Beginner Starting out with Cameras .. (Canon)

Phil V said:
Hi @Notepad12 and welcome to TP.

You've already moved your goalposts significantly since your opening post, and I'm pleased that you've already realised you'll get a lot more bang for your buck in the S/H market.

In your shoes; I'd keep my powder dry for a while and head to the Photography show in Birmingham in a week or so. There you'll be able to see the different brands (and formats), have a play and compare the look and feel of the leading brands, don't fall for the marketing hype though.

Take cash for your lunch and leave your cards at home though - it's too easy to get tempted by shiny things.

Of the stuff you've looked at, the 5dIII is an absolute bargain atm, but that should also show you that DSLR's are the past and mirrorless is the future (that camera was £3k new). However, I don't see anything in your intended use that makes me think you should be thinking of FF. APSC and even M43 cameras are perfectly capable of capturing great images, and lighter on the shoulders and bank balance.
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Thank you for your reply.

I've moved my goal posts yes, because there's simply so much range and many options to look into/at it becomes overwhelming.

The 5diii seems like a solid choice for sure.

Would you say the Canon EF 24-105mm f/4L IS II USM lens is a good all rounder? (Family pictures, not so far away wild life etc)

I'd be looking at the 100-400 for longer range wild life of course
 
Not certain I would enjoy family walks etc with the 5Diii and the 24-105.
It is very big in comparison.

Here is a (very poor) photo of the 5Diii with a 24-104, next to a G9 with a 12-60 (24-120 eq).
The lens between them is the 14-140 (28-280 eq)

the weight of the 5Diii + lens is 1740g and the G9 + lens 916g (and the G9 is not a small light camera as M43 go)

In a way, your trying to choose a camera that you will still be happy with in a years time is a bit like choosing the lotto numbers, as you don't really have a reference point.
Very hard to suggest something that will be right d5g9.jpg:)
 
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If you want to future proof don't think of buying an obsolete model.

There, in one sentence.

The 5D MK3 is 12 years old from release date.
 
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Phil has made a good point. I have a full frame camera and lenses but the camera I most often use is my crop APS-C DSLR 77D due to the weight and size of the kit. Whilst there is plenty of good meaningful advice here every photographer is different and your needs and wants will change over time. Pick a camera setup that feels comfortable in your hand and that you are happy to lug around as you can’t capture images if you don’t take your gear out. Start second hand with some basic gear so you are learning the principles of photography and not inundated with settings and tech of modern cameras. Once you get more knowledgeable you can then upgrade to what you actually want. Most photographers here probably didn’t start with the latest and greatest.
 
Sangoma said:
Not certain I would enjoy family walks etc with the 5Diii and the 24-105.
It is very big in comparison.

Here is a (very poor) photo of the 5Diii with a 24-104, next to a G9 with a 12-60 (24-120 eq).
The lens between them is the 14-140 (28-280 eq)

the weight of the 5Diii + lens is 1740g and the G9 + lens 916g (and the G9 is not a small light camera as M43 go)

In a way, your trying to choose a camera that you will still be happy with in a years time is a bit like choosing the lotto numbers, as you don't really have a reference point.
Very hard to suggest something that will be right View attachment 416702:)
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Forgot the photo :(
 
Notepad12 said:
Thank you for your reply.

I've moved my goal posts yes, because there's simply so much range and many options to look into/at it becomes overwhelming.

The 5diii seems like a solid choice for sure.

Would you say the Canon EF 24-105mm f/4L IS II USM lens is a good all rounder? (Family pictures, not so far away wild life etc)

I'd be looking at the 100-400 for longer range wild life of course
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The 5dIII is a solid* camera, in fact following your post and seeing the s/h prices I very nearly thought of adding one (I won’t be, I have no need).
Also the 24-105 is a solid* choice.

But whether I’d choose those over something smaller and lighter if starting from scratch is a different question entirely.

