Studio kit recommendations?

gingerwrinklepup

gingerwrinklepup

Messages
20
Name
Chris
Edit My Images
No
I am primarily an outdoor photographer of dogs but have been offered to rent a place as a pop up studio in a popular spot so I'm looking to invest in my first studio kit!

I've looked around and loved Einstein kits but they're USA only so I'm looking for something similar.

My budget is around £1000 and my current setup is a nikon d7100 and a couple of lenses.

What heads or kits do people recommend available in the UK? I want to be able to do action shots so prefer strobe and as fast as possible.

I also need a background stand which needs to be super sturdy obviously because dogs are going to be running around on it and I don't want it to flop over and damage things. The space ill be using is fairly limiter in size but a telescopic pole setup would be ideal so I can open it up when I have more space!

Thanks for your advice :)

Chris
 
Do you really need something as fast as the Einstein? (most) modern conventional-technology flash heads now have pretty short flash durations, for example our own SmartFlash 2 has a t.1 flash duration of just 1/900th second at full power. There is no direct correlation between flash duration data and the equivalent effect of a given shutter speed using ambient light, but 1/900th second is roughly in line with a shutter speed of 1/900th and personally I would have thought that that was fast enough for your needs.
There is an interesting review of various flash heads that compares flash durations, I can't link you to it directly but if you look at our SmartFlash 2 page and then click on the "Downloads" tab and then click on SmartFlash Review, Digital SLR you'll see it.

If you do need shorter flash durations, then our Superfast 300 is the right tool, but obviously costs more. All of the various flash heads are also available in kit form.

There are of course other makes available too, Elinchrom have several conventional technology flash heads with very respectable flash durations.
 
Garry Edwards said:
Do you really need something as fast as the Einstein? (most) modern conventional-technology flash heads now have pretty short flash durations, for example our own SmartFlash 2 has a t.1 flash duration of just 1/900th second at full power. There is no direct correlation between flash duration data and the equivalent effect of a given shutter speed using ambient light, but 1/900th second is roughly in line with a shutter speed of 1/900th and personally I would have thought that that was fast enough for your needs.
There is an interesting review of various flash heads that compares flash durations, I can't link you to it directly but if you look at our SmartFlash 2 page and then click on the "Downloads" tab and then click on SmartFlash Review, Digital SLR you'll see it.

If you do need shorter flash durations, then our Superfast 300 is the right tool, but obviously costs more. All of the various flash heads are also available in kit form.

There are of course other makes available too, Elinchrom have several conventional technology flash heads with very respectable flash durations.
Click to expand...

To be honest I'm new to studio photography so I don't know what I "need" so should probably ask advice on that first. I really want to branch out from the typical posey shots and into action studio photography to make myself different from competition so I'd prefer a higher speed to freeze action. I usually try and get my shutter speed around 1600 when outside to really freeze the dogs so I'd like to replicate that in the studio if possible.

I'd found a few kits on the internet but are these actually good deals or am I better off getting all the parts seperate especially if I don't want all the pieces like an umbrella? I read a dog photographers blog and liked her pictures and her recommended setup was 2 flash heads with soft boxes and grids and then a reflector as well to start with and then eventually upgrade to a 3 head setup.

Another question is about honey comb grids, do these go on the flash heads under the soft boxes or are they not necessary on soft boxes with grids?

Cheers in advance
 
If you put any 2 photographers in a room together you'll always get at least 3 different opinions, not because they don't know what they're talking about but because the whole thing is very subjective and different people always disagree on the details, and often disagree on the whole approach:)

If you really do need an equivalent shutter speed to 1/1600th then the SuperFast 300 is, IMO, the best choice. It goes down to the equivalent of 1/20,000th.

The value of kits varies between sellers but generally offers extremely good savings - it would be cheaper to buy a kit with umbrellas and throw away the umbrellas than to buy the individual items - but, for your purpose, umbrellas are actually a very good choice - you could though buy a kit with softboxes instead, or buy a kit with umbrellas and upgrade them to softboxes. The only real advantage of softboxes for your purpose is that they can be fitted with honeycombs (grids in Americanspeak, same thing). The honeycomb fits to the front of the softbox, there's an explanation of their purpose here and the same page also has a 360 that demonstrates it.

