Sony RX1 announced.

Cagey75 said:
They will make a big deal about the lens, an f/2 prime ... but it's 35mm, on full frame. I wouldn't be using that much for portraiture, you certainly won't be using it for sports. It's a very limited package for the money.

The D600 is due to be announced, a tidy full frame, with a similar , if not the same sensor as this. Apparently it's going to be around $1500, add on a 50mm 1.4 and you have a much juicer package for a lot less.
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35mm f/2 is a great choice of lens to have on full frame, it's been a much used focal length for Leica shooters for years. A D600 is just another DSLR, the Sony is something completely different. The lens should be good too, better than a Nikon 50mm f/1.4.
 
Cagey75 said:
The D600 is due to be announced, a tidy full frame, with a similar , if not the same sensor as this. Apparently it's going to be around $1500,
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we'll see. I've already seen 1 suggestion this morning that it's going to be more.
& you can't fit a D600+lens in a large pocket or handbag.

It's a low volume product & priced accordingly.
There is actually a section or people who wouldn't buy it if it was cheap(er).
 
Laudrup said:
35mm f/2 is a great choice of lens to have on full frame, it's been a much used focal length for Leica shooters for years. A D600 is just another DSLR, the Sony is something completely different. The lens should be good too, better than a Nikon 50mm f/1.4.
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In your opinion. It could be said this new Sony is just another Leica rip-off.

35mm isn't versatile enough for my needs, that's what counts to me personally. I don't care what others do with it tbh.
 
Cagey75 said:
They will make a big deal about the lens, an f/2 prime ... but it's 35mm, on full frame. I wouldn't be using that much for portraiture, you certainly won't be using it for sports. It's a very limited package for the money.

The D600 is due to be announced, a tidy full frame, with a similar , if not the same sensor as this. Apparently it's going to be around $1500, add on a 50mm 1.4 and you have a much juicer package for a lot less.
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Add on a Nikon 35mm 1.4 and you have about the same price as this.
 
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Cagey75 said:
In your opinion. It could be said this new Sony is just another Leica rip-off.

35mm isn't versatile enough for my needs, that's what counts to me personally. I don't care what others do with it tbh.
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Don't buy it then, stick with the D90.
 
I'm buying a D800 ... not that's it's anything to do with you or your opinion :D

Do you just troll this place all day long looking for arguments? Serious question ...
 
Laudrup said:
35mm f/2 is a great choice of lens to have on full frame, it's been a much used focal length for Leica shooters for years. A D600 is just another DSLR, the Sony is something completely different. The lens should be good too, better than a Nikon 50mm f/1.4.
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Still overpriced and regardless, still limited. It would be limited at any focal length due to not being interchangeable.
 
Phil Young said:
Still overpriced and regardless, still limited. It would be limited at any focal length due to not being interchangeable.
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Yes overpriced aren't they all? Not as overpriced as every other full frame camera on the market. This is the same price as the d600 body only. The rx1 has a zeiss 35mm lens yes obviously its limited but i bet its a blinder.
 
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rjbell said:
Yes overpriced aren't they all? Not as overpriced as every other full frame camera on the market. This is the same price as the d600 body only. The rx1 has a zeiss 35mm lens yes obviously its limited but i bet its a blinder.
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Come on mate, its got a fixed focal length, no VF...its not "every other FF", its a very small but very limited one.

That (to me at least) makes it over priced.
 
Phil Young said:
Come on mate, its got a fixed focal length, no VF...its not "every other FF", its a very small but very limited one.

That (to me at least) makes it over priced.
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No i won't be buying it! I agree no viewfinder is appalling at this price, but ziess lenses don't come cheap. There 35mm f2 interchangeable lens costing around a $1000. I'm not saying it will be as good as that, but you get the drift.
 
Cagey75 said:
Surely you mean D800? As it is actually more expensive than the D800 going on the figures bandied about.
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No this is going to be $2800 and nikon rumours are saying the d600 is going to be ¥215,000 or US$2700.
 
Cagey75 said:
Surely you mean D800? As it is actually more expensive than the D800 going on the figures bandied about.
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UK list for a D800 is £2599. Street price is lower but the same will be true of the Sony after the initial rush.
 
Cagey75 said:
I'm buying a D800 ... not that's it's anything to do with you or your opinion :D

Do you just troll this place all day long looking for arguments? Serious question ...
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I've already got a D800. $1500 for the D600, are you just making these figures up as you go?
 
Phil Young said:
Still overpriced and regardless, still limited. It would be limited at any focal length due to not being interchangeable.
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Overpriced compared to what though? There's nothing to compare it to. It's a big step in the right direction regardless of the initial launch price which always goes down anyway.
 
Laudrup said:
Overpriced compared to what though? There's nothing to compare it to. It's a big step in the right direction regardless of the initial launch price which always goes down anyway.
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Agree, it is out on it's own and priced at what it costs to make plus usual profit margins and room for price lowering in future as per any other camera.

