Beginner Studio flash kits.

keef32

keef32

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I've been offered a good deal on a studio Flash Kit... But looks like it might be about to fall through.

So, I've got about £100 to spend on some studio flash kit. Can anyone recommend something decent for that money? There's a few on ebay but can't really see much difference between the £30 & £70 stuff.

It'll be mainly for portraits and photos of clothing on busts.
 
keef32 said:
I've been offered a good deal on a studio Flash Kit... But looks like it might be about to fall through.

So, I've got about £100 to spend on some studio flash kit. Can anyone recommend something decent for that money? There's a few on ebay but can't really see much difference between the £30 & £70 stuff.

It'll be mainly for portraits and photos of clothing on busts.
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No, at that price unless you just got 6 right on the lotto and this is the second lucky moment of the day you are not going to get anything decent, you will possibly get something without warranty, dangerous and fallible though

Mike
 
mike weeks said:
No, at that price unless you just got 6 right on the lotto and this is the second lucky moment of the day you are not going to get anything decent, you will possibly get something without warranty, dangerous and fallible though

Mike
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So, as a beginner there is nothing for a lower price that I can get to start out with?

How much should I be spending?
 
Phil V said:
If you shop around, you can possibly get a single Godox head, stand and brolly for not much over £100 I’ll have a look.
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Cheers.

To be honest, its more to really try out taking these kind of photos, want to just get better in general areas.
 
Well you can get by with a speedlight off camera using a trigger. My first "studio" shots in 1998 were with a SB26 on a regular tripod (get a lightstand) using a Sync cable and shot through an ordinary white umbrella.
 
keef32 said:
So, as a beginner there is nothing for a lower price that I can get to start out with?

How much should I be spending?
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Well, this complete twin head kit from Lencarta, complete with customer service and a good warranty, is £359 https://www.lencarta.com/all-produc...t-with-1-softbox-1-umbrella-300-300-kitsf4002

Whatever you choose to buy, also get a simple 5-in-1 reflector such as this one https://www.lencarta.com/all-products/5-in-1-reflectors/life-of-photo-107cm-5-in-1-reflector because it will effectively add an extra light at minimal cost, and is very versatile.

Coming back to your original question, you didn't add any links but even if the very cheap fleabay ones really are flash, then they will be junk - avoid at all costs. The very cheap end are generally fluorescent lamps not flash but in either event they are designed to sell to the unwary, not to actually use.
keef32 said:
Cheers.

To be honest, its more to really try out taking these kind of photos, want to just get better in general areas.
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Understood, but using something totally unsuitable as a learning tool is actually counterproductive because it's so difficult to either learn or to get decent results if the tools are junk - if you wanted to learn the skills of cabinet making, would you buy your woodworking tools in a pound shop?
soeren said:
Well you can get by with a speedlight off camera using a trigger. My first "studio" shots in 1998 were with a SB26 on a regular tripod (get a lightstand) using a Sync cable and shot through an ordinary white umbrella.
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An off-camera speedlight is a poor choice for any kind of primary use in the studio (although very useful as a tertiary tool) but even this would be better than fleabay junk.
Bobsyeruncle said:
What about something like this to get started?
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Interfit...735886?hash=item2ac2cb648e:g:dBYAAOSwt0dcTchB

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Interfit...954904?hash=item2f2c13c098:g:s7EAAOSwEo1cbWqw
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Not the best make, but cheap enough and again something that you could start with.

Lighting isn't about producing enough light, it's about shaping and controlling the light to produce the effects you want. Bad tools don't allow that, and produce serious inconsistencies for which you're bound to blame yourself.
 
keef32 said:
I did have a look at those and another set. But it's just too far out of the way with no free days for a months to get them. Could always ask how much to courier
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If you keep looking you may find something closer to home.
There's a few on gumtree too.
You could also try a wanted ad on here.
I use interfit lights that I picked up cheaply, and whilst they may not be the all singing all dancing models, they work a treat and I've taken a lot if good shots with them.
 
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Bobsyeruncle said:
If you keep looking you may find something closer to home.
There's a few on gumtree too.
You could also try a wanted ad on here.
I use interfit lights that I picked up cheaply, and whilst they may not be the all singing all dancing models, they work a treat and I've taken a lot if good shots with them.
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Care to post a couple of sample shots?
 
Garry Edwards said:
Well, this complete twin head kit from Lencarta, complete with customer service and a good warranty, is £359 https://www.lencarta.com/all-produc...t-with-1-softbox-1-umbrella-300-300-kitsf4002

Whatever you choose to buy, also get a simple 5-in-1 reflector such as this one https://www.lencarta.com/all-products/5-in-1-reflectors/life-of-photo-107cm-5-in-1-reflector because it will effectively add an extra light at minimal cost, and is very versatile.