For the sake of completeness, honeycombs are also available that fit directly onto the standard reflectors that fit on to flash heads, more info here, and again with a 360 (my latest toy). But you wouldn't use these for photographing dogs, unless it's stuffed dogs, because they move around too much:)
 
Welcome to TP :)

Can you give an example of the kinds of images you're wanting to produce? Just a link to something similar on Flickr or Google images.
gingerwrinklepup said:
To be honest I'm new to studio photography so I don't know what I "need" so should probably ask advice on that first. I really want to branch out from the typical posey shots and into action studio photography to make myself different from competition so I'd prefer a higher speed to freeze action. I usually try and get my shutter speed around 1600 when outside to really freeze the dogs so I'd like to replicate that in the studio if possible.

I'd found a few kits on the internet but are these actually good deals or am I better off getting all the parts seperate especially if I don't want all the pieces like an umbrella? I read a dog photographers blog and liked her pictures and her recommended setup was 2 flash heads with soft boxes and grids and then a reflector as well to start with and then eventually upgrade to a 3 head setup.

Another question is about honey comb grids, do these go on the flash heads under the soft boxes or are they not necessary on soft boxes with grids?

Cheers in advance
Click to expand...

Can you link to this blog? Get a better idea of what you're wanting to do.
 
Garry Edwards said:
If you put any 2 photographers in a room together you'll always get at least 3 different opinions, not because they don't know what they're talking about but because the whole thing is very subjective and different people always disagree on the details, and often disagree on the whole approach:)

If you really do need an equivalent shutter speed to 1/1600th then the SuperFast 300 is, IMO, the best choice. It goes down to the equivalent of 1/20,000th.

The value of kits varies between sellers but generally offers extremely good savings - it would be cheaper to buy a kit with umbrellas and throw away the umbrellas than to buy the individual items - but, for your purpose, umbrellas are actually a very good choice - you could though buy a kit with softboxes instead, or buy a kit with umbrellas and upgrade them to softboxes. The only real advantage of softboxes for your purpose is that they can be fitted with honeycombs (grids in Americanspeak, same thing). The honeycomb fits to the front of the softbox, there's an explanation of their purpose here and the same page also has a 360 that demonstrates it.

For the sake of completeness, honeycombs are also available that fit directly onto the standard reflectors that fit on to flash heads, more info here, and again with a 360 (my latest toy). But you wouldn't use these for photographing dogs, unless it's stuffed dogs, because they move around too much:)
Click to expand...

But I'm not sure if I need 1/1600 or not but that's what I usually use for outdoor photography to really reduce blur.

So what setup do you recommend if umbrellas are actually suited rather than soft boxes with grids?

So you either use a grid on a soft box or the grid that you attach directly? And a soft box grid is more suited for this type of photography?

http://www.staceygammonpetphotography.com/studio-pet-photography-tips/

That's the blog I've been looking at. Really like how her photos looked with the two heads and reflector so that's what I was going for but open to be told other or "better" methods!

As for photos I can't really provide them but dogs jumping towards the camera or around the studio is what I'd be aiming for as well as the usual portraits.
 
Where to start...

OK, I now know what you're trying to achieve. That lighting setup is a pretty standard approach to this type of photography and it works well enough, the advantage of using honeycombs on the softboxes is that they not only control the spread of the light, and allow the one at the back to be used as a backlight, they also produce a fairly hard light - which is essential for many dogs because if they have flat (non-reflective) coats it needs this kind of light to stop the coat becoming a detail-less blob.
But, frankly, her photography is pretty average, she is very clearly relying very heavily on her Photoshop skills.

