Studio flash brands – I'm 30 years out of date

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but I doubt many components in BMW and Audi and VW cars come from that part of the world. If I can avoid China, I will, and it looks like I can here by going Profoto or Elinchrom. Don't mind the price, you get what you pay for.

BMW and VAG produce some of the most unreliable and poorly engineered cars imaginable.

There is a myth that "German" engineered and built stuff is better but I can tell you from owning several Mercedes and BMW's this is not the case - even my Meile appliances are woeful with the dishwasher being the ultimate dud. Actually - that's reserved for my former Zeiss 21mm - woefully soft in the corners and sharp only in the middle. No Japanese, Taiwanese made stuff I've had has been as bad. Made or engineered in Germany makes me run for the hills.

Quality reliable goods come from the far east.
 
As an aside, 'Interfit'? Any good? The S1 and S1a heads? How do they compair with Godox and Elinchrom for example? Anybody any experience with Interfit or any knowledge of them? From what I can gather, after looking around the web, they appear to be a small, but dedicated, UK company who appear to be passionate about what they do.
As above comments, and they are in fact low end Chinese anyway. What they used to have going for them was good marketing, with penetration into many camera shops - when there were a lot of camera shops around. Their owner is very successful in property, my guess is that the brand doesn't make a positive financial contribution to his fortune.
 
Thanks for clarifying the Interfit stuff.
 
Just getting back into the groove of things after a 30 year hiatus too. Digital photography & modern equipment requires a totally fresh perspective and its made me feel as if I am starting photography all over again, a bit like going back to college which of course can be a lot of fun! A few things I have learnt so far;

Like you I am doing home studio shots but in my living room & so far without a backdrop . I use 3 x Multiblitz 500 heads which I purchased 20 years ago (used for some commercial shoots for my company back then & stored away since, so almost new). I noticed faces were coming out a lot warmer, 1st suspect was the lightbox so used silver brolly - same. Used new softbox - same, trying 1 to 5 settings on flash heads - same, my fix at the end was to change the K setting on camera or post production. I did buy an AD200 and used it with softbox and didn't have any issues with skin tone. I need to investigate and see what the problem is with my flashheads, does the K rating drop over time even if not used? moral of the story is be careful with mix & match flashheads. Another issue I have with mixing and matching my lot is that I obviously can't use the X-pro trigger & AM radio trigger (for my multiblitz) as they occupy the same hot shoe so AD200 is usually relegated to slave duty unless I have a direct path between it and the multiblitz IR sensor.

I wanted to do some outdoor flash photography and bought an AD200 with X-pro trigger and S mount bracket so that I could use it with softboxes and am really happy with it, I even use it in place of my 500 heads for some home studio shoots as I like the ability to change flash setting on the camera (trigger) and also the option to shoot f1.8 or 2.8 which I can't with the 500 heads, its also highly mobile which is handy if you need to go to someone else's house to do some pics, no wires either. Outdoor portraits, mixing flash & daylight have opened a whole new world for me and one I would highly recommend. If you do go down the godox route I highly recommend buying an AD200 as a 3rd head. I am not sure if you could still use the X-pro for the godox studio flash heads but if you can then it would be great as you could change individual settings on the camera mounted trigger.

I don't have enough experience with most of the modern flash heads to make any recommendations but I would find it hard to justify paying for high quality gear such as broncolor unless I was using them like a pro, day in day out. Of course I don't have a problem with paying if I get better results but doubt quality of light would be that different between established brands.

I would also do a bit of research about quality of light & various softbox brands to see if any limitations between softbox brand and flash head fitting which you could probably fix with an adaptor or 3 but it does add costs.
 
Some interesting points above.
A lof of nostalgia is in fact misplaced, with many of the 'ggod' brands producing very wrong and inconsistent colours, and especially when set to low power.

With good quality, modern flashes this has ceased to be a problem as such and when it does occur it's usually due tp bad softbox materials or design -I just don't understand why some people waste their money on cheap softboxes - a bit like fitting cheap lenses to expensive bodies.
 
