Stolen images

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41
Name
David Locke
Edit My Images
Yes
I recently went to a local well known chain restaurant. I sat down and noticed one of my photos on the wall although the sky had been edited. I had a look round the restaurant afterwards to find another 2 of my photos hung on the wall. I believe they took the photos from my flickr account, the licensing is set to attribution creative commons. They didn't ask my permission and there is no credibility

What are my options please? If any...
 
Looking at the licencing you've got set up on flickr the only thing you can do is complain about no being credited for the work...

Tell me why have you made the choice to put your work under the creative commons/licencing that you've done?
 
It should be added the pedants on here will say they've not been stolen which is true you'd normally have been a victim of copyright infringement, but ass you've virtually waived your copyright with the type of licencing you've selected I'm not so sure that I've go as far as to say this was a infringement :(
 
Definitely get your licencing changed on flickr, won't stop people nicking your shots but gives you more comeback.

There's a massive infringement though surely if they've edited one of your shots? I didn't think that creative commons allows that?
 
Donnie said:
Definitely get your licencing changed on flickr, won't stop people nicking your shots but gives you more comeback.

There's a massive infringement though surely if they've edited one of your shots? I didn't think that creative commons allows that?

His does if you click on the terms it seems to all anything so long as its credited :(
 
Are you quite sure that the offending photos haven't been taken from the same location at a different time hence the different skies. You cannot copyright a view
 
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Yeah I kinda messed up with that. I don't use flickr anymore really, and when I did, I didn't have a clue what each of the licensing meant so I just clicked on any. (stupid I know)

As for the photo with the sky being edited, yes it's definately my photo as it's in HDR and the leaves on the trees are the same.

I'll still email the company, they might send me some food vouchers haha.

Live and learn

Thanks
 
I recently went to a local well known chain restaurant. I sat down and noticed one of my photos on the wall although the sky had been edited. I had a look round the restaurant afterwards to find another 2 of my photos hung on the wall. I believe they took the photos from my flickr account, the licensing is set to attribution creative commons. They didn't ask my permission and there is no credibility

What are my options please? If any...

Next time you're planning to go into the restaurant take a nice big permanent marker with you and just sign the pictures :LOL:

Only kidding really :D
 
Next time you're planning to go into the restaurant take a nice big permanent marker with you and just sign the pictures :LOL:

Only kidding really :D

haha.... they look quite good on canvas... I did joke about unhooking the photos and walking out with them
 
Does a CC licence cover UK copyright which is very different than US copyright?
 
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Does a CC licence cover UK copyright which is very different than US copyright?

I wouldn't have a clue, maybe that is something you'd like to look into, but in this instance it doesn't make all that much difference...in that the OP has put up his own copyright terms by selecting this licence :shrug: that's the licencing arrangement he has selected maybe mistankly in not understanding the implications of his selection but that is history, he can change them now to something more secure but that will not make a difference to previous uses of the image under the terms that the image was governed by at the time of use...
 
Definitely get your licencing changed on flickr, won't stop people nicking your shots but gives you more comeback.

There's a massive infringement though surely if they've edited one of your shots? I didn't think that creative commons allows that?

Only if you've chosen the No Derivatives option on the licence.

Changing the licence won't help, they obtained it under a CC licence which you can't remove.
 
I wouldn't have a clue, maybe that is something you'd like to look into, but in this instance it doesn't make all that much difference...in that the OP has put up his own copyright terms by selecting this licence :shrug: that's the licencing arrangement he has selected maybe mistankly in not understanding the implications of his selection but that is history, he can change them now to something more secure but that will not make a difference to previous uses of the image under the terms that the image was governed by at the time of use...

So if that link to the 'very brief' license is to be taken as true then the cafe owner has broken the contract and therefore the images should be removed from display and/or compensation sought under our normal UK copyright laws.
 
tiler65 said:
So if that link to the 'very brief' license is to be taken as true then the cafe owner has broken the contract and therefore the images should be removed from display and/or compensation sought under our normal UK copyright laws.

No the cafe owner needs to display a credit, though I'd also be willing to bet the cafe own has brought the images from someone/somewhere :cautious: which could also raise an interesting question on liability
 
No the cafe owner needs to display a credit, though I'd also be willing to bet the cafe own has brought the images from someone/somewhere :cautious: which could also raise an interesting question on liability

but if he doesn't display a credit then the license is broken.
 
Also this............