You're completely new to this, so you've no idea what it means to cart about a heavy camera and lens to every single family event / day out. No idea what it feels like when the wife's eyes visibly roll when you start putting together your camera bag for a walk to the park - and again, every time you leave the family at the park cos you've seen 'something interesting'.

Neither me nor anyone else can advise you what camera you should buy! that's your decision, and trying to reinforce your feelings by gaining the affirmation of internet strangers is a fools errand.

Go to the photography show, stick a 24-105 on a 5dIV (no real size or weight difference), then compare it to an R7 or R10 with a decent standard zoom, then an 80d.

Then go to the Fuji stand, and try an equivalent kit, then again at Olympus.

I'm awaiting delivery of an RF24-70L, but the difference here is that I spent 20 years with my weekends full of a dual harness and superfast primes and fast zooms, In my world the R6 and 24-70 is a respite. But I appreciate it doesn't have to be this way.

*solid choice = camera and lens come in at a little over 1.7kg - imagine carrying a bag of sugar round your neck, with another 3/4 bag hanging off the front of it.
 
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I'm not trying to put you off - I'm trying to get you to make an 'informed choice'.

Photography forums are littered with horror stories of people buying things based off 'spec sheets' and reviews.
 
I did the full frame thing (Canon 5D mk2 & 70-200 f2.8 etc.) and it was bloody heavy. Many other cameras too.

I now use Olympus and it's all much lighter.

The quality's good enough for me.

The trick is to expose correctly in good light.

Then most cameras' images look good.
 
Sangoma said:
In a way, your trying to choose a camera that you will still be happy with in a years time is a bit like choosing the lotto numbers, as you don't really have a reference point.
Very hard to suggest something that will be right
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This^
It'd be pretty much impossible to buy a bad camera, but a complete crap shoot to find the 'right' one.
 
Phil V said:
....

Then go to the Fuji stand, and try an equivalent kit, then again at Olympus.

...
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And don't forget to try Nikon and Sony.

One word of warning, there are a lot of options, and it will be tempting to get into a "but for just another £200 I could get..." loop, which has you wanting to double your budget very quickly! :LOL:
 
All modern cameras are good but get better lenses. Mid range or pro spec if you can.
Many brands have a try before you buy scheme, try a couple.
Canon UK also have a good live chat service if you need clarification on anything.
Lastly TPS is next week at the NEC. why not visit
 
Faldrax said:
And don't forget to try Nikon and Sony.

One word of warning, there are a lot of options, and it will be tempting to get into a "but for just another £200 I could get..." loop, which has you wanting to double your budget very quickly! :LOL:
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That's the loop I really nearly ended up going down to be honest.

I started off looking at R50's and R10's then quickly went off down the R7/8 road with that thought process.

A good second hand R10 is about £750.
 
ilikebowens said:
All modern cameras are good but get better lenses. Mid range or pro spec if you can.
Many brands have a try before you buy scheme, try a couple.
Canon UK also have a good live chat service if you need clarification on anything.
Lastly TPS is next week at the NEC. why not visit
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Thanks for the reply.

It's hard to me to at, short notice, be able to swing a 7 hour round trip to Birmingham unfortunately.

I'm trying to find a camera shop here in the south west that I could visit
 
Notepad12 said:
Thanks for the reply.

It's hard to me to at, short notice, be able to swing a 7 hour round trip to Birmingham unfortunately.

I'm trying to find a camera shop here in the south west that I could visit
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Don’t think of it as a 7hr round trip but as a long day out. I appreciate this isn’t always easy with a young family, but even when there were decent high st camera shops, the photography show was worth the effort.

You’d be really lucky to find a camera shop with decent stock of all the major brands nowadays.
 
Notepad12 said:
Thanks for the reply.

It's hard to me to at, short notice, be able to swing a 7 hour round trip to Birmingham unfortunately.

I'm trying to find a camera shop here in the south west that I could visit
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LCE (London Camera Exchange) have a few branches dotted around, Mifsuds (Brixham) always used to have plenty of second hand stock.
 
