ST E2 vs 580EX2

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Jonathan
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Hi, this is a question on how to trigger slaves.

I know that I can trigger a 430EX with the 580EX2. However I want to experiment with either just one off-camera flash, or perhaps two.

The 580EX2 needs to be on the camera hotshoe, or at the end of an OC cord, in order to work and thus control a true off camera flash. If I were o have the 580EX2 set manually to it's lowest power (1/128 or whatever it is) whilst mounted, and pointed directly away from the subject, could it still be used to control the true off-camera flash at whatever the required power is, without influencing the exposure unduly, nor the principal direction of light?

Or is the only real way to do this via an ST-E2 which emits no light but merely acts as the controller?

I'm specifically thinking of how to get creative in rainforest situations, with flashes attached to branches via gorillapods or something similar. At home I bung the 430EX on a travel tripod, or put it on a shelf or something. I won't have that option abroad.

Thanks
Jonathan
 
Do you already have some flash guns? You could get Phottix Odin triggers with 2 receivers for less than the price of a 580 EX II. With compatible Canon flashguns it would give you wireless TTL and Manual remote power adjustment, and it wouldn't have to be line of sight.

Otherwise cheap yong nuo triggers can be used but you won't get remote power adjustment.
 
When using Canons built in wireless system you are better using a 580EX2 as the master. The ST E2 is not that great in terms of range etc. However, you have options. To start, you can set the 580 to act as a trigger but not contribute to the exposure - in the flash menu on the camera (from the 40D onwards, earlier cameras don't have a flash menu but you can still do the same from the flashes own menu) there is an option to do this.

A better option (but still cheap in comparison to the latest radio triggers) is to also get that 580 off camera - by using a long Ettl cable. I bought a 10 metre cable, I had to get one from California in the end to get a good one. There are cheap coiled versions on Ebay but you don't want these (as they will recoil and pull your flash stand over)

Using a long cable means your 580 thinks its still on the camera hotshoe so you still have full Ettl if you want it, or full manual of course if you prefer and if your camera is a 40D or newer you can control each flash from your camera menu. You can place the 580 so it's contributing to the shot (in a good way) and also controlling other flashes.

Check out Syl Arena's blog, packed full of information

You can of course buy some cheap flash triggers and fire your flashes in manual mode. This is great as you will have full control of your lighting but it will mean you have to keep running over to your flashes to adjust the power. Then just as you're happy with the flash power the batteries in the trigger will die. You replace the batteries in the trigger and then for no reason the trigger will stop working. By the time you have that sorted your model has got bored and wandered off, you've pulled all your hair out and the ambient has changed completely. I am over-exagerating of course but not by much! I just prefer to place my lights and then control them all individually from the camera.

If you've plenty of money then you could just go out and buy a few of Canons new speedlites with radio Ettl technology built in...

Ste
 
You can certainly use 580 to trigger 430, and you can switch off the firing on 580 if you don't need the fill in. The triggering is caused via IR beam as opposed to the flash light itself. The flashes (or the red sensors) need to be in a line of sight, so in rainforest this may prove tricky.
Radio triggers may be the better way outdoors.
 
If and it's a big IF, your willing to really splash out the 600 EX RT and ST-E3-RT will do everything you could ever want from a canon flash system, trouble is cost £1000 for flash and trigger, and when will it all be available (they did have the 600 EX RT at focus today)

Otherwise Ste has summed it up well.
 
Hi yes, I already own a 580II and 430I, as well as OC3.
Thanks for the advice so far. I was hoping not to spend any more money!! I might give the ST-E2 a go, if I can find a cheap one. The Phottix Odin system looks amazing, but is pretty expensive. I know not expensive really, but for what is an experiment and just a one week trip....

My other option - as I may want to photograph hummingbirds using high speed flash, might be to just get another cheap 430EX for an equivalent price to an ST-E2. I really want to have 2 speedlights off-camera for some images I have planned, so I could use the 580 (non-firing) as the master, and 2 430s as the actual flashes, and then have all 3 for the hummingbird stuff.... Oh, and about a million AAs....

Whaddaya reckon?
 
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The standard Ettl cable (OC3?) is no good as it only gives you 1.8 mtr max. In reality you'll be lucky to see 1 mtr. That just isn't far enough to make a difference in terms of flexibility and getting good line of sight connectivity with the slave whilst also getting the 580 into a good position to contribute to the exposure. You'll also end up twanging yourself with the 580 when you let go of it as the OC3 recoils.

I don't know whereabouts you are, but OCF Gear sell the cable I bought worldwide and it only took a week to arrive (well it took slightly longer than that but they didn't have stock when I ordered. I received personal email updates at every point though, really can't recommend them highly enough.) Sorry I can't post the link at the moment but google will find them. I think it worked out at £50 or thereabouts - awesome value.

If I were doing a shoot in a forest (funnily enough I have one coming soon...) I'd put my 580 on a stand connected to the Ettl cable and hide it behind, say a tree trunk. I could then put a slave opposite, again behind a tree and place my subject somewhere in between. Standing in front of the subject I will have a key and fill light, maybe even a rim light all firing via the optical wireless system, all totally controllable from my position without having to move an inch. Mucho useful.
 
I honestly think the STE2 is a joke - and yes I do have one, it's capability is massively limited when compared to that of a 580 and yet it is so expensive.

Use the 580 on camera as master and set it up as non firing. By the way, it does not use the IR beam to transmit data, that is for auto-focus. It uses the white light as the data transmitter (almost like morse code but REALLY quick, so it looks like one pre-flash). Although you see it flash it does not fire when the shutter opens.

Of course it will limit you when outdoors to having the slave looking at the camera, this is where radio triggers come in. You can also get the pocket wizards designed for Canon ETTL - pricey but very good. You pays your money and takes your choice fella!

Since you are travelling and shooting in a rain forest I suggest that a massive cable is not ideal (it would be good on lots of other shoots though). Radio triggers are small and light but may be battery intensive.

If I were you and if I had the budget I'd be looking at an additional 580EXII to act as master to fire your 430 and existing 580. Alternatively use your existing 580 II and get an extra 430 - cheaper and lighter.
 
The cable I have has Canon's weather proofing built in and is extremely robust, which is why I recommend it. At £50 ish it's a lot cheaper than buying more speedlites, or top level triggers. If money isn't the issue then yeah, go with Ettl triggers or even better the new Canon speedlites. 'Normal' radio triggers are great apart from the running up and down faffing with the speedlites, if you don't mind this though then they would also be ideal. I'm very lazy it seems and like to make things as easy as possible.

Setting speedlites manually is the best way to learn about flash, without doubt. I assumed for some reason that the OP was shooting people in a forest but it now sounds like wildlife? In this case I would definitely recommend Ettl as flash to subject distance is going to be out of the OP's control (when shooting birdies for instance) and Ettl is just going to get it more or less right first time.
 
Yes, wildlife, probably amphibians and insects with the complex set up I am thinking about above, but also birds with fill from on-camera flash with a better beamer.
Thanks
 
Ah well I'm not sure you'll need a complicated or even simple wireless flash system for amphibians or insects? Surely what you need for those is a macro lighting rig of some description?

Birdies yes, I can understand the need for wireless remote flash.
 
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