Specific points:
1. Use of a strip softbox for this is totally unnecessary and pointless. This 70 x 100 folding softbox for the front is much more suitable, and is cheaper too, but personally I think that a silver umbrella is a better bet, and far cheaper. And the kit softbox at the back, unless you're going to be shooting Hamlets:)
2. Her light stands are way too tall, these are much more suitable.
3. Use a kit lighting stand at the front/side, fitted with a reflector holder boom arm, and fit a reflector to that. Use the silver side of the reflector.

Other than that, the main requirements are an understanding of dogs, which I'm sure you have, and the ability to take a lot of shots in machine gun mode, which the SuperFast is very comfortable with.
So, perhaps this twin head umbrella kit, add one of the low level lighting stands, a kit softbox and a honeycomb, a reflector holder arm and a reflector and "leave a note to seller" saying that you want one silver umbrella, no white umbrella and only one of the lighting stands and you're good to go, and well under your budget. You will of course get an immediate refund for the bits you're not getting.
 
Garry Edwards said:
Where to start...

OK, I now know what you're trying to achieve. That lighting setup is a pretty standard approach to this type of photography and it works well enough, the advantage of using honeycombs on the softboxes is that they not only control the spread of the light, and allow the one at the back to be used as a backlight, they also produce a fairly hard light - which is essential for many dogs because if they have flat (non-reflective) coats it needs this kind of light to stop the coat becoming a detail-less blob.
But, frankly, her photography is pretty average, she is very clearly relying very heavily on her Photoshop skills.

Specific points:
1. Use of a strip softbox for this is totally unnecessary and pointless. This 70 x 100 folding softbox for the front is much more suitable, and is cheaper too, but personally I think that a silver umbrella is a better bet, and far cheaper. And the kit softbox at the back, unless you're going to be shooting Hamlets:)
2. Her light stands are way too tall, these are much more suitable.
3. Use a kit lighting stand at the front/side, fitted with a reflector holder boom arm, and fit a reflector to that. Use the silver side of the reflector.

Other than that, the main requirements are an understanding of dogs, which I'm sure you have, and the ability to take a lot of shots in machine gun mode, which the SuperFast is very comfortable with.
So, perhaps this twin head umbrella kit, add one of the low level lighting stands, a kit softbox and a honeycomb, a reflector holder arm and a reflector and "leave a note to seller" saying that you want one silver umbrella, no white umbrella and only one of the lighting stands and you're good to go, and well under your budget. You will of course get an immediate refund for the bits you're not getting.
Click to expand...

So other than a background (still looking for recommendations for a strong one to handle dogs jumping on it?) that's a whole setup done? I need nothing else?

I have room in my budget to upgrade to the 3 piece 300 super fast instead of a reflector but I don't know if you think that's over kill or would benefit me in the long run?

You say I would only need one of the small light holders, what about for the reflecter to attach the boom arm to?

I was looking at the 600w super fast but they have less flash duration, is that because they're for producing more light and the 300w would suit me better because they have more duration?

Thanks for all the advice so far!
 
Last edited:
Frankly I don't see a need to get the 3 head kit, at least for now, you can always add another head later if you feel that you need it. More flash heads = more opportunities to light creatively, but dogs don't make creative lighting easy.
I did link to the 5 in 1 reflector you need.
The SuperFast 600 and 300 are almost identical once the power of the 600 has been turned down to half power, and you don't need the 600. You will typically be shooting at about 1/4 power on the 300 or 1/8th power on the 600, at which point they are identical.

As for the background, just get a vinyl one, as wide as you can. Paper is actually better but won't last 2 minutes with dogs on it. And get a background stand, but avoid the cheapies on Ebay, it needs to be strong enough to handle the weight of the vinyl safely. When you've got it, make sure that you tie it down so that it can't tip over.

Feel free to ring me, during office hours, if that will help.
 
Garry Edwards said:
Frankly I don't see a need to get the 3 head kit, at least for now, you can always add another head later if you feel that you need it. More flash heads = more opportunities to light creatively, but dogs don't make creative lighting easy.
I did link to the 5 in 1 reflector you need.
The SuperFast 600 and 300 are almost identical once the power of the 600 has been turned down to half power, and you don't need the 600. You will typically be shooting at about 1/4 power on the 300 or 1/8th power on the 600, at which point they are identical.