It is not going to be for everyone, in fact it doesn't look like it will be for many based on the comments from the small group inputting here but the effort can't be knocked even if it ends up costing Sony on this attempt.
 
Laudrup said:
Overpriced compared to what though? There's nothing to compare it to. It's a big step in the right direction regardless of the initial launch price which always goes down anyway.
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I have maintained from the start that I feel its overpriced. I am not the only one that feels that way and you are free to make up your own mind, we don't have to convince each other on the reasons...but for my own use and what I would look for, its over priced.

I respect it if you think it's not, I don't have to try and convince you otherwise but as I said, for me...
 
ernesto said:
Agree, it is out on it's own and priced at what it costs to make plus usual profit margins and room for price lowering in future as per any other camera.

It is not going to be for everyone, in fact it doesn't look like it will be for many based on the comments from the small group inputting here but the effort can't be knocked even if it ends up costing Sony on this attempt.
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Just to add to the above...

Obviously they have their production costs etc but do they have to put a ridiculously expensive lens in it and could they sell this camera without it? ...probably, like you said, there isn't anything else as direct competition.

In my opinion they have just drawn the line between customers and targeted a certain crowd.

I feel of they combined a more moderately priced lens in this compact FF body, it would still sell and more people would buy.

I don't think they need the name Zeiss to make it sell because there isn't a camera like it at the moment.

Having said all the above, perhaps they will bring out a cheaper version, who knows...
 
If Sony cheap out on the camera to start with who is going to care when the RX2 launches? Much better to start strong, generate interest and desirability and maybe introduce a scaled down version down the line like Fuji seem to be doing with the Xpro. Zeiss will be more than the name too they have the optical mastery and in conjunction with Sony/Cosina I'd trust them to create something special.
 
Laudrup said:
If Sony cheap out on the camera to start with who is going to care when the RX2 launches? Much better to start strong, generate interest and desirability and maybe introduce a scaled down version down the line like Fuji seem to be doing with the Xpro. Zeiss will be more than the name too they have the optical mastery and in conjunction with Sony/Cosina I'd trust them to create something special.
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Well that's your view and you are welcome to it, I have a different view...doesn't really matter at the end of the day...
 
The Cyber-shot RX1 compact, fixed lens camera will be available this November for about $2800.

The FDA-EV1K electric viewfinder and FDA-V1K optical viewfinder will each be available at launch for about $450 and $600, respectively.

The thumb grip, lens hood and jacket case will also be available at launch for about $250, $180 and $250, respectively.
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Not being forced to use an electronic finder seems a good idea, even the best ones always seem odd to me. It does look like a Leica strategy too, premium price and practically force people into buying the accessories to make it worthwhile. Gutsy from Sony though, and if Fuji scaled up their Xpro sensor it would be interesting.
 
I don't think i'd buy one, but it's good that Sony have put something out that's a bit different. I guess in 18months time they will be down at £1200, making way for the RX2.

It's more interesting than another identikit DSLR.
 
I think it's interesting, but over priced. It will come down after a few months, but to what is anyone's guess.

I don't agree that they could have put a lower quality lens on it to keep the price down. A FF sensor needs a quality lens, and if it didn't have a wide aperture, that would have crippled it in a lot of peoples eyes. :shrug:

It is a premium product, and not aimed for huge sales, but it will be interesting to see how it fairs in reviews.

Sony have really been coming from all directions the last couple of months, RX100, a couple of NEX cameras, a few cropped SLT cameras, and now the RX1 and a FF SLT. :eek: It would be interesting to see how many they sell in comparison to each other, because they are all different ideas and concepts. :thinking:
 
Willo said:
I get a feeling this is a first gen product and probably the basis for the FF Nex. Kudos to Sony for releasing it though, most companies wouldn't have the balls too, instead they peddle out their incremental model updates.
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redhed17 said:
Sony have really been coming from all directions the last couple of months, RX100, a couple of NEX cameras, a few cropped SLT cameras, and now the RX1 and a FF SLT. :eek: It would be interesting to see how many they sell in comparison to each other, because they are all different ideas and concepts. :thinking:
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Interesting article on the RX1; the second and third paragraphs in particular on the point about internal competition between the NEX and Cyber-shot compact camera teams, which may go some way to explaining all the different releases from Sony and why the RX1 may not lead directly to a full frame NEX (although that's probably in the pipeline)

http://www.photoclubalpha.com/2012/09/10/sony-aims-for-the-sky-rx1/
 
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Musicman said:
Interesting article on the RX1; the second and third paragraphs in particular on the point about internal competition between the NEX and Cyber-shot compact camera teams, which may go some way to explaining all the different releases from Sony and why the RX1 may not lead directly to a full frame NEX (although that's probably in the pipeline)

http://www.photoclubalpha.com/2012/09/10/sony-aims-for-the-sky-rx1/
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That was interesting, thanks for posting. :)

It could explain the scatter gun approach to some of their releases. :thinking:

The internal competition they may be employing could be good in pushing their different teams to come up with innovative ideas, but the losers ideas may end up in a range that disappears. :shrug:

Not very good for customer loyalty and confidence if your upgrade path is no longer there, and it happens consistently. :suspect:

Sony DSLR user have been left in the lurch with their move to SLT cameras for example.
 
