Sport shooters. f2.8 or f4?

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PHILIP
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Hopefully I'll to be shooting my first football match with my 300 2.8IS at the weekend.

Now I'm not sure whether use this lens naked (lens not me :LOL:) or wether to use my 1.4xTC.

Obviously the 1.4TC makes it an f4, so will this have much of an impact on the bokeh, and player separation from the backgrounds or does the extra focal length compensate for this.

I should add that my other body will have the 70-200 2.8 on it for the closer stuff.
 
Hopefully I'll to be shooting my first football match with my 300 2.8IS at the weekend.

Now I'm not sure whether use this lens naked (lens not me :LOL:) or wether to use my 1.4xTC.

Obviously the 1.4TC makes it an f4, so will this have much of an impact on the bokeh, and player separation from the backgrounds or does the extra focal length compensate for this.

I should add that my other body will have the 70-200 2.8 on it for the closer stuff.

You've pretty much answered your own question in the bit i've highlighted blue. I used to go for the 300+1.4x for daytime games. Worked very well for me and got me plenty of shows in the papers. I only went for the 400 because I wanted to be able to get the same composed images at night as well as during the day.
 
You may at some of the smaller stadiums the 300 without the TC is ok. For daylight games I always set lens/camera to F4 anyway
 
Also it depends a bit on where you are sitting. You might want to sit at the side, and then you can cover a lot with just the 300. If you're at the end and you have enough light to get 1/1000th or so, then go with the extender as you'll also be able to get some action at the far end.

If you were on a 1DIV then you'd be OK with the extender on under even moderately decent floodlights due to the better ISO handling, but that said the new noise reduction in Lightroom for example may mean you can get away with much higher ISO than you would otherwise think.

I ended up using the 300 naked under floodlights when I was on my 1DIII.

As I've recently found, the 400 2.8 does give better background separation than the 300 with a 1.4 on, and also than the 300 on it's own (depends how far away the subject is obviously), but at the end of the day that wont make a huge difference to the "publishability" of your pics if you've got the action nailed.
 
I have my 1.4x welded to my 300mm f/2.8 right up to ISO 6400 and using Nikon full frame it gives similar seperation to a Canon 1.3x crop camera shooting at f/2.8
 
aaargh

300 dont use the tc for football.. its slows the af down.. not noticable at cricket but it does just a nano second and you dont want that at footy..

300 is perfect if you can get towards half way line.. you can fill both goal frames...
 
aaargh

300 dont use the tc for football.. its slows the af down.. not noticable at cricket but it does just a nano second and you dont want that at footy..

300 is perfect if you can get towards half way line.. you can fill both goal frames...

This was my worry with the 1.4X for football.

Also I prefer to shoot at the end of the pitch so that I get players running towards me so looks like i'll be trying the 1.4 to see how it fairs at football
 
I have my 1.4x welded to my 300mm f/2.8 right up to ISO 6400 and using Nikon full frame it gives similar seperation to a Canon 1.3x crop camera shooting at f/2.8

300mm f/2.8 with 1.3x crop offers the same framing and seperation as a 400mm f/4 on full frame. (more or less).

So on a 1DIV you could be at 300mm f/2.8, 6400 and get the same shots as the Nikon shooter with a 420mm f/4 at 12800! (or 12800 at 600mm f/5.6 and 6400, 420mm, f/4)

Essentially with the canon you get a free stop in reach/lack of TC and the extra AF speed/af sensitivity with f/2.8. But you lose the AF accuracy :naughty: and a stop of high ISO handling.

If my mathmatics skills serve me correctly. :thinking:
 
300mm f/2.8 with 1.3x crop offers the same framing and seperation as a 400mm f/4 on full frame. (more or less).

So on a 1DIV you could be at 300mm f/2.8, 6400 and get the same shots as the Nikon shooter with a 420mm f/4 at 12800! (or 12800 at 600mm f/5.6 and 6400, 420mm, f/4)

Essentially with the canon you get a free stop in reach/lack of TC and the extra AF speed/af sensitivity with f/2.8. But you lose the AF accuracy :naughty: and a stop of high ISO handling.

If my mathmatics skills serve me correctly. :thinking:

i certainly dont lose any AF accuracy or image quality with a con attached and i can always take it off and shoot f/2.8, you cant chop a lump off your 300mm and shoot f.1.8 and bear in mind the D3S is at least 1 full stop better high ISO performance and nearer 1.5 stops
 
i certainly dont lose any AF accuracy or image quality with a con attached and i can always take it off and shoot f/2.8, you cant chop a lump off your 300mm and shoot f.1.8 and bear in mind the D3S is at least 1 full stop better high ISO performance and nearer 1.5 stops

Yep, correct. I meant that with the D3s you get a a better AF system and high-ISO when I said "but you lose that AF accuracy and a stop of high ISO"; my fault for not being clear.

Although TBH I think 1.5 stops is a bit hopeful, since your working a 16.7 vs 12 mpixel image. At a 100% crop level your probably right, about one stop, possibly a tad more. Although, the difference didn't seem notable untill 1600, you could see about 2/3rds of a stop at 3200 till 5000 then a full stop at 6400 and by 12800 it's actually a bit more - at 100% crop.

Anyway, when your thinking about resizing that photo to say 4000px on the long edge to fit your print, your probably only looking at two-thirds of a stop difference since the 1DIV image has thrown away a lot of pixels to resize and thus the image is cleaner (but still not as clean as the D3s).

Say two people are shooting 600mm f/4's with a TC. So they can't get anymore reach from the lens and they still can't quite fill the frame with the action, and of course as with before it's dark. With the canon your already being pulled in 1.3x more. Say your cropping away half of the frame on the D3s to get about a 2000px (long edge) image. On the canon camera you get a 4000 odd pixel image. Compare that, then perhaps when comparing the potential in terms of reach/dark and the canon is better. Although thats one very bizarre scenario, something you would probably never come across. :wacky:



This is annyoing for us canon users though, canon are packing all these pixels, that 99% of the time we don't really need. The 1DIV has something like 2.5x denser pixels, even the 1DIII had more pixels per cm sq. (excuse the poor english). But I'd guess 90% of users would rather have the high-ISO and full-frame, than these extra pxiels that tend to be discarded anyway). :bonk:

/rant and back on topic!!!

For the record, if I was shooting the newer bodies I would prefer to shoot Nikon. But being a student, I can't afford anything newer than the 1DII and the D2's didn't really compare! Perhaps once I've got myself a proper job and hopefully earning enough from photography to live off :fingers crossed: , I'll be able to afford/justify more expensive bodies, for now I'm just investing in glass.
 
Ive owned both the MK4 (long story) and the D3's and beleive me its 1.5 stops better at high ISO and the Canon doesn't have any advantage even worth considering with the extra pixels, why give us something were not going to use, i thought i had more than enough pixels with the 10.2 million i had with the Canon mk3

Ask yourself why so many people switch to Nikon but very few if any the other way.
 
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