Coming back to your original question, you didn't add any links but even if the very cheap fleabay ones really are flash, then they will be junk - avoid at all costs. The very cheap end are generally fluorescent lamps not flash but in either event they are designed to sell to the unwary, not to actually use.

Understood, but using something totally unsuitable as a learning tool is actually counterproductive because it's so difficult to either learn or to get decent results if the tools are junk - if you wanted to learn the skills of cabinet making, would you buy your woodworking tools in a pound shop?

An off-camera speedlight is a poor choice for any kind of primary use in the studio (although very useful as a tertiary tool) but even this would be better than fleabay junk.

Not the best make, but cheap enough and again something that you could start with.

Lighting isn't about producing enough light, it's about shaping and controlling the light to produce the effects you want. Bad tools don't allow that, and produce serious inconsistencies for which you're bound to blame yourself.
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Yes I'm aware that true studio strobes are much better in the studio. Still I know of at least 2 photographers consistently turning out great portraits using a few speedlights. As you say a lot better compared to cheap Chinese fleabay knockoffs and speedlights have other uses too so you can get the taste for portraiture both in studio like settings and anywhere else.
 
Phil V said:
If you shop around, you can possibly get a single Godox head, stand and brolly for not much over £100 I’ll have a look.
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^^^This really, plus a white/silver fold-up reflector. It's all you need to get started in portraiture and a great way to learn with a proper system to build on. The main problem* with speedlights is that they don't have modelling lamps so you've no idea of the result until after the shot is taken. Modelling lamps in studio flash heads effectively give you WYSIWYG light to work with.

Experienced photographers can often work without modelling lamps because they've done it 101 times before and know what they're going to get before they even walk into the studio. But if you're just starting out, or want to try something different for shoot 102, then modelling lamps are simply essential IMHO if you're to learn quickly and well, and not get frustrated, disappointed and possibly give up.

Learn the basics of how light works. These are the three main things I wish I'd been told right from the start:
- the larger the light source, the softer the shadows. Size is relative to distance so moving a softbox back makes it effectively smaller and the light harder, and vice versa
- brightness reduces much more than you might think over distance. It's the Inverse Square Law that says if you double the distance, brightess is reduced to one quarter, eg if you have a white background just a few feet behind the subject it will come out grey
- light bounces off a surface (ie reflects) at the same angle it strikes, like a snooker ball off the cushion. Vital info for positioning reflectors or subjects wearing glasses

I would also add, there is only one sun and it shines from above. That's a good starting point for most things ;) And with lighting, less is generally more - using multiple lights does not automatically make things better, but often much worse with a mess of conflicting shadows. Regardless of how many lights you have, in virtually all cases the main light - the key light - does the lion's share of the work. With multiple lights, each one should ideally have a specific purpose, eg key light on the face, accent light on the hair, a third light just for the background etc.

*Slow recycle times and low power are other serious drawbacks with speedlights (though pushing ISO can sometimes get around them) and they're no cheaper than studio heads except at the budget end.
 
I have the Lencarta kit that @Garry Edwards linked to, although mine are the older heads and I've added different modifiers over time, but they're great for the money.
 
I've just purchased the lancarta kit Garry linked too...

Cracking kit, I've found the modelling lamps to be very useful even though not powerful enough to take a photograph as with continious lights, but does give good indicator where your shadows going to fall...

I ordered the kit in the afternoon, and received it the next morning, very fast service indeed.
 
Ellie Jones said:
I've just purchased the lancarta kit Garry linked too...

Cracking kit, I've found the modelling lamps to be very useful even though not powerful enough to take a photograph as with continious lights, but does give good indicator where your shadows going to fall...

I ordered the kit in the afternoon, and received it the next morning, very fast service indeed.
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And how are you getting on with it, results-wise? We saw your very first results, which were very encouraging...
 
That's for the input everyone.

A mate of mine has let me have their older (8-9 years old) Elinchrom 500 set for a very very low price as they have been stored for a couple of years and not known if working or not. So bit of a gamble if they don't work but be stupid not to at that price.
 
If they're in working order, just the job. If you need a trigger, just a basic radio jobbie will do perfectly, eg Yongnuo RF603 - about £20 I think Amazon/ebay. Make sure you get the right cable, could be 1/4in or 3.5mm jack plug, and for Canon on the other end obviously.

Edit: Elinchrom uses a 7mm umbrella slot, inconveniently, not the common 8mm.
 
