Sony RX100 mk1 or something else? Maybe M43? X20? Confused!

Zarch

Zarch

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Mick
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Have had a Canon S95 as a pocketable backup to my D7000 for those days when I don't want to take out the big one.

But its been showing its age lately so i've moved it on.

Have been considering a second hand Sony RX100 mk1 (around £200) but wondering if there are other options at that price range?

IQ is probably the number one requirement as well as being jeans/coat pocketable size. (maybe willing to slide on this a bit)

Pop-up flash....... fill flash.

Main subject will be the kids, so decent AF probably required.

I would like Wi-Fi, but know I would have to pay an extra ~£100 for that and get the RX100 mk2, so not a show stopper if I can't get it.

Obviously, shooting RAW is a no brainer.

Any other cameras people can think of that I could look at?

Thanks.
 
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I made the same move and have no regrets. The difference in IQ is very real. As for alternatives, I'm not sure there are any. As for the later marks, they offer incremental improvements but from my PoV I can't imagine the IQ is going to be much different for the average shot taken in average conditions so I have stuck with my well used and loved Mk1 - it's taken a lot to resist the GAS though!(-:
 
Given that image quality is a function of sensor size, and that there are no other cameras as small as the Sony with that size sensor, I think your options are minimal! I have a Fuji XF1 as my pocket camera which is a similar form factor, and the results are very nice but I suspect the Sony would give better IQ. The new Canon G7X would be about the only direct competitor with the same sensor, but not for £200.
 
Seems to be a bit slow on the 2nd hand RX100 market, i'm wondering if I should be considering a M43 system?

The zoom of the RX100 would be wasted on me to be honest. for 99% of the time on my D7000 I have my 17-50 attached, so something M43 similar?

But am I right in reading that i'd lose the control ring on a M43? My S95 had it and love that you can instantly change the aperture etc.
My D7000 has two dials that I can use for shutter/aperture etc, would I have to be diving into menus on M43 to change things?

If M43, which body and which 17-40/17-50 type lens should I consider? Any suggestions as it seems like a minefield. :)

I still want to the smallest possible package, as near to rx100 size as possible?

Appreciate I probably won't get what I want for my initial £200 budget too. ;)
 
Hi Mick

I have just got an e-m10 today. You can change the aperture on it like you do on the d7000 ie via the dial. Regarding lenses, I'm still learning - there isn't a direct 17-50 replacement as far as I'm aware ( i'm probably wrong ) but the for closest you're either looking at 12-40 f2.8 (£500) or the slower 12-50 which is pretty cheap. There's a 9-18 as well which is approx £ 380 i think but its not f2.8.

For a gauge, the body and my 45mm f1.8 is just a gnats deeper than the d7000 body

Heres a comparison of the d7000 with 17-50 ( 1350g ) and e-m10 with 12-40 ( 782 g )

http://camerasize.com/compact/#7.312,521.412,ha,t

it really is small enough to put in your coat pocket with the 14-42
 
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I know they're getting a lot of recommendations these days but have you considered an EOS M? £200 gets you a brand new kit with a stabilised 18-55mm and small flash. An extra £80 or so gets you a 22mm f2 lens. It's essentially the innards of a 650D in a smaller package, meaning an 18MP APS-C sensor too. The body with the 22mm lens won't be a massive amount bigger than the Sony, with the 18-55 it'll still comfortably fit in a coat pocket.

If you look at reviews there was initially scepticism surrounding operating and focus speed, both of which have been resolved by firmware updates
 
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Thanks Damian/Andy,

Like anything, you start researching something else (M43) and what you originally wanted (RX100) pops up in the classifieds within the same I hour I posted about M43, so I bought it. :)

Will see how I get on with the RX100, hopefully it will do the job for a while, but i'm certainly interested in the M43 format moving forward.

Although one off putting thing appeared to the be the price of the lenses. It looks like you have to pay quite a lot for decent glass and the decent glass is BIG, in comparison with everything else M43.

Whilst the manufacturers seemed hell bent on squeezing down the size of the bodies, the 'better' (and by virtue, usually larger) lenses looked out of place on the smaller bodies and certainly didn't make the package 'pocketable', not jeans pocketable anyway in an RX100 way.

I really liked the look of the some of the Panasonic units; GF5, GF6, GX7 and GM1. But even the tiny GM1 (smaller body than RX100) with the miraculous 12-32 attached is bigger than the RX100. Plus, with the 12-32 you are losing stops due to 3.5-4.5 vs 1.8 on the RX100. Granted, the sensor is bigger so that probably even things out and its only 1.8 at wide angle, but still, shows what an amazing all round package the RX100 is crammed into that small body.

Maybe I need to get away from 'pocketable' and I might have a chance. ;)
 
I thought i'd come to a decision, in fact I did come to a decision...... I bought a mk1 RX100 in the classifieds, BUT.............

I've got to move it on. I've talked at length in the RX100 thread, but I simply cannot live without Auto-ISO in manual mode. Its my preferred shooting method and I love it. The RX100 mk1 (or mk2) don't allow it. I naively assume all 'decent' cameras like my D7000 had this feature.

So what next???

Not sure I can drop £450 (over twice the price of a mk1) for a 2nd hand mk3 RX100 for just a single feature. Although it would mitigate the £35 I spent on a spare battery, grip, screen protectors and a bag for the mk1 this week. doh!

