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BKphotography

BKphotography

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Hi, TPers!

Currently putting together a list of equipment and other potential requirements that are needed for a large photographic studio.

The studio's main output will be portrait, lifestyle and product photography using sets and white grounds but will probably incorporate video as well.

As with most of our projects, the budget isn't massive so I was thinking of going with the "best bang for your buck" approach.

I've already had some great advice from other pros who I know personally but I was wondering if any of you talented folks may be able to contribute with any of your ideas?

Any input would be greatly appreciated.



Cheers,
BK

PS> Cameras and lenses are taken care of!
 
The question mark would be around video, and also outdoor location work.

But or me, I'd still be looking at Godox in some shape or form (vast range) and not just because of cost - probably centred around the excellent AD600-Pro or AD400-Pro heads supplemented by the AD200 and Godox speedlights. Some people even use their bright modelling lamps for video but that's hardly ideal, and limited.

If you frequent some of the other photo forums, plenty of professional studios are switching to Godox. Any concerns about reliability and service (which I don't have) would be covered by adding a couple of spare units, which is actually a faster/easier way of getting sorted than repairs and probably no more expensive.
 
BKphotography said:
Hi, TPers!

Currently putting together a list of equipment and other potential requirements that are needed for a large photographic studio.

The studio's main output will be portrait, lifestyle and product photography using sets and white grounds but will probably incorporate video as well.

As with most of our projects, the budget isn't massive so I was thinking of going with the "best bang for your buck" approach.

I've already had some great advice from other pros who I know personally but I was wondering if any of you talented folks may be able to contribute with any of your ideas?
Click to expand...

Following a lengthy discussion round here somewhere.. what's your market?

Current opinion on product stuff seems to be divided between LED panels for high throughput e-Commerce to a large area of controllable flash modifiers for high end stuff.

Lifestyle stuff tends to be location-based, so at least one of the Godox battery flash systems, the higher powered the better.

Portrait can be anything from passport headshots to extravagant boudoir.
 
HoppyUK said:
The question mark would be around video, and also outdoor location work.

But or me, I'd still be looking at Godox in some shape or form (vast range) and not just because of cost - probably centred around the excellent AD600-Pro or AD400-Pro heads supplemented by the AD200 and Godox speedlights. Some people even use their bright modelling lamps for video but that's hardly ideal, and limited.

If you frequent some of the other photo forums, plenty of professional studios are switching to Godox. Any concerns about reliability and service (which I don't have) would be covered by adding a couple of spare units, which is actually a faster/easier way of getting sorted than repairs and probably no more expensive.
Click to expand...

That's interesting. I thought about using something like Bowens or even Interfit. I'll have a look into Godox as you've brought up some good points.
 
juggler said:
Following a lengthy discussion round here somewhere.. what's your market?

Current opinion on product stuff seems to be divided between LED panels for high throughput e-Commerce to a large area of controllable flash modifiers for high end stuff.

Lifestyle stuff tends to be location-based, so at least one of the Godox battery flash systems, the higher powered the better.

Portrait can be anything from passport headshots to extravagant boudoir.
Click to expand...

Higher-end of the market so speedlights are not what I'm looking for.

Definitely, no passports and the missus wouldn't be too chuffed with that boudoir stuff. Lol

The lifestyles will be and have been shot on pre-constructed sets (kitchen, living room, bedrooms, garden).

We have a large space that we shoot out of. Looking to take things to another level.
 
Disclaimer: I don't have a permanent studio; YMMV.

I like Lencarta's modifiers because most of it has been well thought out and been through a few iterations.

For quality product photography I'd be wanting at least three heads plus some spares and a wide variety of modifiers and grids, flags, flats and reflectors and a camera stand. Will you be shooting in front of clients? In which case you may be wanting to shoot tethered to a big screen or projector.

Portraiture is a bit easier but if you want full length white background stuff you'll need at least 5 heads, plus spares.
You can add a few reflector holders, air damped stands, boom arms, triggers, brollies, v-flats and a pile of random grip gear.

I'll be honest, I'm intrigued as to how you're going to do all that and build a heap of high end sets on a budget. I have a vague idea what it cost a friend to convert an industrial unit into a space such as you describe.
 
juggler said:
Disclaimer: I don't have a permanent studio; YMMV.

I like Lencarta's modifiers because most of it has been well thought out and been through a few iterations.

For quality product photography I'd be wanting at least three heads plus some spares and a wide variety of modifiers and grids, flags, flats and reflectors and a camera stand. Will you be shooting in front of clients? In which case you may be wanting to shoot tethered to a big screen or projector.