As for the background, just get a vinyl one, as wide as you can. Paper is actually better but won't last 2 minutes with dogs on it. And get a background stand, but avoid the cheapies on Ebay, it needs to be strong enough to handle the weight of the vinyl safely. When you've got it, make sure that you tie it down so that it can't tip over.

Feel free to ring me, during office hours, if that will help.
Click to expand...

Thanks Gary for the advice, you've been a star!

Will start with the kit you recommend and go from there.

I was going to use paper for sterilisation reasons because I'll be photographing a lot of dogs! Some people recommend grey because it can be exposed black or white but what do you recommend?
 
Last edited:
I am going to throw a spanner in the works and it is that of power and all the issues that it brings. For a pop-up studio that you could use anywhere then a battery system is a far better choice.

Vinyl would be a good choice as it is wipe clean, plenty of products in most pet stores to cope with dog urine

Having done this type of work in pet stores welcome to the club

Mike
 
mike weeks said:
I am going to throw a spanner in the works and it is that of power and all the issues that it brings. For a pop-up studio that you could use anywhere then a battery system is a far better choice.

Vinyl would be a good choice as it is wipe clean, plenty of products in most pet stores to cope with dog urine

Having done this type of work in pet stores welcome to the club

Mike
Click to expand...

Thanks mike! I'll look into vinyl aswell!

I have access to power at the site so I should be fine with the standard rather than battery packs.

Hope I can learn this, seems like a lot of fun to do!

The only thing missing now is a light meter I think? are these necessary and if so whats a good one to start with? I'm really new to studio so I'm still finding out new things and adding them to the list but as to know which stuff to buy, it's so confusing and stressful!

Edit: I found this one on Wex http://www.wexphotographic.com/buy-sekonic-l-308s-flashmate-light-meter/p1006844 seems to have good reviews?

Diving Pete said:
The lastolite heavy duty stand is fairly well made
http://www.wexphotographic.com/buy-lastolite-heavy-duty-background-support-system/p1009048
Click to expand...

Thanks, that was one of the ones I was looking at :)
 
Last edited:
There are 3 types of people when it comes to light meters.
Those that swear by them
Those that swear at them
Those that don't use them
 
If you'd gone with portable flash for this you would have found it extremely limiting, with low power and long recycling times, and you certaintly wouldn't have been able to take several shots a second.

I agree about the use of vinyl - far better and much more economical for this application than paper, and very easily cleaned.

I don't think you would benefit from using a meter on this. Anyway, your kit is on its way to you, please be sure to post some pics once you've got the hang of it.
 
Cheers guys! I guess with the subject moving all the time a light meter would be redundant lol!

Looking forward to receiving it Gary, the advice you gave was very helpful, will definietly post photos when I've practiced
 
gingerwrinklepup said:
Cheers guys! I guess with the subject moving all the time a light meter would be redundant lol!

Looking forward to receiving it Gary, the advice you gave was very helpful, will definietly post photos when I've practiced
Click to expand...
Mmm
Your job is to manage that. You can't have vastly different light levels across places your subject will be. So it's either large areas with uniform light levels, or restrict the space.
It's your decision what you go for, but they're your trade offs.

Beautiful light is very precise (sometimes to the mm) so you have to prioritise.
 
Really useful thread even though I don't shoot dogs! lol.
 
Garry Edwards said:
If you'd gone with portable flash for this you would have found it extremely limiting, with low power and long recycling times, and you certaintly wouldn't have been able to take several shots a second.
Click to expand...

and generally there is no need to shoot at high frame rates but quoting from a well known supplier :) of a battery flash system

Recycling speed
At full power 2.5 seconds
At half power 1.57 seconds
At quarter power 0.9 seconds
At eigth power 0.6 seconds
At sixteenth power 0.46 seconds
At thirtysecond power better than 0.36 seconds

and eighth power is more than man enough at 400 ISO to do the job

further

Flash duration at full power, t.1. 1/1500th sec
Flash duration at half power, t.1 1/1000th sec
Flash duration at quarter power, t.1 1/900th sec
Flash duration at eigth power, t.1 1/1000th sec
Flash duration at sixteenth power, t.1 850 th sec
Flash duration at thirtysecond power, t.1 1/600th sec

Lovely action stopping ability

"has been designed for hard work and, apart from the top of the generator unit, battery and minor parts of the flash head, is made entirely of metal.