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HoppyUK said:
If they're in working order, just the job. If you need a trigger, just a basic radio jobbie will do perfectly, eg Yongnuo RF603 - about £20 I think Amazon/ebay. Make sure you get the right cable, could be 1/4in or 3.5mm jack plug, and for Canon on the other end obviously.

Edit: Elinchrom uses a 7mm umbrella slot, inconveniently, not the common 8mm.
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Cheers. I'm pretty sure its coming with umbrellas and radio trigger but good to know!
 
HoppyUK said:
If they're in working order, just the job. If you need a trigger, just a basic radio jobbie will do perfectly, eg Yongnuo RF603 - about £20 I think Amazon/ebay. Make sure you get the right cable, could be 1/4in or 3.5mm jack plug, and for Canon on the other end obviously.
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They're probably the older 'classic' 500 heads which means an Amphenol connector.

HoppyUK said:
Edit: Elinchrom uses a 7mm umbrella slot, inconveniently, not the common 8mm.
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Elinchrom heads usually have a larger umbrella holder by the stand tilt clamp.
 
Picked them up, it's 2 heads, with power cables, a trigger cable and a softbox

So I think I need an umbrella, a stand or 2 and ideally a wireless trigger(not essential) Sound about right to get me started?
 
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simonbarker said:
They're probably the older 'classic' 500 heads which means an Amphenol connector.

Elinchrom heads usually have a larger umbrella holder by the stand tilt clamp.
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The additional 8mm umbrella slot is a relatively recent addition, from memory first seen on the D-Lites. It's easy to check: Elinchrom is unique in offering an umbrella slot very close to the flash tube, almost in the ideal on-axis position, but it's 7mm diam. Other accessories can also be fitted there. Later models, hopefully including the OP's, have an additional umbrella slot attached to the mounting clamp. If present, it will take both 7mm and 8mm umbrella shafts.
 
HoppyUK said:
The additional 8mm umbrella slot is a relatively recent addition, from memory first seen on the D-Lites. It's easy to check: Elinchrom is unique in offering an umbrella slot very close to the flash tube, almost in the ideal on-axis position, but it's 7mm diam. Other accessories can also be fitted there. Later models, hopefully including the OP's, have an additional umbrella slot attached to the mounting clamp. If present, it will take both 7mm and 8mm umbrella shafts.
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Not exactly, the original D-lite introduced a new budget tilt clamp which was too small for the job and after Elinchrom had realised their mistake they reintroduced the type they'd been using with heads before that (classic, Style analogue, digital, FX/BX/RX etc). You can easily spot it on the older models as it's pretty much just a metal plate but regardless it shouldn't matter to the op either way as they're not D-lites.

From 15+ year old heads, probably the type actually being used here (note the metal plate):

elio.jpg

The dinky new D-lite one:

elid.jpg

The current D-lite one (note the plastic plate):

elin.jpg
 
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keef32 said:
So I think I need an umbrella, a stand or 2 and ideally a wireless trigger(not essential) Sound about right to get me started?
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You definitely need stands but everything else is optional at that point, a cheap umbrella, collapsible reflectors and maybe a cheap 7" reflector are all very useful and low cost.
 
HoppyUK said:
The additional 8mm umbrella slot is a relatively recent addition, from memory first seen on the D-Lites. It's easy to check: Elinchrom is unique in offering an umbrella slot very close to the flash tube, almost in the ideal on-axis position, but it's 7mm diam. Other accessories can also be fitted there. Later models, hopefully including the OP's, have an additional umbrella slot attached to the mounting clamp. If present, it will take both 7mm and 8mm umbrella shafts.
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I had some Elinchrom generator units, made in the late 90's, and some of the heads had an off-axis umbrella bracket that accepted the standard 8mm umbrella shaft, as well as the 7mm Elinchrom version that was very near the tube. I think the reason may have been that most pro photographers weren't happy either with the less solid 7mm umbrellas or with their price.

Anyway, definitely not a relatively recent addition.
 
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keef32 said:
This is correct. I've had a Google but can't find if there is a way to make it wireless at all?
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Pretty much the same as before, get a radio trigger then get a Amphenol adapter/cable like this one:

https://www.theflashcentre.com/elinchrom-635mm-jack-to-elinchrom-adapter-i268.html

Ignore the insane pricing at TFC, you can get the adapters/cables much cheaper. Alternatively you can get an IR trigger instead of radio, it's less useful and doesn't work well outdoors but it's a little easier here as you don't need worry about finding a connector for your head and it just fits on top of your camera.

keef32 said:
*Stupid question alert*
Would I need to be able to fire both flashes off at once? If so how as there is only 1 cable and 1 port in my 7dmk2
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You just use the IR sensor to let the other head fire when the first one flashes, you can turn it on or off at the back of the unit. It's the clear button that's labelled with what looks a bit like a speaker pointing down, it's on the right side in the middle.

