Stripbox size advice

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cargo

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Gary
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Hi

I'm sure most on here know that I just enjoy photography and I take photos for fun/hobby.
So like most I watch the various videos on the subject.

That said I have seen a few videos lately on product photography. The guy used a a strip box which seemed very useful, he was using a speedlight which is fine as I use speedlights. Although I recently bought the Ad 200.
I own a few softboxes most of them bought on advice from you people on here. They have been great and have worked well. On occasion I use clothes pegs to attach blocking material to make a strip box which works fine but I'm thinking a stritbox would be beneficial too and I'm sure they will be versatile. "Have a bit of cash from Birthdays to loose" In fact a few tenners from the Birthday before "old style" !!!!!

So there are two sizes I was looking at and although the smaller looks great for a smaller space I was maybe thinking the larger one may have more uses. eg: people.
Could anyone give some advice on which I would get more use from.

Thanks
Gaz




Larger one Pixapro
30x120cm (11.8"x47.2") Strip Softbox With 5cm Grid

Smaller one Bessel
90cmx22cm Honeycomb Grid 4cm



 
90cm would be the largest that could give reasonable results from a flashgun that has a fixed reflector, I.e. a standard flashgun. Lencarta have one that's specifically designed for flashguns.

A studio flash, or an AD200, can typically be used with one up to 2m in length, and bigger is usually better.
 
Garry Edwards said:
A studio flash, or an AD200, can typically be used with one up to 2m in length, and bigger is usually better.
Click to expand...
Thanks Garry.

I think it would make sense to buy the larger one from your reply as like I say I own the AD200. I have gotten that used to using my Canon 580ex's that the AD200 has not had that much use really.
Although I have never really wanted to buy studio heads. "occasional feel the urge" With having the AD200 it would make sense to buy the Ad600 in the future which would also handle that size box and talk to the other flash.

Thanks again.



Gaz
 
In that case, take a look at the lencarta 140cm one, much better product with a much more effective honeycomb grid - a legacy from when I had design input...
 
Garry Edwards said:
n that case, take a look at the lencarta 140cm one, much better product with a much more effective honeycomb grid
Click to expand...

Thanks for replying again Garry

Had a look at that one. It sure does look well made and I guess you get what you pay for as it is double the cost of the one I looked at earlier, inc the grid and delivery.
I have read your posts before regarding the effectiveness of grids on cheaper modifiers.
It's quite difficult to know as a hobbiest how much to spend on these things as the cheaper softboxes that have been reccomended on here have all worked really well.

Gaz
 
cargo said:
Thanks for replying again Garry

Had a look at that one. It sure does look well made and I guess you get what you pay for as it is double the cost of the one I looked at earlier, inc the grid and delivery.
I have read your posts before regarding the effectiveness of grids on cheaper modifiers.
It's quite difficult to know as a hobbiest how much to spend on these things as the cheaper softboxes that have been reccomended on here have all worked really well.

Gaz
Click to expand...
Better quality wall material for longer life, better design, for zero or substantially less light leaks, substantially deeper, and very high quality front diffuser, for much more even light diffusion - these are where the extra cost goes. I happen to know exactly what the cost to produce, and so I know that the profit is minimal. The cheaper ones do sort of work, but nowhere near as well.

As for the honeycomb grids, the ones with larger holes hardly work at all.
 
cargo said:
I have read your posts before regarding the effectiveness of grids on cheaper modifiers.
Click to expand...
A grid is essentially a grouping of snoots similar to a snoot on a speedlight, if it is wide or short it will have minimal effect on the quality of light at the subject... Grids are most effective at short distances; softboxes too for that matter...
 
sk66 said:
A grid is essentially a grouping of snoots similar to a snoot on a speedlight, if it is wide or short it will have minimal effect on the quality of light at the subject... Grids are most effective at short distances; softboxes too for that matter...
Click to expand...
Hopefully the grid has minimal Influence on the quality of light. What Id want it to do though is help me control light to keep it form going where I do not want the light to go :)
The way the grid can change the quality of light is offcource by minimizing spill and the filling of shadows from that spill.
 
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soeren said:
Hopefully the grid has minimal Influence on the quality of light. What Id want it to do though is help me control light to keep it form going where I do not want the light to go :)
The way the grid can change the quality of light is offcource by minimizing spill and the filling of shadows from that spill.
Click to expand...
Kind of; not really...
A key to understanding softboxes is in understanding that they don't really make your light source larger; rather they break the light source up into a larger number of smaller light sources. And each of those smaller light sources has it's own fan of illumination... I.e. you can mask a softbox to any size and it will still act like a softbox.
The spill reduction you speak of is a rather small aspect of a grid... the same can be achieved with flags or a recessed diffusion surface. In a large enough space that concern would be eliminated (i.e. outdoors), but a grid still serves a purpose.