Portraiture is a bit easier but if you want full length white background stuff you'll need at least 5 heads, plus spares.
You can add a few reflector holders, air damped stands, boom arms, triggers, brollies, v-flats and a pile of random grip gear.

I'll be honest, I'm intrigued as to how you're going to do all that and build a heap of high end sets on a budget. I have a vague idea what it cost a friend to convert an industrial unit into a space such as you describe.
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Thanks, Simon. You've given me a few ideas.

I mentioned there wasn't there wasn't a massive budget as I didn't want people recommending Profoto lights and such. More mid range.

The unit was used previously as a large commercial studio. It does require work but it's a good start.

We're also keeping the cost down as there's a bunch of equipment in place already.
 
BKphotography said:
That's interesting. I thought about using something like Bowens or even Interfit. I'll have a look into Godox as you've brought up some good points.
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Bowens are no longer though just this week WEX announced that they've got hold of bankrupt stock of some XMT500 units - made by Godox and actually a repackaged Godox AD600 under the skin so high performance. Prices are keen, but personally I wouldn't go there because the remote control isn't compatible with anything else and the newer Godox Pro versions are better in some key areas like very fast recycle, brighter modelling LED and better colour. The Godox remote control system is a major plus with an excellent user-interface* and it works across the entire range including speedlights, plus it's available for pretty much all camera brands. Interfit build quality and reliability are not up to par for professional work. TBH it boils down to Godox, Elinchrom or Profoto these days - both of the latter also have good remote control systems and a decent range of compatible products (at a price).

In your position, I'd get googling** and up to speed on what's available. A lot has changed in the last few years and the capability of what we have now is pretty amazing. Then go to the Photography Show at the NEC, 16-19th March. It's the only place you'll see all this stuff under one roof, and maybe some show offers. BTW, Godox is also available under a number of other brand names in the UK and globally. In the UK, Essential Photo are a major supplier with identical products under their Pixapro label.

ps Godox uses the Bowens mount, though the newish AD600-Pro (typo edit - that's the AD400-Pro) also has interchangeable mounts for all major lighting brands.

*Godox offers several remote control options, also including the Flashpoint R2 Pro Mk2. This is exclusive to Adorama in the US at the moment and has some handy improvements. Check it out on Flash Havoc who had a hand in designing it.

**Have a read down this forum and ask away, and also check the lighting forums on DPReview and POTY, Flashhavoc.com and Robert Hall on YouTube. Here you go:
https://www.dpreview.com/forums/1025
https://photography-on-the.net/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=35
http://flashhavoc.com/
https://www.youtube.com/user/rrhallPD/videos
 
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HoppyUK said:
Bowens are no longer though just this week WEX announced that they've got hold of bankrupt stock of some XMT500 units - made by Godox and actually a repackaged Godox AD600 under the skin so high performance. Prices are keen, but personally I wouldn't go there because the remote control isn't compatible with anything else and the newer Godox Pro versions are better in some key areas like very fast recycle, brighter modelling LED and better colour. The Godox remote control system is a major plus with an excellent user-interface* and it works across the entire range including speedlights, plus it's available for pretty much all camera brands. Interfit build quality and reliability are not up to par for professional work. TBH it boils down to Godox, Elinchrom or Profoto these days - both of the latter also have good remote control systems and a decent range of compatible products (at a price).

In your position, I'd get googling** and up to speed on what's available. A lot has changed in the last few years and the capability of what we have now is pretty amazing. Then go to the Photography Show at the NEC, 16-19th March. It's the only place you'll see all this stuff under one roof, and maybe some show offers. BTW, Godox is also available under a number of other brand names in the UK and globally. In the UK, Essential Photo are a major supplier with identical products under their Pixapro label.

ps Godox uses the Bowens mount, though the newish AD600-Pro also has interchangeable mounts for all major lighting brands.

*Godox offers several remote control options, also including the Flashpoint R2 Pro Mk2. This is exclusive to Adorama in the US at the moment and has some handy improvements. Check it out on Flash Havoc who had a hand in designing it.

**Have a read down this forum and ask away, and also check the lighting forums on DPReview and POTY, Flashhavoc.com and Robert Hall on YouTube. Here you go:
https://www.dpreview.com/forums/1025
https://photography-on-the.net/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=35
http://flashhavoc.com/
https://www.youtube.com/user/rrhallPD/videos
Click to expand...

Thanks!

Yeah, I knew Bowens went under... but I heard about the "comeback".