Phil V said:
Don’t think of it as a 7hr round trip but as a long day out. I appreciate this isn’t always easy with a young family, but even when there were decent high st camera shops, the photography show was worth the effort.

You’d be really lucky to find a camera shop with decent stock of all the major brands nowadays.
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Thank you for the reply.

I've been having a look into Park Cameras and they seem to have a reasonable shop in Sussex I could visit, if you have any experience with them?
 
Notepad12 said:
Thank you for the reply.

I've been having a look into Park Cameras and they seem to have a reasonable shop in Sussex I could visit, if you have any experience with them?
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Ive only used them mail order but have had to ring them a couple of times (couldnt get the web site to take my order prob just me and once when I had a question about one of their listings) I found them very helpful on both occasions and the items have all been as listed or better I cant fault them.
 
Notepad12 said:
Thank you for the reply.

I've been having a look into Park Cameras and they seem to have a reasonable shop in Sussex I could visit, if you have any experience with them?
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Used them mail order years ago.
I think they have a decent reputation.

Sussex though? I thought you were in the south west?
 
I've bought mail order and sold to Park cameras. Always seemed as honest and tbey had good email comms, or as good as I've had with any store and I would happily recommend them. However keep your budget in mind as all sales people will try and upsell :)
 
Park Cameras have been going a long time.

Burgess Hill if memory serves.

I come from Horsham, West Sussex so used to visit there regularly.

Good company, at least back in the 90's it was.
 
Phil V said:
Used them mail order years ago.
I think they have a decent reputation.

Sussex though? I thought you were in the south west?
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Correct, South West.

I have family in Sussex though when I next see them I could pop into Parks Cameras.
 
I'm going to make myself unpopular :)

I don't think a 5Diii is the right thing to start with.
You will need a 600mm lens for wildlife to match my suggestion.
It offers little advantage in limited areas, and my suggestion offers many other advantages.
It is an older camera, with less of the new features that are useful.
The cost of buying equivalent features is much more.

Your needs are very similar to mine, nothing specific and a bit of everything :)

My suggestion, and one I think you would be happy with (of course there are other makes and suggestions, I can only suggest what I have owned.

plist.jpg

Have a look at the reviews and youtube videos

That will give you 24-600 mm, with 24-120 as an everyday lens, the 45-150 (90-300 eq on the 5Diii) is a hidden gem, and the firmware can be upgraded to give dual IS, which is a great feature.

No doubt others can suggest other makes, point is, I have an idea the Canon FF path isn't going to have the intended ending.
 
The above.

You are picking Canon based on your Dad's experience. Things have moved on. For what you want to do the outfit above makes more sense.
 
Sangoma said:
I'm going to make myself unpopular :)

I don't think a 5Diii is the right thing to start with.
You will need a 600mm lens for wildlife to match my suggestion.
It offers little advantage in limited areas, and my suggestion offers many other advantages.
It is an older camera, with less of the new features that are useful.
The cost of buying equivalent features is much more.

Your needs are very similar to mine, nothing specific and a bit of everything :)

My suggestion, and one I think you would be happy with (of course there are other makes and suggestions, I can only suggest what I have owned.

View attachment 416726

Have a look at the reviews and youtube videos

That will give you 24-600 mm, with 24-120 as an everyday lens, the 45-150 (90-300 eq on the 5Diii) is a hidden gem, and the firmware can be upgraded to give dual IS, which is a great feature.

No doubt others can suggest other makes, point is, I have an idea the Canon FF path isn't going to have the intended ending.
Click to expand...

Where is that 12-60mm listed? I might have that.
 
The Canon 5D and 24-105f4 is a good combination, it was my go-to for years, albeit the mk1 versions of both body and lens, but I found I was taking it out less and less due to the bulk/weight. Switching to a smaller system re-invigorated my photography.

My recommendation is still to make use of the various manufacturer test drives:
Canon - https://www.canon.co.uk/testdrive/
Fuji - https://www.fujifilm-loan.com/
 
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