Stop and Search under s44 ruled ILLEGAL!

They can still harass you and question what you're doing.

They will just claim now that you were acting suspiciously and they are allowed to intervene in those circumstances I believe.
 
Norma - I agree entirely with your view and I'm glad to hear that s44 has been ruled illegal. My partner will be visiting UK in April through May and is much relieved.

Our Govt. has also just this week announced that as of January 2011 passengers at all airports in Australia will be subject to a full body search by Xray, which is not only a gross violation of personal privacy, but IMO hands yet another victory to those entities that the law is seeking to thwart; and that victory is the curtailment of our civil liberties.
 
Sec 44 of the Terrorism Act has NOT been ruled illegal!!

However, the way some officers and forces have USED the legislation has. The legislation is still legal and will still exist for a long time to come. All the European Court ruling has ascertained is that reasonable suspicion is required in order for a search to be justified.
 
trencheel303 said:
True but as I've just said over on another forum, it's going to make it significantly harder. The ambiguity of s44 meant that it could be abused left right and centre and it couldn't actually be proven. s44 allows a police officer to stop anyone and search them regardless, which is an infringement of human rights.
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Only in designated areas, normally near military bases or sensitive areas. S44 doesn't apply everywhere.
 
In the words of the Borg, "Resistance is futile". :eek:
 
Can this be put to bed for once and all?

I am all for civil liberty and the freedom to do whatever wherever etc etc.........

however, I have absolutely no problem with Mr Plod asking me what I am doing........... "Takking a photograph Officer."

Should it be the Gherkin, or whatever (insert other major London finance building here), or anything else.... an innocent picture , and I have it all in the frame........... so what? Yeah take a look.......nothing to hide....... though if i am in the street with a 120-400 maxed out, focussing on the entrance, and keypad....I fully expect to be questioned as to exactly what I am doing.............

Maybe I am being a wuss, but getting hacked off with 101 threadas on the same topic.

If you have nothing to hide, whats the issue?
 
[building here), or anything else.... an innocent picture , and I have it all in the frame......QUOTE=Lynton;2342396]Can this be put to bed for once and all?



If you have nothing to hide, whats the issue?[/QUOTE]

The issue is to do with freedom! But maybe that's not important to someone like you.
 
gabe said:
The issue is to do with freedom! But maybe that's not important to someone like you.
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Its got nothing to do with 'freedom'. Being asked a simple question on the street doesn't suddenly turn the UK into a dictatorship does it? Some people really are wrapped up in cotton wool and don't know how easy you have it in the UK (these are probably the same people who have never left our shores). I've been to many countries around the world and believe you me, the UK is a very 'free' country indeed compared to most.

Caught back chatting a cop in pretty much any other country and even looking at them the wrong way would normally mean a close encounter with their baton, or worse.

And I agree with the previous post, this subject is really tedious now!
 
Lol, because what annoys me about some of these threads is people seem to think we live in a dictatorship ruled by big brother, I then feel compelled to put it right which no doubt falls on a lot of deaf ears... So you're right, why bother?!
 
odd jim said:
Lol, because what annoys me about some of these threads is people seem to think we live in a dictatorship ruled by big brother, I then feel compelled to put it right which no doubt falls on a lot of deaf ears... So you're right, why bother?!
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Lol, what annoys me is that I don't think that, and I do know how much worse it could be, but I'll also fight hard to make sure that we don't live in a dictatorship and I think there are enough poorely thought through laws and 'anti-terrorism' measures in this country now that we are in danger of starting to become that society - but if people will willingly give up the freedoms they have, then also why bother?
 
...but thats my point, we are so far the opposite of a dictatorship in the UK, why are people worrying? I bet most people on here havn't even been searched under s44 TA, most of this is media scaremongering.

Thats not to say the legislation has not been abused (deliberately or innocently) by some officers in some cases, but this doesn't amount to the erosion of civil liberties by a long shot. I do hear what you are saying though, but the laws relating to terrorism are broad so as not to place barriers and restrictions on national security. Catch 22.
 
odd jim said:
...but thats my point, we are so far the opposite of a dictatorship in the UK, why are people worrying? I bet most people on here havn't even been searched under s44 TA, most of this is media scaremongering.