And although it is not actually waterproof, it can be used in wet conditions with reasonable care"

Is that limiting? I think not and having power available is one thing but seeing how dogs bounce around and that will be over mains cables, trust me, I have been there and done it, battery would not be limiting and more importantly you can take on the road anywhere.

Mike
 
mike weeks said:
and generally there is no need to shoot at high frame rates but quoting from a well known supplier :) of a battery flash system

Recycling speed
At full power 2.5 seconds
At half power 1.57 seconds
At quarter power 0.9 seconds
At eigth power 0.6 seconds
At sixteenth power 0.46 seconds
At thirtysecond power better than 0.36 seconds

and eighth power is more than man enough at 400 ISO to do the job

further

Flash duration at full power, t.1. 1/1500th sec
Flash duration at half power, t.1 1/1000th sec
Flash duration at quarter power, t.1 1/900th sec
Flash duration at eigth power, t.1 1/1000th sec
Flash duration at sixteenth power, t.1 850 th sec
Flash duration at thirtysecond power, t.1 1/600th sec

Lovely action stopping ability

"has been designed for hard work and, apart from the top of the generator unit, battery and minor parts of the flash head, is made entirely of metal.

And although it is not actually waterproof, it can be used in wet conditions with reasonable care"

Is that limiting? I think not and having power available is one thing but seeing how dogs bounce around and that will be over mains cables, trust me, I have been there and done it, battery would not be limiting and more importantly you can take on the road anywhere.

Mike
Click to expand...
Yes Mike, I think that the Safari 2 is excellent too - but less than ideal for this because the OP has made it clear that he needs very fast flash durations. The Safari 2 can meet his flash duration needs, but only at full power, where the recycling time is 2.5 seconds - fast for a portable flash but not as fast as the SuperFast that he bought, which at quarter power has much shorter flash durations and will allow continuous shooting faster than his camera can manage.

Also, to get the fastest flash durations with the Safari 2, there would be too much power for the shots that need to be taken. And the solution that we came up with is much cheaper too:)
 
Garry Edwards said:
Yes Mike, I think that the Safari 2 is excellent too - but less than ideal for this because the OP has made it clear that he needs very fast flash durations. The Safari 2 can meet his flash duration needs, but only at full power, where the recycling time is 2.5 seconds - fast for a portable flash but not as fast as the SuperFast that he bought, which at quarter power has much shorter flash durations and will allow continuous shooting faster than his camera can manage.

Also, to get the fastest flash durations with the Safari 2, there would be too much power for the shots that need to be taken. And the solution that we came up with is much cheaper too:)
Click to expand...

As I said, I have done this on a number of occasions and any faster is not needed. As to continuous shooting you are just as likely to miss as achieve.

Mike
 
I appreciate the alternate advice but I agree with Gary, if I have access to power and it's going to hinder my flash duration it's not a route I want to go at the minute because I want a versatile setup which will be able to do portraits and action shots of dogs. If my photography kicks off then I may invest in a battery operated system but for now the day care is my base of operations and I have power to work with and not moving around to different locations. I agree the power cables may turn into a problem though so definitely have to be wary of that.

I'm curious, do people use Flash heads in outdoor photography shoots or stick to speed lights?

I'm usually shooting with a speedlight or nothing at all but curious to see if using a battery operated system is utilized in the industry especially for things like forest photography where natural light is reduced?
 
gingerwrinklepup said:
I appreciate the alternate advice but I agree with Gary, if I have access to power and it's going to hinder my flash duration it's not a route I want to go at the minute because I want a versatile setup which will be able to do portraits and action shots of dogs. If my photography kicks off then I may invest in a battery operated system but for now the day care is my base of operations and I have power to work with and not moving around to different locations. I agree the power cables may turn into a problem though so definitely have to be wary of that.