The primary benefit of a grid is that it divides all of those light sources into smaller groupings and "snoots" them, this reduces the wrap angle of the light between them. The taller and tighter the grid is, the more affect it will have on the quality of light. But in order to see the difference the softbox has to be close enough to where the wrap characteristic would have affected the image to start with. If it is far enough away that the light reaching the subject is mostly parallel, then it will have little/no effect. Just as the loss of light due to using a grid varies with the distance it is used... i.e. if the spread/wrap isn't reaching the subject, then the grid absorbing it is irrelevant.

Edit: It might be easier to think of a grid as being an array of tiny flagged softboxes... I.e. if you wanted to combine two softboxes to create a larger softbox for soft light (wrap) you would want them to overlap in the middle (at the subject) just as all of the smaller points overlap individually. But if you wanted to isolate their effects you would want/need to put a large flag/divider between them.
 
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It's also worth mentioning that Honeycombed softboxes are rarely used for product photography, simply because the light that they produce, close up and especially on shiny surfaces, in very uneven and nowhere near the standard needed.

The only time that you will normally need to use one is in a typical strip softbox scenario, I.e. when itvis pointing more or less towards camera, in a rimlighting or backlighting situation. Typically, with product photography, the strip softbox is used either to light bottles or to save space.

Having said that, when you do need to use a honeycomb, it does need to work, and the shallow, large hole ones are useless.
 
sk66 said:
Kind of; not really...
A key to understanding softboxes is in understanding that they don't really make your light source larger; rather they break the light source up into a larger number of smaller light sources. And each of those smaller light sources has it's own fan of illumination... I.e. you can mask a softbox to any size and it will still act like a softbox.
The spill reduction you speak of is a rather small aspect of a grid... the same can be achieved with flags or a recessed diffusion surface. In a large enough space that concern would be eliminated (i.e. outdoors), but a grid still serves a purpose.

The primary benefit of a grid is that it divides all of those light sources into smaller groupings and "snoots" them, this reduces the wrap angle of the light between them. The taller and tighter the grid is, the more affect it will have on the quality of light. But in order to see the difference the softbox has to be close enough to where the wrap characteristic would have affected the image to start with. If it is far enough away that the light reaching the subject is mostly parallel, then it will have little/no effect. Just as the loss of light due to using a grid varies with the distance it is used... i.e. if the spread/wrap isn't reaching the subject, then the grid absorbing it is irrelevant.

Edit: It might be easier to think of a grid as being an array of tiny flagged softboxes... I.e. if you wanted to combine two softboxes to create a larger softbox for soft light (wrap) you would want them to overlap in the middle (at the subject) just as all of the smaller points overlap individually. But if you wanted to isolate their effects you would want/need to put a large flag/divider between them.
Click to expand...
S... I forgot the wrap around effect :oops: :$
 
sk66 said:
The primary benefit of a grid is that it divides all of those light sources into smaller groupings and "snoots" them, this reduces the wrap angle of the light between them. The taller and tighter the grid is, the more affect it will have on the quality of light. But in order to see the difference the softbox has to be close enough to where the wrap characteristic would have affected the image to start with. If it is far enough away that the light reaching the subject is mostly parallel, then it will have little/no effect. Just as the loss of light due to using a grid varies with the distance it is used... i.e. if the spread/wrap isn't reaching the subject, then the grid absorbing it is irrelevant.
Click to expand...

I used to think this, too.

However - in my tests with the nearly* excellent Lencarta grids show that the change in the wrap characteristic you talk of is very hard to perceive or distinguish from the effect of reduced fill from spilled light bouncing around.

My tests were vaguely scientific but not exhaustive.

*nearly.. the Lencarta grids do actually work - unlike most (Bessel, I'm looking at some of yours - as well as some third party grids for Elinchrom stuff)

The Lencarta unstitched design is a pain, though, meaning that I need to rearrange the grid fabric every time I use it.
 
juggler said:
I used to think this, too.

However - in my tests with the nearly* excellent Lencarta grids show that the change in the wrap characteristic you talk of is very hard to perceive or distinguish from the effect of reduced fill from spilled light bouncing around.

My tests were vaguely scientific but not exhaustive.

*nearly.. the Lencarta grids do actually work - unlike most (Bessel, I'm looking at some of yours - as well as some third party grids for Elinchrom stuff)

The Lencarta unstitched design is a pain, though, meaning that I need to rearrange the grid fabric every time I use it.
Click to expand...
I wish they quoted an angle for them like they do for honeycombs.

