struggling to see the light

digitalfailure

digitalfailure

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Brian
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Good afternoon you wonderful lot

I'm really hoping someone can help me here with a plain speaking and informative flash tutorial.

Especially interested in small dark venue (i.e pub / club) techniques that don't fully illuminate the often messy backgrounds, but still have enough cover to evenly light a moving performer.

Sounds like a tall order, but pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeease help because my 5D and 430ex combo isn't doing a very good job on P mode

Thanks :)
 
I'll have a bash, but I'm no tutor so you'll have to bear with me.

First things first, the background and the foreground subject. Unless you can get your flash off camera so it's not directed at the background it'll come down to camera-subject-camera-background distance and light fall off. Remeber the inverse square law thing do with with flash that nobody talks about anymore? This explains things much better than I can but essentially you'll need to shoot the subject as close to you and as far away from the background as possible. If the background is 4 metres away and your subject is 3 metres away the difference between the subject and background isn't very big. If the background is 4 metres away and the subject is one metre away then the difference between the subject is much greater so the light required to hit the subject is "less" and falls off towards the background.

If I was you I'd get off P mode and shoot the camera in manual. That way you can fully control any ambient lighting that you want or don't want in the shot. Being in a dark pub I don't think you'll need to worry about low ISO and small apertures to kill the ambient. I'd then try the flash in TTL (might be hit and miss), Auto (if your flash has a thyristor, sometimes more reliable than TTL) and Manual. I find the scale on the back quite helpful on my flashes once you've put in the ISO and aperture it'll give you a distance capability for a given power setting, it's not perfect but it's a good starting point.

The light fall off thing works on all sorts, here I've photographed a model car inside a light tent and I've managed to make the background black by placing the light closer to the subject.

769893592_50ebce7386_o.jpg

Strobist info for 2nd exercise.
Flashgun-1/4 power-6ft
Camera-1/125-F7.1

769893592_50ebce7386_o.jpg

Strobist info for 2nd exercise.
Flashgun-1/4 power-6ft
Camera-1/125-F7.1

769893354_6ca03af642_o.jpg

Strobist info for 2nd exercise.
Flashgun-1/128 power-6 inches
Camera-1/125-F11
 
Hi Kev

Thanks for the reply :)

The subject is often performing and moving at a fair rate so that's why I've tended to stay away from Manual as much as possible and instead try to let the brains inside the camera do the job. The distance from subject to camera and subject to background really is all over the place which makes things really hard to keep the cozy ambience and get and even exposure :bang:

The Canon 430 doesn't give you the app/distance scale on the display, so i'm hampered by that a little too.....maybe a 580exII is on the cards :D

More testing required ......BTW............love the car shots especially the one with the blacked background.
 
I'll have a bash, but I'm no tutor so you'll have to bear with me.
Click to expand...

He may not be a tutor but I doubt whether you'll get a better answer...
 
in my experience the brains in the camera are generally equivalent to the brains inside the birds than some of the TP'ers shoot.

Kev M is right, go to manual, but in my experience - go to manual flash too.

Set the camera to record ambient (background ) and fix the power of the flash to capture the performers. You'll get some dodgy shots, but in my experience you'll get a lot more good ones than if you rely on E-TTL etc.

other suggestion is to do what Kev has done, and actually play with your camera and flash at home and see what the difference is for changing camera and flash settings individually
 
I'm no expert but I've shot my friend's band a few times. If the lighting is truly awful flash is your only option; at their next gig I'm going to try a flash with power turned down and a snoot/ gridspot.

When the lighting is better I shoot in manual mode, manual focus with the fastest lens I have : 50mm f/1.4 although I'll also try a 100mm f2.8 next time. I've used ISO3200 where the lighting was almost non-existent and ISO800 where the lighting was pretty good. I've also used an 18-55mm IS lens - not fast but it's all I had.

Experimentation is the key in my limited experience. And don't forget to try burst mode (think that's what it's called).

The one below is:

Exposure: 0.025 sec (1/40)
Aperture: f/5.6
Focal Length: 55 mm
ISO Speed: 3200

Not that great but I learnt a lot and the quest continues :)


 
Bands aren't too bad in my limited experience, The event i've just attended had the performers coming as close as a couple of feet away from me and then retreating 10 to 15ft or so in a matter of seconds so there's no time to adjust settings. Hence me placing my trust in Mr canon and his associate Mr Auto Matic.

Got to be said.....................I sucked !!!!!!!!!



Thanks for all the responses so far......keep the ideas coming though as I'll be dying again at the end of the month if I don't come up with something :eek:
 
can you get the lights closer? I shoot an open mike and i tape flashes to the stage with wireless triggers and walk around shooting. That way I can choose to use them or not and also control power (provided the 2 flashes are balanced) by altering aperture and ISO.

Is this what your going for ?

1.jpg


2.jpg
 
Those look very under-exposed to me David.

It's funny everyone tells you to use manual, I find using AV mode works too. Manual is not the only way. I do use manual when I want to get the background exposed properly, but if I want the background to be less obvious I shoot AV.

Can't take the credit for this tip as it's all Joe McNally but... Dial -ev into your camera in AV mode, then dial +ev into your flash to match. Try it ;)

Pete
 
I've just started playing with my newly aquired 430ex on my 40D, so I can sympathise. I'd definately take in what Kev M has said, but bear in mind that when shooting in manual mode you can change the aperture value faster than the performer can move. If you set the ISO and flash power to shoot with a small aperture when the performer is close, when they move away all you need to do is open up the aperture. With practice you'll learn which values work best for which distances.

I'd suggest starting at F11 aperture, ISO200, 1/250 shutter speed, and half power on the flash as a basis for the close ups, make the aperture tighter if its too bright, and up the ISO or flash power if its too dim. Once you're set for up close, just play with the relationship between the subject distance and the aperture :).

My ISO and flash power numbers might be off because I'm still new to this myself, but I'm convinced my principle is sound. :)
 
I wanted them to be underexposed it suits the subject, kinda hate over exposed nuked stuff (just personal taste)

For on camera use I often use ttl and exposure adjustment, but generally if I shoot a band and am allowed flash I am allowed to set it up properly before hand (so far at least) so I have had a pair attached to the stage on ebay triggers and that way I can shoot from all round the room but get even consistent light (at 200mm and the far corner flash power falls off a bit)

Getting the flashes closer also means I can run down the power (saving batteries and upping shot frequency) and keep the background darker as my flash:subject:background ratio was better
 
Welsh Dan said:
and up the ISO or flash power if its too dim.
Click to expand...

I tried that the other day as I was told its what you do to get a bit more light.........but ISO100 didnt look any different to ISO1600! :shrug:
 
If the flash is on ETTL it won't make a difference, but if the flash is on manual there will be one, unless the subject is so far away that both shots are black :).
 
Welsh Dan said:
If the flash is on ETTL it won't make a difference, but if the flash is on manual there will be one, unless the subject is so far away that both shots are black :).
Click to expand...

Oh... thanks for that! ;)
 
David

I'm interested to read more of your set up, so far all the venues that have allowed me to use flash have been quite accommodating and have allowed me to see the area before the show started.
 
digitalfailure said:
Bands aren't too bad in my limited experience, The event i've just attended had the performers coming as close as a couple of feet away from me and then retreating 10 to 15ft or so in a matter of seconds so there's no time to adjust settings.
Click to expand...

These "Performers"; they aren't in a "gentleman's" club are they? ;)

I don't believe photography is allowed at these "performances".
 
similar and yet sooooo very different :)

And with permission, yes cameras and flash are allowed if you talk to the right people ;)
 
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