Some interesting points above.

A lot of nostalgia is in fact misplaced, with many of the 'good' brands producing very wrong and inconsistent colours, and especially when set to low power.

With good quality, modern flashes this has ceased to be a problem as such and when it does occur it's usually due tp bad softbox materials or design -I just don't understand why some people waste their money on cheap softboxes - a bit like fitting cheap lenses to expensive bodies.

I did mention the fact that the "warm skin tone" problem was consistent through the power bandwidth which on my multiblitz is 1 to 5 and change of softbox to a new Lencarta one didn't change anything.

Without going crazy pricewise what are the good brands for softboxes?
 
I did mention the fact that the "warm skin tone" problem was consistent through the power bandwidth which on my multiblitz is 1 to 5 and change of softbox to a new Lencarta one didn't change anything.

Without going crazy pricewise what are the good brands for softboxes?
Lencarta (Redline Pro range only) and Elinchrom.
 
With good quality, modern flashes this has ceased to be a problem as such and when it does occur it's usually due tp bad softbox materials or design -I just don't understand why some people waste their money on cheap softboxes - a bit like fitting cheap lenses to expensive bodies.

It's because they don't have your knowledge, how are they to know how good or bad a softbox is until they've tried it? They all look like boxes with sheets in them so someone who doesn't know better will probably pump their budget into the electronics as they have a clear specification/feature set and try to save on the modifiers (or justify them as a later purchase).

I imagine you've dealt with a lot of people who fall into that category?
 
It's because they don't have your knowledge, how are they to know how good or bad a softbox is until they've tried it?
I can't tell if a softbox/modifier is good or bad until I have it in-hand and the ability to test it... and no, price is not always a good determinator (other than silly cheap).
 
I use 3 x Multiblitz 500 heads which I purchased 20 years ago (used for some commercial shoots for my company back then & stored away since, so almost new). I noticed faces were coming out a lot warmer,
They probably have warm tubes installed... this was pretty common back then for mixing with/switching between the more common/cost effective tungsten hot lights. You can get cold tone CT (daylight) tubes for them, but they aren't cheap.
I would just gel the AD200 to match and adjust the camera's WB setting.
 
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I have a Neweer Vision5 studio flash unit, it`s battery powered 400W init, seems ok, even has a model lamp incorporated into it if that`s your thing.
Yes I know it`s Chinese and it is also a re-branded unit for who`m I can`t think of atm but it works well for the money which was not too much.
https://neewer.com/collections/studio-lighting/products/monolights10090472
 
It's because they don't have your knowledge, how are they to know how good or bad a softbox is until they've tried it? They all look like boxes with sheets in them so someone who doesn't know better will probably pump their budget into the electronics as they have a clear specification/feature set and try to save on the modifiers (or justify them as a later purchase).

I imagine you've dealt with a lot of people who fall into that category?
I'm away the farm and only have my phone here - will try to reply fully when I'm back home, Friday night.
 
It's because they don't have your knowledge, how are they to know how good or bad a softbox is until they've tried it? They all look like boxes with sheets in them so someone who doesn't know better will probably pump their budget into the electronics as they have a clear specification/feature set and try to save on the modifiers (or justify them as a later purchase).

I imagine you've dealt with a lot of people who fall into that category?
I can't tell if a softbox/modifier is good or bad until I have it in-hand and the ability to test it... and no, price is not always a good determinator (other than silly cheap).

OK, here's my answer, hope it helps.

Because I've already covered this, and because I'm lazy, let's start off with a copy and paste from my book "Lighting Magic"

"But, not all softboxes are equal and before I explain what you need to look for in a softbox, I’m going to bore you with some history, which I believe to be relevant.

The very first softboxes were made of sheet steel or plywood, with a ground glass screen on the front. The flash heads didn’t attach to the softboxes, they were built into them! They were extremely expensive and could only be manoeuvred into position by using a block and tackle to adjust the height! But, despite the cost and the inconvenience, just about all professional studio photographers bought them, simply because they revolutionised the quality of their work.