The Canon G7X sounds awesome, but £500 new and maybe £350 2nd hand is pushing my budget, but it does add Wi-Fi etc which would be useful and its still a 1" sensor.

I have considered a few Panasonic; LX7 etc, but they fail at the Auto-ISO in M hurdle.

As Phil Young suggested earlier, how about a Fuji X10...... so why not the X20. Granted, its bigger, but it does everything else I want, plus the bonus of the manual zoom ring and fast AF. I might have to give up the trouser pocket-ability and get a wee hip case? And I should be able to get one on budget?

mmmmmmmm, decisions decisions...... would love some more bright ideas/advice/comments if anyone has any? :)
 
silly question, but why cant you shoot in apature proiety and auto iso ?

the newer sony models have auto iso in manual i think, sadly my a77 doesnt :(
 
pingu666 said:
silly question, but why cant you shoot in apature proiety and auto iso ?

the newer sony models have auto iso in manual i think, sadly my a77 doesnt :(
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From my post of the rx100 thread.

Its all abut being able to keep shutter speed high to freeze motion whilst at the same time not shooting wide open and having too narrow DOF.

Zarch said:
Ok, here's my beef with my new (2nd hand) mk1 RX100.

95% of the time i'm shooting my young kids. When i'm using my D7000 I slip it into Manual with Auto ISO. I'm usually somewhere around 1/250 and f4 by default then let the light (and ISO) decide whether I need to tweak either Aperture or Shutter Speed. Having only two things to worry about and having both on their own dial is perfect for me letting the camera deal with ISO.

But I have don't appear to have anywhere near that level on control on the RX100 as Sony in their wisdom don't allow Auto ISO in manual, but they do in A, S and P.

I stick the RX100 in shutter Priority at 1/250 and it seems obsessed with shooting at 1.8. Only way to con it into going higher is mess with the auto-iso settings and put minimum ISO at 400/800, which is no good to anyone.

In Aperture priority I can set it at f4 and it almost always leave the shutter at 1/30 when wide open and changes as you zoom sticking to focal length or a calculation thereof for handheld shooting.

P has potential, but as you twist the wheel you just hope that its possible to keep the shutter speed high and aperture around f4 as it makes a guess about ISO.

I want to love this camera and I do love the output (when i've manage to use the settings I wanted to), but I feel so out of control. I naively assumed all decent cameras these days would do Auto ISO in M?

Yes, you will say put it in manual and choose your ISO. Whilst that might be fine for a portrait or a landscape, its not good when chasing a 3 and 5 year old around having to hunt around in menus as 3 parameters don't fit onto 2 dials.

Damnit Sony, surely a firmware upgrade could fix this, but they want you to buy the mk3 instead where they've added Auto ISO in Manual.

Any thoughts, help or advice would be very much appreciated.
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Can't you use exposure compensation in apature priority with auto iso then? (assuming rx100 allows this).

However for what you want it for not sure a compact is going to be the best thing. Surely if you let it use auto ISO it will potentially have a very high ISO and hence lots of noise due to comparably small sensor?
 
StuartH said:
Have you considered the ricoh gr?
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I did have a quick for them, but info seems thin on the ground. Will have another hunt around.

leeboy22001 said:
I have both the x10 and rx100, can let you know how they compare ?
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How do you find the size difference between the X10 and RX100? Is the X10 that much different? I'm imagining the X10 is not front pocketable like the RX100?
 
mike_6480 said:
Can't you use exposure compensation in apature priority with auto iso then? (assuming rx100 allows this).

However for what you want it for not sure a compact is going to be the best thing. Surely if you let it use auto ISO it will potentially have a very high ISO and hence lots of noise due to comparably small sensor?
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I do most of my shooting outdoors with the kids, so 1/250 and f4 is hardly going to skyrocket the ISO?

The RX100 and X20 should be perfectly usable at even upto 800, maybe higher? But i'd hope I wouldn't need to go that high very often?

The shots I took the other day with the RX100 looked fine to me at ISO 400. :)
 
I have an S95 which has really done very good service, it's been mistreated carried around in all sorts of conditions and always come up trumps.

Just an idea - I still use by EP-1 and a few native M4/3 lens quite a lot as a carry around ..... it's been out for a few years now, have IS in the body and is a really attractive and tactile piece of kit.
I would think that you would be able to pick up one with the kit zoom for £100 ....... then get the Pana 20mm f1.7 and you're sorted
 
Zarch said:
I did have a quick for them, but info seems thin on the ground. Will have another hunt around.



How do you find the size difference between the X10 and RX100? Is the X10 that much different? I'm imagining the X10 is not front pocketable like the RX100?
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There's quite a size difference between the x10 and rx100, when I get a chance I'll take a photo of them side by side :-). The rx100 is front pocketable, whereas the x10 isn't.
 
hmmm
what's the d o f equivalence on the rx100? Might not be far off f4 anyways

other option is instax wide. Not small but kids will stop moving for that :)
 
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pingu666 said:
hmmm
what's the d o f equivalence on the rx100? Might not be far off f4 anyways
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Yeah maybe, but i'd still like to be in total control, which I don't feel I am in A, P or S on th RX100.

Each to their own I suppose, I just can't live with it, obviously thousands do and are delighted with their RX100. :)
 
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