I'm curious, do people use Flash heads in outdoor photography shoots or stick to speed lights?

I'm usually shooting with a speedlight or nothing at all but curious to see if using a battery operated system is utilized in the industry especially for things like forest photography where natural light is reduced?
Click to expand...
Yes we do.
 
gingerwrinklepup said:
I'm usually shooting with a speedlight or nothing at all but curious to see if using a battery operated system is utilized in the industry especially for things like forest photography where natural light is reduced?
Click to expand...

Godox AD360


DSC_4354.jpg


Without flash

DSC_4356.jpg


With Flash

DSC_4366.jpg


does everything I need

Mike
 
mike weeks said:
Godox AD360


DSC_4354.jpg


Without flash

DSC_4356.jpg


With Flash

DSC_4366.jpg


does everything I need

Mike
Click to expand...

Very cool! Something I'll definitely look into for my outside portraits!

I got my studio yesterday and had a go in my bedroom, kind of got the hang of it but need to play around some more and its difficult because I'm working on limited space until I can get to the Daycare place which opens on the 5th.

I actually found some of my old flash heads which aren't the best but may try a three head setup aswell
 
mike weeks said:
Godox AD360


DSC_4354.jpg


Without flash

DSC_4356.jpg


With Flash

DSC_4366.jpg


does everything I need

Mike
Click to expand...

Nicely done Mike (y)

Just for interest, what were the camera and flash settings for that? Thanks :)
 
Well I've had the kit a few days now, still playing around in my room with it as the space I've got isn't opening until the 5th.
I wouldn't say I've got the hang of it yet, managed to get what I would say is an "ok" shot, no fancy posing or anything as I'm just using a wall at the minute.

Ellie test shots 1 by Chris Jackman, on Flickr

If someone could critique? I know there's some white blow out on the nose on her body is pretty blown out too (any tips on reducing this on patchy dogs?) I think maybe raising the umbrella a little higher would of helped.

I'm nervous about going into a large space, I think I'll have to go at a quiet time and give away a free session or two to get the hang of it.

Thanks again guys, especially Gary, really enjoying experimenting with a new aspect of photography
 
gingerwrinklepup said:
Well I've had the kit a few days now, still playing around in my room with it as the space I've got isn't opening until the 5th.
I wouldn't say I've got the hang of it yet, managed to get what I would say is an "ok" shot, no fancy posing or anything as I'm just using a wall at the minute.

Ellie test shots 1 by Chris Jackman, on Flickr

If someone could critique? I know there's some white blow out on the nose on her body is pretty blown out too (any tips on reducing this on patchy dogs?) I think maybe raising the umbrella a little higher would of helped.

I'm nervous about going into a large space, I think I'll have to go at a quiet time and give away a free session or two to get the hang of it.

Thanks again guys, especially Gary, really enjoying experimenting with a new aspect of photography
Click to expand...
Yes, the umbrella could go a bit higher, but not much.
There's about 1 stop too much light coming from behind, but overall a very good early effort.
gingerwrinklepup said:
Very cool! Something I'll definitely look into for my outside portraits!

I got my studio yesterday and had a go in my bedroom, kind of got the hang of it but need to play around some more and its difficult because I'm working on limited space until I can get to the Daycare place which opens on the 5th.

I actually found some of my old flash heads which aren't the best but may try a three head setup aswell
Click to expand...
Please stick with the 2 heads you have for the moment, adding another will make it much more complicated, and your old flash head won't be able to freeze action, which means that for action shots you'll get sharp images from the SuperFast but blurring from whatever else you're using with them.
 
mike weeks said:
Will have to go back and look at Exif but from memory the flash was about 1/4 power to 1/2 power on the shoot.

The modifier seems to have a slight light leakage issue though

Mike
Click to expand...