I think they generally have to be REALLY close for it to be apparent.
 
sk66 said:
I wish they quoted an angle for them like they do for honeycombs.

I think they generally have to be REALLY close for it to be apparent.
Click to expand...
An angle for what?
If you mean the angle for the softbox honeycombs, it's a theorectical 42 degrees, and when I was at Lencarta the website did state that, not sure that whether it does so now though, because the website is very different.
I say 'theorectical' because, as Juggler points out, the honeycomb sections don't always hold their shape very well. Blame me for that, because I specified the construction method, many years ago, on the grounds of cost. Sewn ones just cost too much to produce, and anyway it doesn't really matter if a few of them are out of shape, personally I never bothered to try to fiddle with them to get them right, life is simply too short to waste:)
 
Garry Edwards said:
An angle for what?
If you mean the angle for the softbox honeycombs, it's a theorectical 42 degrees, and when I was at Lencarta the website did state that, not sure that whether it does so now though, because the website is very different.
I say 'theorectical' because, as Juggler points out, the honeycomb sections don't always hold their shape very well. Blame me for that, because I specified the construction method, many years ago, on the grounds of cost. Sewn ones just cost too much to produce, and anyway it doesn't really matter if a few of them are out of shape, personally I never bothered to try to fiddle with them to get them right, life is simply too short to waste:)
Click to expand...
 
Theory and angles are one thing, but should be overlaid with some real world practise because both the environment and subject distance can change things a lot.

A simple experiment is to stand the un-gridded softbox upright in the middle of the floor and note the extent of spill on the ceiling and walls. In a small studio with light-toned ceiling and walls, this spill will bounce around the room and back to the subject where it will lighten shadows quite noticeably (can be either a good or bad thing) Then fit the grid and check the greatly reduced pattern of spill, but also look directly at the softbox front. From across the room at say 3-4m, the whole of the softbox front will be clearly visible, but when you move right up close like a couple of feet away, light will pass freely through the centre of the grid, but towards the edges and corners the gaps will become progressively smaller. With a larger softbox, the edges may be completely blocked, effectively acting like a smaller softbox with a gradual vignette to the light.
 
HoppyUK said:
Theory and angles are one thing, but should be overlaid with some real world practise because both the environment and subject distance can change things a lot.

A simple experiment is to stand the un-gridded softbox upright in the middle of the floor and note the extent of spill on the ceiling and walls. In a small studio with light-toned ceiling and walls, this spill will bounce around the room and back to the subject where it will lighten shadows quite noticeably (can be either a good or bad thing) Then fit the grid and check the greatly reduced pattern of spill, but also look directly at the softbox front. From across the room at say 3-4m, the whole of the softbox front will be clearly visible, but when you move right up close like a couple of feet away, light will pass freely through the centre of the grid, but towards the edges and corners the gaps will become progressively smaller. With a larger softbox, the edges may be completely blocked, effectively acting like a smaller softbox with a gradual vignette to the light.
Click to expand...
:plus1:
Nice, simple, clear way to see/explain the effect.
 
Garry Edwards said:
In that case, take a look at the lencarta 140cm one, much better product with a much more effective honeycomb grid - a legacy from when I had design input...
Click to expand...
Hi Garry.
After taking photos of the bike in the other thread. I was thinking this would have been a good choice ?
I have question before I order.

Currently I use the adapters in this link https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00IM3W8L6/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o03_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
I use this with the ad200 and my Canon 580s.
If I order https://www.lencarta.com/profold-folding-strip-softbox-lencarta-bowens-140-x-27cm-sof067
Will it fit onto the speedring or do I need something else. Further down the Lencarta page it says interchangable fits Elinchrom but I thought the speed ring was Bowens fit.

Appreciate any help you could give.

Thanks
Gaz
 
The image doesn't match the description... looks like a simple mistake, but easy enough to call/verify (plus, they might like to know about the issue).

You won't want to use a speedlight with it though, the ad200 bare bulb should be fine.
 
What Steven said, they’ll fit. I wouldn’t use the speedlight (but you might get away with it if you’re ingenious)

Re the Elinchrom mount detail, I think it’s just to show that the speeding is interchangeable, but the listed item is Bowen’s fit.
 
Yes, it will fit on to the flash head directly, and various other speedrings are also available, to fit other makes. The strip softbox is an excelle nt tool.
The adapter you linked too is to allow hotshoe flashguns to be used with lencarta/bowens fit accessories, but large softboxes don't work well with flashguns.
I've told lencarta about a number of errors on their website.
 
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