Creative Commons
Creative Commons allows you distribute your work a the manor you specify. Most photo sites such as Flickr and Deviant Art allow you to choose a Creative Commons license or tag when you upload your images.
Every photo we use on Phototuts+ has to either have a Creative Commons license or the permission of the original photographer, making our weekly round-ups more challenging than you might think!
The Creative Commons license’s is just an idea, its not backed by any laws and has only been created to help artists/developers share their work. As long as you respect other people licenses and they respect yours the system works perfectly and is well worth using yourself.
There are currently six types of licenses you can choose from:


So Creative Commons is not officially backed by any law.
 
tiler65 said:
but if he doesn't display a credit then the license is broken.

tiler65 said:
Also this............

Creative Commons
Creative Commons allows you distribute your work a the manor you specify. Most photo sites such as Flickr and Deviant Art allow you to choose a Creative Commons license or tag when you upload your images.
Every photo we use on Phototuts+ has to either have a Creative Commons license or the permission of the original photographer, making our weekly round-ups more challenging than you might think!
The Creative Commons license’s is just an idea, its not backed by any laws and has only been created to help artists/developers share their work. As long as you respect other people licenses and they respect yours the system works perfectly and is well worth using yourself.
There are currently six types of licenses you can choose from:

So Creative Commons is not officially backed by any law.

Tom seriously how many contract/agreements are backed by law???? Very few I'd suggest, so long as a contract doesn't break the law then that's all the matters, where did you get that from anyway as it looks like it relates to "Phototuts+" rather than Flickr
 
Matt, I think you are missing the point.
 
I thing you are too Tom but I've got better things to do right now so I'll leave it there for now

eh? The cafe owner has broken the so called contract by NOT displaying a credit....what don't you understand about that?

(that is, if said contract is a legal license anyway)
 
eh? The cafe owner has broken the so called contract by NOT displaying a credit....what don't you understand about that?

(that is, if said contract is a legal license anyway)

I don't think he has, unless the café owner created the derivitive work.
It's the responsibility of whoever's just hoovered flickr for free images to pump into Photoshop to ensure the OP is credited.. he probably is, on a tiny bot of text on a site somewhere.
 
I don't think he has, unless the café owner created the derivitive work.
It's the responsibility of whoever's just hoovered flickr for free images to pump into Photoshop to ensure the OP is credited.. he probably is, on a tiny bot of text on a site somewhere.

The original piece would still need to be credited.
 
I have to admit I've never clicked a creative commons licence not becasue I did any research on that licence but because I checked to see which one gives me and only me complete control, by default I wasn't interested in anything that would have the potential to give my work away. Simple.

I do feel for the OP, it would at least be nice to get some credit on the pictures, at least then there's the chance he could have a website with other images which he could then licence for a fee.

At the very least the op needs to sort his licencing for the future.
 
take it as a compliment, and just ask if you can be credited instead.

and change the terms on your flickr in case it happens again :D

+1.

If the restaurant agrees to credit you then it might generate something in the future.
 
+1.

If the restaurant agrees to credit you then it might generate something in the future.

so try going into the coffee shop, order a cuppa and leave without paying but say that you will tell your mates how nice the coffee was...........
 
so try going into the coffee shop, order a cuppa and leave without paying but say that you will tell your mates how nice the coffee was...........

That's not quite the same. But I'm sure you're aware of that anyway.
 
The point didn't need to be made, never mind made so melodramatically. It's a discussion forum not a point scoring exercise.

but the point needs to made that the OP stated that images were stolen...to me that is a very serious matter.
 
If the license terms were loose to say the least then there's nothing the OP can do though, better to mark it down to experience and try to gain from it through them being credited than any other form of pursuit though?

Years ago I posted one of my photos on a forum and someone else claimed it was theirs and I'd stolen it. Turned out we'd taken almost identical photos, I wondered if they'd been stood beside me when I took mine. I'm not saying that's what happened here but it's a difficult burden of proof.
 
If the license terms were loose to say the least then there's nothing the OP can do though, better to mark it down to experience and try to gain from it through them being credited than any other form of pursuit though?

