Stay with Adobe or break the ties and move on?

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2,866
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Steve
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#1
So, my subscription to the Adobe photography package is coming to an end at the end of March and I have been considering the alternatives. I'm quite happy with LR Classic and PS but there are many features and functions on both that I have never used and I'm not complaining about the monthly charge but, like insurances, it doesn't hurt to shop around occasionally :)

Recently I started a 30 day trial with DxO and I have found that I can easily get images processed using that package to look just like ones done in LR. At the same time I have gone back to Capture Nx-D (I used to use it way back in the mists of time) and find I can get acceptable results with that too. What neither of those packages have, of course, is DRM and I have rather a large LR catalogue - actually that's several catalogues which if combined would be in excess of 250,000 images.

What do people use for DRM?
 
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2,033
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Tommy
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#2
I haven't come across anything that I would be happy to use in preference to Photoshop & Lightroom. It might be worth your while keeping an eye on Amazon they often have offers on the 12 months sub for Adobe. You can just buy the 12 months sub and add it to your current sub.
 
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Richard
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#3
I just went online on Adobe and went through the automated menu and said I wanted to leave (i have a few months left of my contract) and they gave me 2 months free. Might be worth a try to give you more time deciding?
 
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#4
Have you thought about Affinity Photo? I used it a while back and whilst it's certainly not a substitute for Lightroom I found it was for Photoshop.
 
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2,697
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Richard
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#5
I haven't come across anything that I would be happy to use in preference to Photoshop & Lightroom. It might be worth your while keeping an eye on Amazon they often have offers on the 12 months sub for Adobe. You can just buy the 12 months sub and add it to your current sub.
I got 12 month's subscription for £75 on Amazon a couple of days before black Friday. I'm sure if you shop around you could find a good deal on a year's subscription. The only alternative I've tried is ACDSee and I found it fairly crude compared to Lightroom. I barely ever use PS but it's nice to know I have it. I've made my own logo using PS and also built the table plan for my wedding last year using it, my subscription has already paid for itself
 
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Bristolian
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2,866
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Steve
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#7
Hi folks,

Thanks for the comments/suggestions so far - I have some more reseach to do :)

I might try the ploy of telling Adobe I'm leaving to get a couple of months thinking space - thanks for that keef32 :)

TBH, it's only the cataloguing that kept me with Adobe last year and I was kinda hopig something similar might have surfaced in the last 12 months. If I can't find anything then I guess I will stay put. Any comments about Bridge?
 
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Steve
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#8
Why not get the standalone version of Lightroom?

I find that plus photoshop elements does everything I need.

Mind you I have never got into pixel level fiddling!
 
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10,999
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Toni
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#9
I've been using Lightroom 5 since 2014, but with a new camera coming I've just upgraded to the latest version of On1 Photoraw, and will probably try the migration tool to move my LR edits across (the idea is that interprets the LR mask on the raw file into adjustable changes using On1 settings so that your images *should* look the same and can be edited too.

@Bristolian On1 Photoraw also has DRM built in with keywording, metadata, stars etc, and transfers all those across from LR.
 
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Jak
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#10
I use Affinity, works for me, a very competent piece of software (y)
 
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1,690
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David
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#11
10+ years with LR from the outset, recently switched to Capture One pro.

I'm missing the all encompassing workflow - Mac / iPad etc via the Smart preview Sync (used classic via subscription but network bandwidth not sufficient for the full CC cloud approach), but I'd adapting to C1. Overall I like the capabilities of C1 - the layers are very useful and allow you to keep even more of the edits into the once system, but I also have Affinity if I do need to do any pixel editing (very rare).

Quality wise, I've convinced myself that C1 does a better job with Fuji X Trans, but as I've just switched to Sony, so not a lot of use! Although I can obviously still play with my 5 years of Fuji images on a wet and dismal day :)

One thing I did find irritating in switching is my 10 years of edits across 10,000's of images has kind of been 'stolen' away from me. Sure I can go into LR and export, but I can no longer adjust, which I understand, but by that time I'd spent around £800 on LR alone (£100 initial, plus 4 upgrades of circa £50 through to V5, and then approx £100/yr on Subscriptions from 6 onwards), I did feel 'cheated' even though I know rationally I knew the deal from the get-go, well from V6 onwards.

I've gone for a perpetual version of C1, and will decide as and when I upgrade knowing (within reason) that I can always go back and edit if I want (assuming the OS still supports the app of course!).

The LR / Mobile workflow is the standout feature I miss though.
 
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1,563
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Brian
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#13
Just because something is the most widely used doesn't mean it's the best, just that the product marketing team have done a good job.