I'll look into Godox, not Profoto. Lol
 
Oh, and don't dismiss speedlights. Not so much as a primary light source, but with full remote control compatibility they're so easy to add to dark corners of room sets and interiors, or for a bit of fill-in outdoors :)
 
HoppyUK said:
Oh, and don't dismiss speedlights. Not so much as a primary light source, but with full remote control compatibility they're so easy to add to dark corners of room sets and interiors, or for a bit of fill-in outdoors :)
Click to expand...

Absolutely agree. I have a gaggle already and they get used... a lot. Thanks again, mate.
 
BKphotography said:
Absolutely agree. I have a gaggle already and they get used... a lot. Thanks again, mate.
Click to expand...

Sweet (y) You can make them fully compatible with other Godox heads by adding a little receiver unit.
 
HoppyUK said:
Bowens are no longer though just this week WEX announced that they've got hold of bankrupt stock of some XMT500 units
Click to expand...

Actually WEX say
We are pleased to announce the Wex exclusive re-launch of Bowens, beginning with the XMT500 Flash Head and Twin Kit. Complemented by a wide range of light shaping tools, a 2-year warranty and special limited period launch offers.
Click to expand...

So is it bankrupt stock?

mike
 
BKphotography said:
You've well and truly sent me down a Godox rabbit hole! :LOL:
Click to expand...

Other products are available ;) But the way Godox has come along and dropped a stream of bombs into the sleepy world of professional flash has sent the established players reeling. Bowens blamed them directly for their demise, ironically enough.

I've just realised I've assumed battery-powered heads, which is what I'd go for with both studio and a lot of location work in mind. It certainly adds to the cost but Godox is strong on mains-powered too.

mike weeks said:
Actually WEX say

So is it bankrupt stock?

mike
Click to expand...

I don't know for sure Mike. I'm guessing on that and may be doing WEX a disservice so take with a pinch of salt, but it's an obvious and common explanation for events like this and it fits the circumstances. I'm also assuming that WEX has acquired the brand rights and so will likely stick the Bowens name on other products, but AFAIK WEX is a retailer not manufacturer*.

*Edit: WEX could take it to the next level, not by becoming an actual OEM flash manufacturer per se like Bowens was back in the day, but by doing what most of the other 'brands' are doing these days, ie going to one of the big Chinese flash manufacturers are asking them to go through their parts inventory and put something together with a custom spec, packaged up and sold as Bowens. That's very common and the Bowens name probably has some worthwhile brand equity.
 
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mike weeks said:
So is it bankrupt stock?
Click to expand...

Well they already sold off their existing stock so unless it's that last shipment that kept cropping up in rumours I'm guessing they figured out there's still a good enough margin to have Godox keep making these units, their wording does suggests this is the start rather than the end.

As I've been saying for a while there's a pretty good market in Bowens modifiers, that if nothing else could be kept as a going concern.
 
HoppyUK said:
Oh, and don't dismiss speedlights. Not so much as a primary light source, but with full remote control compatibility they're so easy to add to dark corners of room sets and interiors, or for a bit of fill-in outdoors :)
Click to expand...

Absolutely not. Totally dismiss them. So many disadvantages. Slow to recycle, inconsistent, lack of power, cannot easily add modifers, no modelling light, battery powered... The inconsistency is a major problem.

Dismiss LED lights as well. Again way too many disadvantages.
 
simonbarker said:
Well they already sold off their existing stock so unless it's that last shipment that kept cropping up in rumours I'm guessing they figured out there's still a good enough margin to have Godox keep making these units, their wording does suggests this is the start rather than the end.

As I've been saying for a while there's a pretty good market in Bowens modifiers, that if nothing else could be kept as a going concern.
Click to expand...

My guess is that there's nothing left of Bowens UK and that the units WEX is selling are either from a shipment that was en route when the (sudden) liquidation happened, or from a good pile of components that were waiting for assembly at the Godox/Bowens plant in China. My understanding is that the Bowens assembly facility was run as a separate entity from the main Godox factory to keep the business at arms length. For good reason as it turned out, but as always happens with these things the end was messy and some staff in China got dropped in the poo as well as the UK. A sad way for Bowens to end a mostly stellar career - I started with Bowens and they were leading tech back in the 70s and for decades right up to the time Chinese manufacturing came on stream and undercut everyone, but we've only got ourselves to blame for that by buying it! Bowens was slow and clumsy in reacting.

Further speculation, and sorry to go off-topic, but WEX could be testing the water with this, at very low risk - ie the pulling power of the Bowens brand. If it still has legs, then it would be easy to fire up production again as both the Bowens XMT500 heads and the remote transmitters are clones of current Godox products - WEX could basically take on where Bowens left off.
 
riddell said:
Absolutely not. Totally dismiss them. So many disadvantages. Slow to recycle, inconsistent, lack of power, cannot easily add modifers, no modelling light, battery powered... The inconsistency is a major problem.