The next generation came out in about 1979 and had improved so much that they were unrecognisable. An American Company, Chimera, made them from fabric tent materials instead of steel, and found a way of attaching a flash head to them. The Chimera softboxes look very similar to the ones that we use today. They were a brilliant advancement and suddenly, softboxes were both affordable and easy to use.

But, they were hand-made from good quality materials and they weren’t exactly cheap. The design was then copied and re-copied, time and time again, especially in China, by factories that are not run by photographers, and they became cheaper and cheaper, using terrible materials that fall to bits, don’t control the light spill properly and with diffusers that don’t diffuse properly. These terrible copies are still available today, and they are useless.

Back then someone asked me why I chose to use very expensive Chimera softboxes instead of cheap copies. At that time I was doing a lot of fashion photography, and my answer was simple: Good softboxes make cheap clothes look expensive!

Over time though, major lighting manufacturers were able to persuade softbox manufacturers to use decent materials and improve the designs, and as a result there are now some very good ones available. Most softboxes are now made in the same factory, in a very wide range of qualities, and they are sold under a host of different brand names.

My advice to you is to first decide on the size and shape of the softbox(es) that you need, and to then decide on the design. Once you’ve done that, you can decide on the quality.

softbox size:
The larger the softbox, the softer the light, at any given distance from the subject. When you move the softbox further from the softbox the quality of the light changes. The most obvious change is to the softness of the light, because softbox size is subject to Newton’s Inverse Square Law, so if you double the distance from softbox to subject it will, in effect, only be a quarter of its original size. Therefore, really big softboxes are a very good idea, if you have the space for them, and if they don’t get in the way of the camera.
But, smaller ones are sometimes needed too, so in a perfect world we need a range of different sizes – and different shapes."

End of copy / paste . . .

So how can you judge the quality of a softbox without trying it, and usually without actually seeing it first?
For a start, forget about who makes them or who claims to make them, which country they are allegedly made in or which name is printed on them. There's one big factory in China that makes most of them, and they happily brand them with whichever name is wanted. Some of their products are total junk, sold at extremely low factory gate prices, others are better and then there are the really top quality ones, all from the same factory - you pays your money and you takes your choice!

I spent about 10 years working with Lencarta and know that the large factories are more than capable of making whatever their customers want, at a price. It can be difficult to persuade them to use the very best materials and to make things exactly as designed by a photographer who knows what's needed, but they can and will do it if required. Unfortunately though, most sellers seem to be happy to buy their standard, cheap softboxes, get the factory to print their own name on them and sell them at premium prices - much more profit!

This particular factory used to make the very expensive Bowens range and there was nothing wrong with those except for the price. The Lencarta Redline Pro ones are made on the same production line and used to use the same materials - this has now changed to some extent because even better materials are now available. In the same small town is their closest competitor, basically a copycat. And then there's Godox, who make their own, they're cheap for a reason. And then there are hundreds (at least) of smaller softbox makers, I haven't visited all of their factories and don't know all of their products but I've never seen one that I would personally use.

I'll start out with the premise that the softbox will be used with a barebulb flash, either a studio flash head or with a flashgun that doesn't have a reflector fitted, because when a reflector is fitted to a flashgun the light hits the diffuser(s) directly and can't bounce off of the walls of the softbox, which severely restricts both the size options and the evenness of the light.

The first (and easy) way of making a judgement is on the depth of the softbox. Shallow ones take up less studio space and cost a lot less to make, but they nearly always fail to diffuse the light well. One (past) exception was the Bowens Wafer, but this was very carefully designed, very well made and very expensive. Most shallow ones are junk.

Next, look at the number of diffusers, just don't bother with any that only have a single diffuser. Elinchrom softboxes are good, but even they, years ago, sold a terrible one with a single diffuser, under their brand name 'Prolinca'.