There are many products on the market that can do a better job than Adobe, and most of them are available as a free evaluation.
It seems a lot of people are not willing/too lazy to "unlearn" Adobe, and adapt to a new method of working, but they are missing out.
A lot of the Adobe alternatives have very similar functions, for example the operation of the adjustment sliders and using the bracket keys to change brush sizes, so there is not that much of a "learning curve" when changing to another program.
 
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1,563
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Brian
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#14
Stopped with P/S CS6 when they started the sudscription side of things but still use L/R 6 along side On1 Photo RAW 2019, tried Affinity Photo but they have very little in options to use third party plug-ins (List of working full and part working plug-ins http://www.miguelboto.com/affinity/photo/plugins-support/win/) Happy with On1, it's fast and once you get into it easy to use. Russ.
I'm using On1 and Affinity Photo and I have no problems using NIK and Topaz plug-ins with either of them.
I wonder what plug-ins you are having problems with?

You may think On1 is fast, but the "Export" function can be glacially slow.
My only complaint about the program.
 
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2,040
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Russell
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#15
I'm using On1 and Affinity Photo and I have no problems using NIK and Topaz plug-ins with either of them.
I wonder what plug-ins you are having problems with?

You may think On1 is fast, but the "Export" function can be glacially slow.
My only complaint about the program.
Use DXO Viewpoint, Topaz ReMask and also use Qimage to print, when I asked about having an option to export from Affinity to Qimage I was asked to get the developer of Qimage to contact Affinity and he did but they never came back to him also use Xrite to colour correct images with there colorchecker and again asked Affifinity as at the time there was an offer of buying the colorchecker with Affinity as a free software but still at square one.
 
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2,866
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Steve
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#16
Many thanks for the suggestions so far - it looks like I will have to give a few more packages a try :)
 
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#17
I've been learning Capture One and now find I'm pretty much moved over from Aperture. It was daunting to start with, but I stuck at it. I do use DXO too, for when I want more tweaking, and I got a 50% off offer for Affinity at The Photography Show last year. That all replaces Adobe as far as I am concerned.

I think the point Brian G makes is important - Adobe have created a position of dominance, and now are milking it. It's to do with mature software - you can't keep on adding things as they become less useful to users. What I dislike about the subscription model is that I cannot pick and choose which apps I want (I use InDesign, Acrobat and Illustrator too) so it would be very expensive, and if I stop paying, I have a problem accessing my files.
 
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1,563
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Brian
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#18
Use DXO Viewpoint, Topaz ReMask and also use Qimage to print, when I asked about having an option to export from Affinity to Qimage I was asked to get the developer of Qimage to contact Affinity and he did but they never came back to him also use Xrite to colour correct images with there colorchecker and again asked Affifinity as at the time there was an offer of buying the colorchecker with Affinity as a free software but still at square one.
OK. I don't use any of those programs so that explains the difference.
I thought Qimage was a stand-alone rather than a plug-in?
I used to use Qimage, but these days I have my printing done at a lab.

I agree with Pound Coin about Adobe. Since they went subscription how many worthwhile features have been added to Photoshop? They've simply run out of ideas and certainly cannot produce anything that warrants a new version upgrade, so all they can do to keep income flowing is is the rental version. Because I rarely use Photoshop the hire version represents very poor value for me, plus I prefer the results I'm getting from On1 to those from Lightroom - and no catalog to worry about either.
 
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#20
I've been long time Photoshop user (right from Version 1) and used to upgrade for nearly every new version but I bailed when it came to paying a subscription for something they are not really improving. I've stuck with my old Photoshop, but needed something to process the RAW files.
I now use Luminar and the latest version, just released, adds a more logical workflow with libraries.
Yes there are a bunch of gimmicky pre-sets but I actually fin saving the controls I want into a workspace means I can sort and edit quickly and efficiently.
Plus it's a one off payment, I even got the new version for free, no more subscriptions!

Occasionally I'll still open an exported file in my old Photoshop for a bit of retouching, but only because I know the tools so well.
What the developer says:
https://skylum.com/blog/seven-reasons-to-switch-to-luminar-3-from-lightroom-right-now
More impartial review:
https://www.naturettl.com/luminar-3-review/
 
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10,999
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Toni
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#21
Upgraded to On1 PhotoRaw 2019 a couple of days ago, since LR5 isn't going to be compatible with the incoming Sony A7III. It all seems that bit quicker, more professional than 2018, and image presentation seems much cleaner and more detailed than it did. :)
 
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Jason
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#22
Just moved from LR to ON1 Raw 2019, still early days edited my first lot of images yesterday, so far so good. Slightly different mindset to using LR but all the same happy with my decision so far.
 