Dismiss LED lights as well. Again way too many disadvantages.
Click to expand...

Not all speedlights are the same. They're lower powered obviously at 100Ws or so and have no modelling lamps, but none of those other disadvantages apply to good, modern higher-end speedlights. And you've forgotten a rather longer list of major benefits.

If not LEDs, what do you suggest for video then?
 
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HoppyUK said:
Not all speedlights are the same. They're lower powered obviously at 100Ws or so and have no modelling lamps, but none of those other disadvantages apply to good, modern higher-end speedlights. And you've forgotten a rather longer list of major benefits.

If not LEDs, what do you suggest for video then?
Click to expand...

The power is the least of the issues. What advantages are there? I've very occasionally used them when I need to hide a small extra flash someone for a very specific shot. I once had to put them inside ovens with a red gel for a specific setup, but they are not consistent at all, not in comparison to pro studio strobes.

Obviously continuous lights for video*, and quality LEDs are a great choice, but that's video not photography.

*just seen the OP asked about video as well. In this scenario you need two setups. flash and continuous.
 
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riddell said:
The power is the least of the issues. What advantages are there? I've very occasionally used them when I need to hide a small extra flash someone for a very specific shot. I once had to put them inside ovens with a red gel for a specific setup, but they are not consistent at all, not in comparison to pro studio strobes.
Click to expand...

"not consistent at all" in what way? But whatever way you mean, they're absolutely as consistent as any other type of flash, ie very.

Obviously continuous lights for video, and quality LEDs are a great choice, but that's video not photography.
Click to expand...

You didn't say that, and the OP wants video too.
 
We use about 20 flash heads and 8 led, about half of the heads are godox and have so far never let us down, and we really do give them some real use.... four of them over the last 15 days took around 28,000 images, with no issues at all. :) You cannot go wrong.
 
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HoppyUK said:
"not consistent at all" in what way? But whatever way you mean, they're absolutely as consistent as any other type of flash, ie very.
Click to expand...

Most cheap and small flashes are not consistent at all, either in power or colour temperature. This is why many studios invest in the likes of profoto.

Having made the mistake of hiring studios with cheap lighting, I know just how annoying it can be spending extra hours balancing images because they are a 1/10th stop out or the colour has wavered.

I can see this inconsistency when I use my flashgun at events.
 
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Kieranstandishphoto said:
We use about 20 flash heads and 8 led, about half of the heads are godox and have so far never let us down, and we really do give them some real use.... four of them over the last 15 days took around 28,000 images, with no issues at all. :) You cannot go wrong.
Click to expand...

That's becoming a familiar story, and it must make painful reading for the other big players who've had it their own way for so long. But frankly, they've only suffered from their own complacency. I sincerely hope nobody else goes the same way as Bowens. Elinchrom and Profoto have the tech to compete, but not the prices, due to their more expensive manufacturing base and perhaps because of the cost of their marketing and service overheads with international agents taking their cut. Godox has a new business model too and is not playing by the old rules :eek:
 
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riddell said:
Most cheap and small flashes are not consistent at all, either in power or colour temperature. This is why many studios invest in the likes of profoto.

Having made the mistake of hiring studios with cheap lighting, I know just how annoying it can be spending extra hours balancing images because they are a 1/10th stop out or the colour has wavered.

I can see this inconsistency when I use my flashgun at events.
Click to expand...

Inconsistent power output and colour are two halves of the same coin, caused by not allowing enough time for the flash to recycle. Agree that can be very frustrating but there are various ways around it, ie patience, bumping ISO and turning the flash down, better batteries like Eneloops, or a faster recycling gun like the Godox lithiums (also Profoto and some others). As I said, not all speedlights are the same.
 
Kieranstandishphoto said:
We use about 20 flash heads and 8 led, about half of the heads are godox and have so far never let us down, and we really do give them some real use.... four of them over the last 15 days took around 28,000 images, with no issues at all. :) You cannot go wrong.
Click to expand...
Just last week you said that you have 12 LED lights and now it's 8...
What happened to the other 4?
 
HoppyUK said:
Inconsistent power output and colour are two halves of the same coin, caused by not allowing enough time for the flash to recycle. Agree that can be very frustrating but there are various ways around it, ie patience, bumping ISO and turning the flash down, better batteries like Eneloops, or a faster recycling gun like the Godox lithiums (also Profoto and some others). As I said, not all speedlights are the same.
Click to expand...

But all of those things are a disadvantage, which you don't need to make when you can just have a proper studio strobe. There isn't even any point using a profoto flashgun in the studio. The same cost or less you can get a proper studio head.

