a single sharp image out of it. However...it soon became apparent the gear was front focusing. Mainly my Nikon D7200 which is front focusing by about -10 with the lens -4. Total amount -14. Using the AF fine adjust pushing it back to +14 got lovely sharp images.

When you start to close the aperture any B/F focus issues start to become less apparent.

Couple of examples here of what FF looks like on a test card. Not an extreme example but you can see the difference. Could have done with a little more light too.


As you can see the rear numbers on the left are far more out of focus. The sharpest point is probably somewhere between the front number 1 and 2
calib2.JPG


The sharpest point is probably at or around the 0 point. Where it should be. This was with AF Fine tuning pushed back more.
calib1.JPG

Bear in mind the entire test card should only fill at quarter of the frame maximum, so when you zoom up onto the image as depicted above its not going to be super clear.

I'd be doing the above first of all.

Cheers
 
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