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Bristolian
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2,866
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Steve
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#23
Hi folks, sorry I haven't been in here for a few days - work will be the death of me :)

So far I have had a play with DxO and like the results I get but it doesn't have any DAM. I have been using On1 PhotoRAW 2019 for a few days and think I may have found what I'm looking for. It took a long time to import my LR catalogue but that was tyo be expected. One small aspect that I wasn't expecting, but which I understand the reason behind, is that whilst the image in On1 includes the edits carried out in LR (i.e. the images look the same) the editing sliders in On1 are all in their neutral positions so I can't see what changes were made in LR.

ACDSee is next to be tried out :)
 
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1,563
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Brian
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#24
Hi folks, sorry I haven't been in here for a few days - work will be the death of me :)

So far I have had a play with DxO and like the results I get but it doesn't have any DAM. I have been using On1 PhotoRAW 2019 for a few days and think I may have found what I'm looking for. It took a long time to import my LR catalogue but that was tyo be expected. One small aspect that I wasn't expecting, but which I understand the reason behind, is that whilst the image in On1 includes the edits carried out in LR (i.e. the images look the same) the editing sliders in On1 are all in their neutral positions so I can't see what changes were made in LR.

ACDSee is next to be tried out :)
Are you sure you are seeing the processed raw file?
I thought the export from Lightroom was a processed TIFF of the LR image?
 
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2,866
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Steve
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#26
Are you sure you are seeing the processed raw file?
I thought the export from Lightroom was a processed TIFF of the LR image?
As far as I can see I am viewing the NEF file. On1 creates a sidecar file (.on1) which can be viewed in a text editor but appears to be gibberish so is probably encoded somehow.
 
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10,999
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Toni
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#27
As far as I can see I am viewing the NEF file. On1 creates a sidecar file (.on1) which can be viewed in a text editor but appears to be gibberish so is probably encoded somehow.
AFAIK that's correct - On1PR creates a set of masks based on it's own software to recreate the processing you originally performed on the raw file in LR Unfortunate that the sliders aren't moved for the processed file though.
 
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28
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Ham
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#28
My Adobe experience might be of some use to people. I phoned up and had a right ol' moan at them about the subscription model and said I was going to cancel, they gave me six months free with no obligation to continue at the end. As it happens, I was likely always going to stick with LR/Photoshop until such time as I retire, but at least I'm £50 better off now.
 
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1,563
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Brian
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#29
My Adobe experience might be of some use to people. I phoned up and had a right ol' moan at them about the subscription model and said I was going to cancel, they gave me six months free with no obligation to continue at the end. As it happens, I was likely always going to stick with LR/Photoshop until such time as I retire, but at least I'm £50 better off now.
So all you've done is put off the decision for six months - what happens after that? You've either got to carry on paying the rate you complained about, or decide to switch to an alternative? The Adobe hire charge has already increased from the starting rate so who's to say what it will be in the future?
 
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1,367
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D
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#30
@zendog standalone is now very hard to find. im in that position myself, posted about it yesterday. Currys messed it up and im not convinced it will ever work thru them, no longer on Adobe, silly price on amazon. I have ordered from ebay but theres a 3 week lead time and i'm not 100% convinced that won't end up falling thru. I procrastinated too long :-( - l use an old version of PS but if i were forced to get something newer, i think i would go with Elements too - I was using same old version of photoshop at work but it failed some sort of security testing so i wasn't allowed to keep it. we dont have the budgets for subscriptions so i now have elements and i can't see me needed more than that in terms of capability for work and home.
 
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Ham
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#31
So all you've done is put off the decision for six months - what happens after that? You've either got to carry on paying the rate you complained about, or decide to switch to an alternative? The Adobe hire charge has already increased from the starting rate so who's to say what it will be in the future?
It's not so much the rate I was complaining about as the principle. While I might not like it, I actually have no problem paying for software, what I don't like is being forced to pay for upgrade when the supplier thinks I should rather than when I want to. eg, my acrobat pro is now - 10? - years old and I have no interest or value upgrading. On the other hand, £300 over 3 years isn't actually that bad in the context of what I might have previously expected to hand over to Adobe - looking back I've upgraded every 3-4 years. People pay an awful lot more for eg TV/Netflix subs so while I can afford it, I'll carry on buying and using (LR + Photoshop). The years of familiarity and ease of doing what I want to do is worth quite a lot to me.

Getting a few months for free is still worth having.
 