Now look at the way that the front diffuser fits to the softbox. If it wraps around the front of the softbox, forget it, it will spill light everywhere and in many situations it will cause lens flare. If it fits with Velcro-style fastenings inside the front then that's slightly better, but you should avoid any softbox that doesn't have a deeply recessed front panel. That recess houses the honeycomb but it does far more because it also stops a lot of light going all over the place.

Next, look at the back, where the speedring is. The design will tell you whether or not a lot of light escapes at this point and if it does, walk away.

And now look at the thickness of the diffusers, the seller may or may not state the thickness and may or may not show a closeup photo of the diffusion material. They should, because the quality of the diffusers is paramount. Thin, almost transparent diffusers are useless.

And finally, does the seller offer replacement diffusers? They should, because diffusers yellow with age and need to be replaced.
 
OK, here's my answer, hope it helps.

Just the info I was looking for, thanks Garry. I am looking to replace my multiblitz diffuser fabric, my SO is a seamstress so would like to have a go at replacing the fabric and adding an inner diffuser fabric too (do good brands use the same fabric for inner & outer diffuser?). Do you know of a supplier that could sell the fabric by the meter?
 
Garry
Many thanks for this. It is very useful. At the moment I am not in the position to go around checking out various options.
Are redline pro and profold the same?
Also, any chance of naming an alternative brand that you think fits the bill?
 
Just the info I was looking for, thanks Garry. I am looking to replace my multiblitz diffuser fabric, my SO is a seamstress so would like to have a go at replacing the fabric and adding an inner diffuser fabric too (do good brands use the same fabric for inner & outer diffuser?). Do you know of a supplier that could sell the fabric by the meter?
Almost anything is good enough for the inner diffuser as long as it's fairly opaque. The outer diffuser needs to be thicker and to have - for want of a better term - some kind of grain on it that modifies waves of light into particles of light - but read up on quantum physics if you want a more technical explanation.

Ripstop nylon sailcloth would be a good starting point, but both Rosco and Lee used to make a wide variety of diffusion materials, may be worth looking into.

I’d buy a couple of plain shower curtains.
A good suggestion, but as with all materials not specifically designed for the purpose, be aware of the need for the material to have neutral colour - shower curtains can often be a bit too warm. Actually, from within my own experience the inner diffusers of good softboxes tend to be neutral and the outer diffusers to be a couple of hundred degrees K colder, this is because there is an almost immediate mild yellowing effect which applies only to the outer diffuser (exposed to the air) and the coolness is therefore inbuilt to compensate.

If modifying your softbox by fitting an inner diffuser for the first time, try to get it fitted fairly far back, and use maybe elastic loops to fit it to the softbox walls under mild tension. Leave a gap all round, this allows some light to escape the inner diffuser and so creates more even lighting on the front diffuser.
inner diffuser-500x500.jpg

Garry
Many thanks for this. It is very useful. At the moment I am not in the position to go around checking out various options.
Are redline pro and profold the same?
Also, any chance of naming an alternative brand that you think fits the bill?
From memory, the Profold is the base model, perfectly OK but the Redline Pro is a bit more colour accurate, has thicker walls with a better texture for scattering the light internally, has a better outer diffuser and also has the tie down rings on the corners, very useful for outdoor use. Sorry, I don't know of any other brands except Elinchrom that I would consider to be as good, this doesn't mean that they don't exist.
 
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I’d buy a couple of plain shower curtains.

A good suggestion, but as with all materials not specifically designed for the purpose, be aware of the need for the material to have neutral colour - shower curtains can often be a bit too warm.t.

As Garry mentioned not all white is white. In textiles there is a difference between white fabric & "optically brightened white fabric" & yes, they do degrade by oxygen over time (therefore even the inner diffuser will yellow over time)!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Optical_brightener
 
The difference can be quite stark depending on what you buy, I made the mistake of buying a Walimex softbox something like 5 years ago, the difference in colour temperature compared to most of my kit was huge, it was something ridiculous like 1000k off. Although maybe I missed a trick, should have kept that softbox in place of blue gels. ;)

If you're using Bowens then the front diffusers are slightly warm by design, I've always assumed this was intended because of the two inner baffles on Wafer softboxes, one was white and the other blue so you could adjust the output but they seemed to do this even on their cheaper lines that only used one sheet of ripstop nylon. I think they finally changed the front diffuser when they updated it to the Lumiair branding though (they definitely stopped using the same ripstop).