Years ago I posted one of my photos on a forum and someone else claimed it was theirs and I'd stolen it. Turned out we'd taken almost identical photos, I wondered if they'd been stood beside me when I took mine. I'm not saying that's what happened here but it's a difficult burden of proof.
I agree with your last part, that is why I am not making assumptions like other folk.
 
but the point needs to made that the OP stated that images were stolen...to me that is a very serious matter.

yeah but he's wrong

not only is copyright violation not theft , but it isnt even clear that copyright has been violated

a more likely scenario is that someone made a derivative work and creditted him on their websiste etc, then sold the print of it to the resteraunt (it doesnt specifically say on that licence that attribution has to be on every print)

on your parralel - that creative commons licence is like a coffee shop giving customers carte blanche to walk out with their drinks without paying so long as they tell their mates where they got it.
 
yeah but he's wrong

not only is copyright violation not theft , but it isnt even clear that copyright has been violated

a more likely scenario is that someone made a derivative work and creditted him on their websiste etc, then sold the print of it to the resteraunt (it doesnt specifically say on that licence that attribution has to be on every print)

on your parralel - that creative commons licence is like a coffee shop giving customers carte blanche to walk out with their drinks without paying so long as they tell their mates where they got it.

It is not me making assumptions, unlike you are.

It was not me that said anything was stolen.

It is not my Creative Commons license.
 
Ok, so by default you have restricted licence on Flickr, all rights reserved.
Are the creative commons licences worth it? If so which would you use?
 
I am disinclined to treat this as simply one to 'chalk up to experience' simply because of CC licensing.

No the cafe owner needs to display a credit, though I'd also be willing to bet the cafe own has brought the images from someone/somewhere :cautious: which could also raise an interesting question on liability

In the terms of the CC licence cited, there is no ambiguity: the licence requires attribution of the author of the work, and that for any re-use of the image, the terms of the CC licence must be made clear to others.

If the owner of the bar was unaware of the terms of the licence, then, legally, they must assume that normal copyright terms apply.

If they were misled by the person that supplied the image to them, then it is a contractual matter between the restaurant and the person that supplied the image to them.

but if he doesn't display a credit then the license is broken.

Quite. CC is a system of licensing built within copyright law, not an alternative to copyright law.

If I licence (not-CC) one of my photographs to a company for use in a company report with a print run of 2,500 copies, and subsequently discover that they have used it in an advertising campaign, they have breached the terms of their licence and I would be entitled to take action against them for infringement of my copyright.

There is no difference in principle in this case. The terms of the OP's licence have been breached (by not providing proper attribution on the copies displayed in the restaurant). At this point the restaurant holds no legal licence to use the work* and the OP is entitled to seek redress for the infringement.


While not in the UK courts, there is precedent in a similar case in Germany.

http://wiki.creativecommons.org/Gerlach_vs._DVU

creativecommons.org has a listing of other case law relating to the use of CC licences:

http://wiki.creativecommons.org/Case_Law

There are other, similar cases (mostly also in Germany) where courts have upheld the rights of authors to enforce the GPL 'free' software licence, which inspired Creative Commons licensing for artistic works.

Once the restaurant has been notified, an ex-post facto addition of a credit may bring the use of the images into compliance with the licence terms, but it does not void the copyright violation that has already occurred. It is up to the OP to decide whether that would satisfy his grievance. He would be within his rights to demand that the infringing prints be removed from the restaurant and destroyed.

The only question that remains unanswered is, if the OP were to take action against the restaurant, what commercial value would be placed on the images, since he has released them under a CC-BY license, which allows commercial use (with attribution). In English law, should it come to a court case, the OP is entitled to recover damages for the infringement, i.e. that which he has been deprived by the defendant's use of his work. The defendant might argue that the value of the images has been diminished by the CC-BY licence.

However, I should note that in at least one US case relating to Cisco Systems' violations of the GPL, a settlement was reached which involved Cisco making cash contributions to the Free Software Foundation.

Giving something away for free (under certain conditions) does not necessarily imply that it has no value. There is a parallel with some cosmetics companies suing people reselling their product samples, even though they were given to dealers at no charge, under condition that they were not for resale.

edit: The answer to the question of value would lie in what price the OP would have agreed to license the images to the restaurant with no attribution, should they have approached him to use them outside the terms of the CC licence.


not only is copyright violation not theft , but it isnt even clear that copyright has been violated

a more likely scenario is that someone made a derivative work and creditted him on their websiste etc, then sold the print of it to the resteraunt (it doesnt specifically say on that licence that attribution has to be on every print)

No, it is clear that a licence violation has occurred.

The terms of the licence state

CC BY 2.0 said:
You are free: to copy, distribute, display, and perform the work

...

Under the following conditions:

Attribution — You must give the original author credit.

[emphasis added]

The works were being displayed without attribution, therefore the terms of the licence have been breached. Ipso facto, copyright has been violated.

QED.


* s7 of the full, legal text of the CC licence sets this out explicitly - "This License and the rights granted hereunder will terminate automatically upon any breach by You of the terms of this License."
 
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