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1,563
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Brian
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#32
It's not so much the rate I was complaining about as the principle. While I might not like it, I actually have no problem paying for software, what I don't like is being forced to pay for upgrade when the supplier thinks I should rather than when I want to. eg, my acrobat pro is now - 10? - years old and I have no interest or value upgrading. On the other hand, £300 over 3 years isn't actually that bad in the context of what I might have previously expected to hand over to Adobe - looking back I've upgraded every 3-4 years. People pay an awful lot more for eg TV/Netflix subs so while I can afford it, I'll carry on buying and using (LR + Photoshop). The years of familiarity and ease of doing what I want to do is worth quite a lot to me.

Getting a few months for free is still worth having.
Fair enough, and I agree with what you say.
Apologies if I mistook what you were implying.
I prefer to know the cost of what I'm buying, which is why I prefer outright purchase to rental.
The thing I like least about the hired software is unpredictable long-term cost.
As I said, Adobe CC has already increased in cost since it was introduced and there's no knowing where the pricing will be in a few years time.
As for familiarity of use, I think that's just a lazy persons excuse for sticking with what they have.
Most of the Adobe alternatives seem to have been designed with a familiar interface, so the learning curve is not as bad as people make out.
Personally, I prefer the results from my chosen software over Adobe, and it's no more difficult to use.
 
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5,061
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Robin
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#35
I've been learning Capture One and now find I'm pretty much moved over from Aperture. It was daunting to start with, but I stuck at it. I do use DXO too, for when I want more tweaking, and I got a 50% off offer for Affinity at The Photography Show last year. That all replaces Adobe as far as I am concerned.

I think the point Brian G makes is important - Adobe have created a position of dominance, and now are milking it. It's to do with mature software - you can't keep on adding things as they become less useful to users. What I dislike about the subscription model is that I cannot pick and choose which apps I want (I use InDesign, Acrobat and Illustrator too) so it would be very expensive, and if I stop paying, I have a problem accessing my files.
.... I moved to Capture One (then version 8) after Apple stopped supporting Aperture. I like it a lot and it has developed. But I like to use Photoshop CS6 third-party plug-ins which are easily accessible directly from Capture One by editing in Photoshop as a host TIFF file which is then returned to Capture One ready to Export.

But, like you, I have a lot of InDesign CS files and now I have recently moved to a Mac Mini I cannot use CS6 any longer and as I am no longer in business I don't like the high subscription costs. So, I have to look at alternatives. I already have ON1 RAW 2019 which I only use for finishing effects sometimes but much prefer Capture One for RAW conversion and adjustments.
 
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#36
I’ve tested rye beta on Affinity’s dtp application, but not in anger. Eventually the only problem I’ll have is dealing with indesign files and editing pdf files, which should be stragihtforward.
 
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8,334
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Steve
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#37
My subscription to CC comes to end next month and I have been looking at alternatives.

ACDSEE looked interesting but the mac version is not as well specced as the pc version.
Wasn't happy with the way ON1 rendered my raw files compared to Lightroom
Capture one is far too expensive for me as a hobbyist photographer.
Have a trial for Luminar 3 and DxO at the moment, DxO looks the more professional option, so far Luminar looks a little too gimmicky. But thats based on limited experience which might change with use.
 
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10,999
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Toni
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#38
I've long liked On1 hotoraw as evidenced in this thread, and with the arrival of my A7III I bought the upgrade to the latest version with a view to it becoming my main editor & DRM package because LR5 was not compatible with the A7 files.

Having spent a little time now, I'm not so happy with the results, and so far have preferred images processed through Adobe camera raw and then into Lightroom over the results in O1PR. I will probably take another look at the sony version of capture 1, as well as spending more time becomng familiar with O1PR.
 
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Bristolian
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2,866
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Steve
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#39
This has been an ineteresting thread :)

Yesterday I went on the Adobe web site and cancelled my subscription as I didn't want to leave it too late. They immediately offered a free 2 month extension, which I have taken. I'm still in two (or maybe three minds) over whether to stay with Adobe or move on. Having tried all of the packages mentioned here I am favouring On1 PhotoRaw 2019 as the most comlete alternative to LR and PS. I really can't get on with ACDSee for some reason and that may just be a case of not being abe to teach an old dog (who said that?) new tricks. I will continue to try it though.

Since the weekend I have also been playing with Capture NX-D which Nikon ship with all their cameras. As a RAW file editor it does everything you expect of it but in slightly different ways to the more popular/common packages. The results are, though, very pleasing as you might expect from a piece of software that is able to interpret the RAW data correctly. As I already use the other Nikon freebies (View-NXD and Transfer) to get my images from the memory card onto the computer and then to do the initial cull maybe going with Capture NX-D wouldn't be such a bad thing.

Trials are continuing :)
 
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