Thats not to say the legislation has been not abused (deliberately or innocently) by some officers in some cases, but this doesn't amount to the erosion of civil liberties by a long shot. I do hear what you are saying though, but the laws relating to terrorism are broad so as not to place barriers and restrictions on national security. Catch 22.
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I think we're never going to agree about S44, so with the greatest of respect I'm going to bow politely out of this discussion before we end up going in circles like all the other threads on this topic :)
 
Agreed! And I always vowed not to carry these s44 discussions on, lol! :lol:
 
boyfalldown said:
Lol, what annoys me is that I don't think that, and I do know how much worse it could be, but I'll also fight hard to make sure that we don't live in a dictatorship and I think there are enough poorely thought through laws and 'anti-terrorism' measures in this country now that we are in danger of starting to become that society - but if people will willingly give up the freedoms they have, then also why bother?
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Well said. And those folks who think it can't happen here are just burying their heads in the sand! By the time they've woken up to the reality of things it will, sadly, be too late. Hats off to all the folks who went to London to protest.
 
odd jim said:
Some people really are wrapped up in cotton wool and don't know how easy you have it in the UK (these are probably the same people who have never left our shores). I've been to many countries around the world and believe you me, the UK is a very 'free' country indeed compared to most.

Caught back chatting a cop in pretty much any other country and even looking at them the wrong way would normally mean a close encounter with their baton, or worse.
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Yup, and I said this in the last thread before someone locked it... and I mentioned France, Germany and the USA.... you know, "the free West".

See how free it is if you run into their police...
 
Lynton said:
Can this be put to bed for once and all?

I am all for civil liberty and the freedom to do whatever wherever etc etc.........

however, I have absolutely no problem with Mr Plod asking me what I am doing........... "Takking a photograph Officer."

Should it be the Gherkin, or whatever (insert other major London finance building here), or anything else.... an innocent picture , and I have it all in the frame........... so what? Yeah take a look.......nothing to hide....... though if i am in the street with a 120-400 maxed out, focussing on the entrance, and keypad....I fully expect to be questioned as to exactly what I am doing.............

Maybe I am being a wuss, but getting hacked off with 101 threadas on the same topic.

If you have nothing to hide, whats the issue?
Click to expand...


What Lynton said!

Personally if approached i usually engage with them they usually then take an interest in the shots you have taken.They have on occasion liked what they saw on the screen and we have exchanged email details so i can forward a water-marked image of the one they liked.

End result = a possible chance of a sale
 
odd jim said:
Sec 44 of the Terrorism Act has NOT been ruled illegal!!

However, the way some officers and forces have USED the legislation has. The legislation is still legal and will still exist for a long time to come. All the European Court ruling has ascertained is that reasonable suspicion is required in order for a search to be justified.
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Point of fact. s44 states that no suspicion is required for a search (well, actually it is s45, Exercise of Power)

s45 said:
The power conferred by an authorisation under section 44(1) or (2) ... may be exercised whether or not the constable has grounds for suspecting the presence of articles of that kind
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If it were merely the case that the police were misusing the law as laid out by Parliament, then UK courts would have ruled against them much earlier in the process.

I suppose if we're being pedantic, then 's44' has been ruled as incompatible with the UK's treaty obligations under the European Convention on Human Rights, to which it is a signatory and is required to reconsider the legislation to make it compatible with those obligations.

However, within most common definitions, I suggest that search without suspicion, a key element of the UK legislation in question, would be accepted as having been 'ruled illegal'. International law is constructed by treaty between sovereign nations.

It is also worth noting that the judgement of the ECHR is not final until either

a) an appeal is lodged by the UK government and the Grand Chamber rules that the original ECHR decision was wrong.

b) no appeal is lodged by the UK government within 3 months of the ECHR decision (i.e. by 19th April).

Nor is the judgement of the ECHR binding on lower courts in the UK (and police behaviour) where the UK Supreme Court (formerly the House of Lords) decided otherwise in their judgement of the same case.

Further reading: http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/libertycentral/2010/feb/03/stop-search-police-section-44
 
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