It's not the end of the world though, even if you are stuck with a terrible softbox it's only really a problem if you've got more than one light source, better to avoid the situation entirely but you work with what you've got right?

I don't think my earlier question really got answered though, how do you tell a good softbox when all you've got to go off are some (typically bad) product photos? Almost all the easy up designs look the same (usually the cheap smooth silver interior, the same locking mechanism etc), there's no way to tell what colour temperature they'll produce, as Gary says you can tell some things from the shape but a beginner isn't going to notice.

I've tried a few different brands before settling on Profoto, I don't actually think they're especially good but more of a good enough standard if that makes sense? What attracted me was they were reasonably standardised, if I need replacement rods, diffusers etc I can source them easily and they actually helped me directly with a problem with one for free which is the second best way to my heart (after the stomach).
 
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If you're using Bowens then the front diffusers are slightly warm by design, I've always assumed this was intended because of the two inner baffles on Wafer softboxes, one was white and the other blue so you could adjust the output but they seemed to do this even on their cheaper lines that only used one sheet of ripstop nylon. I think they finally changed the front diffuser when they updated it to the Lumiair branding though (they definitely stopped using the same ripstop).
I think you're right, my uneducated guess is that Bowens designed their softboxes to produce a warm light, just as Fuji used to produce warm jpegs in their S3 and S5 cameras, because people thought that the results were 'pleasing'. Bowens was probably a bit slow to realise that, with digital especially, it's much better to create neutral colour and leave it to the photographer to apply his or her own preferences in PP..
It's not the end of the world though, even if you are stuck with a terrible softbox it's only really a problem if you've got more than one light source, better to avoid the situation entirely but you work with what you've got right?
It's a bigger problem when using more than one light source, but terrible softboxes that create unwanted flare, hotspots and uncontrolled lighting are still a very bad idea when used on their own.
I don't think my earlier question really got answered though, how do you tell a good softbox when all you've got to go off are some (typically bad) product photos? Almost all the easy up designs look the same (usually the cheap smooth silver interior, the same locking mechanism etc), there's no way to tell what colour temperature they'll produce, as Gary says you can tell some things from the shape but a beginner isn't going to notice.
Well, I've answered it as well as I can. As that nice Mr. Holmes said, "How often have I said to you that when yu have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth? " So, once you've eliminated the products with the obvious design faults, a low-tech product such as a softbox must be OK. I accept that there are some terrible product photos around, especially on one site that I'm pretty embarrassed about, but if people know that the softbox walls need to be stippled then they can at least ring the seller up and ask them to send a detailed photo. . .
 
As Garry mentioned not all white is white. In textiles there is a difference between white fabric & "optically brightened white fabric" & yes, they do degrade by oxygen over time (therefore even the inner diffuser will yellow over time)!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Optical_brightener
But if @DigiFlow is replacing all his diffusers, then no matter how far from 'white' they are it doesn't really matter - they'll be more uniform than all my softboxes - which range from 15 yrs old to less than a year, and come from different manufacturers.

In fact his lights also appear to be from the same manufacturer too, for many of us there's a real mixed bag of kit in our lighting setups.
 
But if @DigiFlow is replacing all his diffusers, then no matter how far from 'white' they are it doesn't really matter - they'll be more uniform than all my softboxes ... In fact his lights also appear to be from the same manufacturer too, for many of us there's a real mixed bag of kit in our lighting setups.