Looks like it might be a winner if early amazon sales are anything to go by. The rx1 is ranked higher than the A99 on pre orders!

Source: sonyalpharumours
 
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This camera will pave the way for other manufacturers to put FF sensors in their compact cameras. It's just a matter of time before Leicas USP is challenged at a much more affordable price. Can't wait.
 
Laudrup said:
This doesn't make any sense.
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I'd guess in this case "customers" means the larger photographic community and a "certain crowd" means rich casual users.

I do tend to agree with him, the size saving over everything else, lack of OVF/EVF, pop up flash and lack of manual controls does seem to say "rich mans P&S" to me.

Just seems like a lack of ambition by Sony to me, they've got the first FF compact not at Leica level money and they target it at a relatively small niche market.
 
Don't under estimate the number people in the world with more money that they can realistically spend.

For a lot of people £2000 is nothing and it has to be said if you want the best P+S this one is going to take some beating!

There is nothing wrong with wanting the absolutely best images you can get from a P+S, some people want great IQ but don't want a D800 or the like. How many there are and if SOny will make a profit from it remains to be seen I suppose.
 
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Moreorless said:
I'd guess in this case "customers" means the larger photographic community and a "certain crowd" means rich casual users.

I do tend to agree with him, the size saving over everything else, lack of OVF/EVF, pop up flash and lack of manual controls does seem to say "rich mans P&S" to me.

Just seems like a lack of ambition by Sony to me, they've got the first FF compact not at Leica level money and they target it at a relatively small niche market.
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It's a Sony full frame compact with a Zeiss lens, it is going to target a specific enthusiast market with a premium price given the technology involved and it being first to market. Sony showcasing their technology is a good strategy, crippling it on purpose so a few more people might buy it can and probably will come later.
 
Moreorless said:
I'd guess in this case "customers" means the larger photographic community and a "certain crowd" means rich casual users.

I do tend to agree with him, the size saving over everything else, lack of OVF/EVF, pop up flash and lack of manual controls does seem to say "rich mans P&S" to me.

Just seems like a lack of ambition by Sony to me, they've got the first FF compact not at Leica level money and they target it at a relatively small niche market.
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Lack of ambition is the last thing you could say about Sony at the minute with the two RX models both one of a kinds.
 
rjbell said:
Lack of ambition is the last thing you could say about Sony at the minute with the two RX models both one of a kinds.
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Agree. Sony are pushing things more than pretty much anyone else over the last few years.

If only Sony knew what the people on this thread know about how to run a very large international company think how good they could be. :)
 
Laudrup said:
It's a Sony full frame compact with a Zeiss lens, it is going to target a specific enthusiast market with a premium price given the technology involved and it being first to market. Sony showcasing their technology is a good strategy, crippling it on purpose so a few more people might buy it can and probably will come later.
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I'd argue that Fuji had sucess with the X100 because they held back from exploiting there first to market status and priced it at a level that made it affordable to the wider market. They could probabley have sold it for £1500 at launch and it would have done decent business but I'm guessing overall profits and interest generated would have been less.

Sony's tactics with the RX1 seem more similar to Leica's with the X1 to me, looking to exploit a first to market advanatge by charging a prenium and so arguebley squardering there position.

An RX1 with either a better speced body or a lower price could potentially have been a great sucess for Sony IMHO.
 
Moreorless said:
I'd argue that Fuji had sucess with the X100 because they held back from exploiting there first to market status and priced it at a level that made it affordable to the wider market. They could probabley have sold it for £1500 at launch and it would have done decent business but I'm guessing overall profits and interest generated would have been less.

Sony's tactics with the RX1 seem more similar to Leica's with the X1 to me, looking to exploit a first to market advanatge by charging a prenium and so arguebley squardering there position.

An RX1 with either a better speced body or a lower price could potentially have been a great sucess for Sony IMHO.
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I'd argue the x100 at launch was just as over priced as the rx-1 is now, being double the price of an entry level aps-c dslr. This isn't double the price of an entry level FF camera like the d600.
 
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rjbell said:
I'd argue the x100 at launch was just as over priced as the rx-1 is now, being double the price of an entry level aps-c dslr. This isn't double the price of an entry level FF camera like the d600.
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I don't believe thats a fair compairson, the D600 while it maybe Nikons cheapest FF DSLR at the moment is obviously much higher spec than an entry level crop DSLR, something like the D300 seems a much better equivilent to me.

Plus of course with the X100 you got a built in OVF/EVF that was arguebley its biggest selling point where as with the RX1 your probabley looking at another £300-500 for an OVF or an EVF.
 
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