Plus most flashguns aren't as adjustable as a studio head, that's another disadvantage.
 
riddell said:
But all of those things are a disadvantage, which you don't need to make when you can just have a proper studio strobe. There isn't even any point using a profoto flashgun in the studio. The same cost or less you can get a proper studio head.

Plus most flashguns aren't as adjustable as a studio head, that's another disadvantage.
Click to expand...

This isn't worthy of any debate Paul. Only a fool would use a speedlight in place of a pukka flash head when there's a choice, but often there just isn't (YMMV). In which case, the option to use a very compact and affordable speedlight is very welcome, with more power and versatility than you're perhaps giving credit for, especially when it's fully compatible with your main radio control system.
 
HoppyUK said:
That's becoming a familiar story, and it must make painful reading for the other big players who've had it their own way for so long. But frankly, they've only suffered from their own complacency. I sincerely hope nobody else goes the same way as Bowens. Elinchrom and Profoto have the tech to compete, but not the prices, due to their more expensive manufacturing base and perhaps because of the cost of their marketing and service overheads with international agents taking their cut. Godox has a new business model too and is not playing by the old rules :eek:
Click to expand...

And don’t forget, there is a new breed of photographers, one that isn’t using smoke and mirrors and equipment to make them look all professional and untouchable by us mere mortals, ones that couldn’t give a stuff what gear they are using, let alone anyone else, as long as it works, if it’s cheap, bonus. technology, advances in post production, and ultimately the end goal of most images these days, has allowed everyone to buy equipment and get results, the big manufactures you mention will certainly feel the pinch and the old school will simply start to lose out on jobs because of price, or move to the cheaper gear.. we could now fill our place up with profoto stuff, but what commercial advantage would that give us, none, actually exactly the opposite.

Remember a few years ago when a gimbal for a dslr was over 15 grand, to put your camera 300 feet in the air was a pipe dream for most now, look now, everyone has access to the latest technology from the likes of godox and DJI. Times have changed, and are continuing to do so at some speed.
 
Garry Edwards said:
Just last week you said that you have 12 LED lights and now it's 8...
What happened to the other 4?
Click to expand...
Apparently they are in transit, DPD are not to sure either which is fun, 4 on our macro rig, 4 on the small 360 (when they turn up, we are swapping out the fluorescents ) and 4 on a product rig. We may even stick a few in the cove just for fun they are so cheap :)
 
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riddell said:
But all of those things are a disadvantage, which you don't need to make when you can just have a proper studio strobe. There isn't even any point using a profoto flashgun in the studio. The same cost or less you can get a proper studio head.

Plus most flashguns aren't as adjustable as a studio head, that's another disadvantage.
Click to expand...
Are you talking 0.3 stop vs 0.1 stop increments? Cause that's really the imperors new clothes for the wast majority.
 
riddell said:
Absolutely not. Totally dismiss them. So many disadvantages. Slow to recycle, inconsistent, lack of power, cannot easily add modifers, no modelling light, battery powered...
Click to expand...

That's poor advice. Every studio should have a few knocking around - they go places that full size heads just can't and are invaluable for a quick accent light.
They're also a much harder light source than any head unless you get into optical snoots.
 
juggler said:
That's poor advice. Every studio should have a few knocking around - they go places that full size heads just can't and are invaluable for a quick accent light.
They're also a much harder light source than any head unless you get into optical snoots.
Click to expand...
Indeed...
riddell said:
I've very occasionally used them when I need to hide a small extra flash someone for a very specific shot. I once had to put them inside ovens with a red gel for a specific setup,
Click to expand...
But the willy waving is always so much more prominent tha the acknowledgment of actual practicalities.

The sheer joy of entering every studio thread and pronouncing how superior he is overrides any sense of proportion.
 
Phil V said:
Indeed...

But the willy waving is always so much more prominent tha the acknowledgment of actual practicalities.

The sheer joy of entering every studio thread and pronouncing how superior he is overrides any sense of proportion.
Click to expand...
Oh I like a good willy waving contest, where do we sign up, our willy waving is much more impressive, it actually causes a slight draft when spun in circles.....
 
Can people really notice a 1/10th of a stop? (I'm curious rather than questioning it)

If so is it important?
 
Fraser Euan White said:
Can people really notice a 1/10th of a stop? (I'm curious rather than questioning it)
Click to expand...

This has already been answered in threads you were part of, yes you can easily see power adjustments between shots but probably not in isolation. I also get the impression you're assuming only one light.

Fraser Euan White said:
If so is it important?
Click to expand...

That's down to the photographer on the day isn't it?
 
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