That's great Mike, thanks. I guess what I was really wanting to know is flash output, and it's good to see that you were matching what looks like quite bright sun without too much trouble, with maybe a stop in hand (y)
 
Garry Edwards said:
Yes, the umbrella could go a bit higher, but not much.
There's about 1 stop too much light coming from behind, but overall a very good early effort.

Please stick with the 2 heads you have for the moment, adding another will make it much more complicated, and your old flash head won't be able to freeze action, which means that for action shots you'll get sharp images from the SuperFast but blurring from whatever else you're using with them.
Click to expand...


Thanks Gary, definitely want to make improvements and get into the bigger space to make things easier.

I'm having trouble having even light, what position should I have the lights?

At the minute I've got the umbrella at approx 45 degrees to the side, reflector on the opposite side at 45 degrees just infront and then the soft box by the wall with the light heading along it. Should I be facing the soft box at the wall, the subject or keep it where it is?

Should the power be the same on each of the heads?

I think the biggest problem right now is the small room and the fact the walls are two different colours making light bounce very odd.

Thanks

Chris
 
Chris, TBH I never know how to light any subject until I actually start doing it.
Basically, I just look at my subject, work out what type of lighting effect will bring out the qualities that I think suit it best, and then arrange the key light for that effect.
And then I add any effect lights (such as a honeycomb to show texture) and finally I may add a fill light.

Which is why I never understand why anyone sees any value whatever in working to any kind of formulae or lighting diagram...

So, to give any answer at all I have to imagine your dog and the sort of effect I might want to gain.
I would always start with the key light, and the obvious starting point will be directly in front of where the dog is pointing his head, and quite high up.
The reflector would provide the fill for this shot and I would have it on the floor, to pick up spare light and direct it onto the chest and "chin"
(Fill lights don't go opposite the key light unless you watch Youtube "tutorials" or read Practical Photography) :)
The softbox at the rear is lighting the back of the head, it has a honeycomb fitted to prevent lens flare and needs to be almost directly behind (off axis maybe 30 degrees) and aimed at the back of the head.
The power of the key light has to be whatever produces the correct exposure at the f/number you want to use.
The power of the backlight has to be whatever produces the effect you want - there is no formulae for this, imaging the different levels of lighting power you would need to get the same kind of effect on a very glossy black lab compared to a Hungarian Puli :)
 
Garry Edwards said:
Chris, TBH I never know how to light any subject until I actually start doing it.
Basically, I just look at my subject, work out what type of lighting effect will bring out the qualities that I think suit it best, and then arrange the key light for that effect.
And then I add any effect lights (such as a honeycomb to show texture) and finally I may add a fill light.

Which is why I never understand why anyone sees any value whatever in working to any kind of formulae or lighting diagram...

So, to give any answer at all I have to imagine your dog and the sort of effect I might want to gain.
I would always start with the key light, and the obvious starting point will be directly in front of where the dog is pointing his head, and quite high up.
The reflector would provide the fill for this shot and I would have it on the floor, to pick up spare light and direct it onto the chest and "chin"
(Fill lights don't go opposite the key light unless you watch Youtube "tutorials" or read Practical Photography) :)
The softbox at the rear is lighting the back of the head, it has a honeycomb fitted to prevent lens flare and needs to be almost directly behind (off axis maybe 30 degrees) and aimed at the back of the head.
The power of the key light has to be whatever produces the correct exposure at the f/number you want to use.
The power of the backlight has to be whatever produces the effect you want - there is no formulae for this, imaging the different levels of lighting power you would need to get the same kind of effect on a very glossy black lab compared to a Hungarian Puli :)
Click to expand...

Thanks Gary that makes sense, will change the position of the soft box as I had it pointing at the wall!

The reason I asked is to get a base formula and then go from there and then experiment when I have a decent idea of what I'm doing but ill start experimenting and see what I get!

Think I'm going to have to give away a free photoshoots to get a variety of dogs to practise on!
Will post results when I have them!