Assuming it's working the LED should alternate the colour of the LED between red (off) and green (on).
 
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simonbarker said:
but it's a little easier here as you don't need worry about finding a connector for your head and it just fits on top of your camera.
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Confused.. How does it connect? Where does it plug into the head if there is no connector?
 
keef32 said:
Confused.. How does it connect? Where does it plug into the head if there is no connector?
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It fits into the hotshoe of your camera. It doesn't connect to the flash head in a physical sense, there is a plastic-covered receptor fitted to the flash that "sees" the infra-red signal sent by the transmitter and which fires the flash instantaneously. This receptor also "sees" the flash from another flash and again fires instantaneously.

This is pretty old technology now, replaced many years ago by radio technology, but it's good enough for indoor use at short distances and far better than using a sync cable that runs from your camera PC connector (if it has one, otherwise from your camera hotshoe via an adapter) because this is inconvenient and inherently unreliable. In addition, Elinchrom had their own - very poor - synch socket, which they called an Amphenol connector. The downside is that you need to have line of sight between the transmitter and the receptor.

The units you've bought were good in their day, although that was a long time ago. The only real limitations are that they have a very limited range of adjustment and they are also more powerful that you are likely to need.
 
Garry Edwards said:
It fits into the hotshoe of your camera. It doesn't connect to the flash head in a physical sense, there is a plastic-covered receptor fitted to the flash that "sees" the infra-red signal sent by the transmitter and which fires the flash instantaneously. This receptor also "sees" the flash from another flash and again fires instantaneously.

This is pretty old technology now, replaced many years ago by radio technology, but it's good enough for indoor use at short distances and far better than using a sync cable that runs from your camera PC connector (if it has one, otherwise from your camera hotshoe via an adapter) because this is inconvenient and inherently unreliable. In addition, Elinchrom had their own - very poor - synch socket, which they called an Amphenol connector. The downside is that you need to have line of sight between the transmitter and the receptor.

The units you've bought were good in their day, although that was a long time ago. The only real limitations are that they have a very limited range of adjustment and they are also more powerful that you are likely to need.
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I understand how the infrared/radio works via hot shoe but what i got from the pervious reply was that i didn't need a connector at all in my Head... Think that's a misunderstanding on my part.

But for the life of me I cant find a receiver that fits in the Amphenol connector.
 
keef32 said:
I understand how the infrared/radio works via hot shoe but what i got from the pervious reply was that i didn't need a connector at all in my Head... Think that's a misunderstanding on my part.

But for the life of me I cant find a receiver that fits in the Amphenol connector.
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You don't need one, the spherical dome at the back of the flash head is the receptor.
However, if you wanted to upgrade to a radio trigger system then you would PROBABLY need to get an adapter to convert the Elinchrom Amphenol connector to either a standard 3.5mm or 6.5mm connector. I say "probably" because although Elinchrom continued to sing the alleged praises of their own connector for a very long time, they may have struggled to find anyone who agreed with them and they eventually ditched it and meanwhile they fitted either a 3.5mm or 6.5mm additional sync socket to some of their existing flash heads. If your flash heads are late in the production run then they may have one of these Jack sockets.
 
Simon and Garry are better informed than I am on theses older Elinchroms :) But if they're 500Ws and only turn down to 1/4 power, you will struggle to get f/numbers lower than about f/8 at normal portrait distances (ISO100). A 2-stops ND filter over the lens is probably the easiest way to fix that, should you need it, but have a go first.

This is one of the few IR flash triggers currently available (£35 - it's basically a small flash gun with very dark red filter over the front) and would be all you need for wireless working. I have one and it works fine indoors though much prefer radio and one of the cheap triggers I mentioned earlier so I'd heed Garry's advice above. You need to know exactly what type of sync connector you have - post a photo?
https://www.harrisoncameras.co.uk/p...Jm3WxBkK8LM7kRSn9th-nlcYXP1WpSgUaAvqgEALw_wcB
 
A very long time ago, but from memory it isn't on the back panel, it's on the top of the body very near to the back panel.
I remember this because I had quite a few of them back in the 90's, then in about 2000 I made the mistake of buying their latest model, the Micro 750 (I think) and had to send them all back for various reasons, and they also had the problem that the receptor was on the back panel where it hardly ever "saw" the flash. I remember asking TFC why they hadn't put it in the same (sensible) place as the model 500.

If this doesn't help you could ask their UK distributor, www.theflashcentre.co.uk
 
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