Not quite. I bought a new flash kit 15/20 yrs ago which consisted of 3 x Multiblitz variolux 500 heads that came with 2 x 60x60 softboxes which wasn't ideal but fitted the purpose for the job at the time besides I got a good deal on it. Now that I am getting back into the groove of things I need to invest in additional softboxes and have bought a couple of multiblitz to Bowens adaptors, an AD200 as well as a Lencarta 90 octabox. I still need a 150 octabox and a 140 strip softbox over the next few months which is why I am looking at the finer details in order to make a sound purchase to avoid potential problems. Of course there is always a fix or a way around problems when a mismatch if you already have it all but if buying new then best to set it up so everything works together without a glitsch.
 
Ok guys, I'm 30 years as a studio photographer.

Forget Profoto, it will ruin your life. To begin with they are not a very honest company to deal and then their kit is intentionally marked down from Broncolor, but their repairs costs are extreme. There are no cheap repairs for Profoto, count £1000 as immediately done if it goes down.

Secondly, light is light. My images are no better with Profoto than there where with Bowens or Elinchrom. Your eyes do the work. Any diffuser will go onto a Bowens/Godox and you're done. Except, all my Bowens kit is over 10/20 year and has never failed, profoto needs SOMETHING every year.

Third, clients have no idea about kit, so its nothing to show off about that you dropped £10k on some black boxes.

Have confidence in who you are and spend the money on having a better life, most photographers are poor because of the illusion of professionalism when all the greats of the past will have used tungsten.
 
Over the years I've had Elinchrom stuff go bang on many an occasion. Since buying Godox (AD400 battery powered) they've been absolutely amazing. When you spend hours trawling forums, reading reviews, looking at articles, you can easily get skewed into thinking a certain way - and I can understand your point of view - but also have to say it's quite outdated. (as many have already pointed out) It does appear that although a lot of real people in a busy photography forum with real world experience must be wrong then - and all those of us that have bought Godox - and have had faultless experiences will no doubt all be kicking ourselves in a few months time when they all go bang. If Godox costs you lets say £1500 (number plucked out of the air) and the expensive brand costs you £3000 for your chosen kit - well I'd look at it this way - you'd have to replace the entire system twice before spending the expensive money if you chose Godox or an equivalent. A very respected forum member once said to me 'Buy once - buy right' - and it's true that there's a lot of tat out on the market - but I can most certainly say that Godox doesn't come under the tat category. It is your money - it is your choice - you've asked for views for your outdated knowledge - got a lot of great replies - but seems your stuck in your ways and want to spend more than you need to.
 
Over the years I've had Elinchrom stuff go bang on many an occasion. Since buying Godox (AD400 battery powered) they've been absolutely amazing. When you spend hours trawling forums, reading reviews, looking at articles, you can easily get skewed into thinking a certain way - and I can understand your point of view - but also have to say it's quite outdated. (as many have already pointed out) It does appear that although a lot of real people in a busy photography forum with real world experience must be wrong then - and all those of us that have bought Godox - and have had faultless experiences will no doubt all be kicking ourselves in a few months time when they all go bang. If Godox costs you lets say £1500 (number plucked out of the air) and the expensive brand costs you £3000 for your chosen kit - well I'd look at it this way - you'd have to replace the entire system twice before spending the expensive money if you chose Godox or an equivalent. A very respected forum member once said to me 'Buy once - buy right' - and it's true that there's a lot of tat out on the market - but I can most certainly say that Godox doesn't come under the tat category. It is your money - it is your choice - you've asked for views for your outdated knowledge - got a lot of great replies - but seems your stuck in your ways and want to spend more than you need to.

I think he's gone Chris, but agree with your view - all my Godox stuff going back 7 years is still working (although to be fair so are all my Yongnuo ultra cheap 430 flash guns, so maybe I just don't punish this stuff enough :) )
 
I think he's gone Chris, but agree with your view - all my Godox stuff going back 7 years is still working (although to be fair so are all my Yongnuo ultra cheap 430 flash guns, so maybe I just don't punish this stuff enough :) )

Ah yes - deleted member - didn't notice that.
 
If Godox costs you lets say £1500 (number plucked out of the air) and the expensive brand costs you £3000 for your chosen kit

Agree with the rest of your post but Godox (at least as far as the Wistro range is concerned) are not really that cheap these days.
 
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