My dogs are a hungarian vizsla and a spring spaniel by the way so you weren't far off with a puli haha
 
I don't know much about breeds of dogs but I have photographed quite a few and so know very well that there are massive differences in hair type and hair reflectivity (and the same thing applies to humans too - the intensity needed for a hairlight when used to photograph a natural blond with hair in good condition is massively different to that needed when photographing someone with afro hair).

I used to train dogs, including various working dogs and a black lab in good nick, or a Vizla or a Weimerana can be highly reflective, with a few of the "wooly" breeds at the opposite end of the scale - you have to adjust your lighting arrangements, plus light intensity, to suit your subject.

Currently (ignoring my pet GSD) we have two working sheepdogs, one is a veteran short coat and the other is a youngster who is being trained up to take her place, she is the more common long coat - I haven't photographed either, except at a long distance working sheep - but if I did photograph them they would need very different lighting to each other.
 
Garry Edwards said:
I don't know much about breeds of dogs but I have photographed quite a few and so know very well that there are massive differences in hair type and hair reflectivity (and the same thing applies to humans too - the intensity needed for a hairlight when used to photograph a natural blond with hair in good condition is massively different to that needed when photographing someone with afro hair).

I used to train dogs, including various working dogs and a black lab in good nick, or a Vizla or a Weimerana can be highly reflective, with a few of the "wooly" breeds at the opposite end of the scale - you have to adjust your lighting arrangements, plus light intensity, to suit your subject.

Currently (ignoring my pet GSD) we have two working sheepdogs, one is a veteran short coat and the other is a youngster who is being trained up to take her place, she is the more common long coat - I haven't photographed either, except at a long distance working sheep - but if I did photograph them they would need very different lighting to each other.
Click to expand...

That makes sense, so for each dog I photograph I'm going to have to do a ton of fiddling and test shots?

I guess it would make sense to get a note book and take notes of exposure I found best for each breed and coat type then to cut down my prep time. Obviously it's going to depend on the size of the individual and the quality and health of their coat but it'll give a good basis to start from?
 
I don't think that notes will help with exposure (because exposure varies massively with light to subject distance, but they almost certainly will help with guidance on light placement.
 
gingerwrinklepup said:
That makes sense, so for each dog I photograph I'm going to have to do a ton of fiddling and test shots?

I guess it would make sense to get a note book and take notes of exposure I found best for each breed and coat type then to cut down my prep time. Obviously it's going to depend on the size of the individual and the quality and health of their coat but it'll give a good basis to start from?
Click to expand...
Yes but seriously you're over thinking this.

But people who start to obsess about 'settings' and 'notes' do tend to treat this kinda thing like its a confusing mass of numbers. Once you understand the principals, the set up is straightforward, and any necessary tweaks become obvious.

I treat photography more like cooking than baking, you can adjust to taste as you're going along. The baking approach is to use a known good recipe, set up and hope the recipe was correct.
 
Phil V said:
Yes but seriously you're over thinking this.

But people who start to obsess about 'settings' and 'notes' do tend to treat this kinda thing like its a confusing mass of numbers. Once you understand the principals, the set up is straightforward, and any necessary tweaks become obvious.

I treat photography more like cooking than baking, you can adjust to taste as you're going along. The baking approach is to use a known good recipe, set up and hope the recipe was correct.
Click to expand...

That's the type of person I am unfortunately, I'm worried I will come across unprofessional if I play around with things too long or take too many shots without getting it so I wanted a way of reducing the amount of time I'd take. I've never done studio before so I obviously want to know what I'm doing before getting clients! That's why I think I'm going to have to throw a free session at a few people with a variety of dogs.

It doesn't help that I'm waiting to get to the space and practice, I'm kind of impatient and a perfectionist which works again me... Not knowing makes me anxious!
 
Last edited:
Depending on your set up 90& of dogs can be photographed with exactly the same settings and you will get what the customer is happy with. With the darkest of breeds such as a black lab you might want to add a bit of specular lighting and with the lightest of breebs you might need a black reflector, emphasis on might. Be very careful about over analyzing this. If anything it comes down to choice of background - this was done with 2 lights
MGW_2263.jpg


Mike
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top