Studio Lights not firing correctly

[twhite87]

I have two Bowens 400 studio lights, which I fire using Yongnuo 622C triggers. My camera settings are usually 1/125th, f9, ISO 100. This works for me using my Canon 5D3, however I used the exact same setup last night at my local camera club. Some of the attendees were using cameras like a Canon 500D.

The issue I had was that using the same settings as me and whilst the lights were firing, they ended up with a non lit image. I'm guessing this has something to do with the camera firing the flash at the wrong time, but can anyone shed some light on this for me?

 

[mike weeks]

I have two Bowens 400 studio lights, which I fire using Yongnuo 622C triggers. My camera settings are usually 1/125th, f9, ISO 100. This works for me using my Canon 5D3, however I used the exact same setup last night at my local camera club. Some of the attendees were using cameras like a Canon 500D.

The issue I had was that using the same settings as me and whilst the lights were firing, they ended up with a non lit image. I'm guessing this has something to do with the camera firing the flash at the wrong time, but can anyone shed some light on this for me?

Lots of things spring to mind, firmware version of triggers, shutter speed (X-sync) sounds as if you checked, what about rear curtain sync (2nd curtain) - biggest issue though is pre 2012 Canon cameras (from what I read), had the same at a demo and switched to a non-ttl trigger in the end.

Mike

 

[J Veitch]

I'm thinking maybe the body was on rear curtain sync? Or maybe the shutter speed wasn't on 1/125 (something much faster)?

 

[boyfalldown]

I'm guessing James is right. The older Canon bodies may well be incapable of syncing the lights at the same shutter speed as your newer 5d3. What speed were you using?

 

[twhite87]

Lots of things spring to mind, firmware version of triggers, shutter speed (X-sync) sounds as if you checked, what about rear curtain sync (2nd curtain) - biggest issue though is pre 2012 Canon cameras (from what I read), had the same at a demo and switched to a non-ttl trigger in the end.

Mike

I'm thinking maybe the body was on rear curtain sync? Or maybe the shutter speed wasn't on 1/125 (something much faster)?

I'm guessing James is right. The older Canon bodies may well be incapable of syncing the lights at the same shutter speed as your newer 5d3. What speed were you using?

Checked the shutter speed as 1/125th. I'm 90% sure that we check rear curtain sync. Maybe I'll have to set it up in the house and borrow a couple of different bodies and makes to test.

 

[sk66]

Probably a menu setting I would guess. I'm not particularly experienced w/ Canon's but there is a setting for how flash is used. Maybe if the external flash setting is set to TTL it would cause the trigger to pop with a "TTL preflash" command.

 

[boyfalldown]

Checked the shutter speed as 1/125th. I'm 90% sure that we check rear curtain sync. Maybe I'll have to set it up in the house and borrow a couple of different bodies and makes to test.

1/125th should be fine. And rear curtain sync doesn't kick in till speeds below about 1/30. It should be a non issue. Was every photo completely black or did some have half black and some photo?

 

[twhite87]

1/125th should be fine. And rear curtain sync doesn't kick in till speeds below about 1/30. It should be a non issue. Was every photo completely black or did some have half black and some photo?

Every photo was completely black. I think @sk66 might be on to something there. I did try looking through the flash settings on the camera, but don't remember seeing anything that would allow me to manually set the flash, so a TTL pre-flash would have caused this issue I think?

 

[sk66]

Every photo was completely black. I think @sk66 might be on to something there. I did try looking through the flash settings on the camera, but don't remember seeing anything that would allow me to manually set the flash, so a TTL pre-flash would have caused this issue I think?

The 622c defaults to TTL remote control mode. You may have to set it to "mixed mode," particularly for cameras that do not have the flash menu options. It is set by holding the channel set button for a few seconds.

 

[boyfalldown]

Every photo was completely black. I think @sk66 might be on to something there. I did try looking through the flash settings on the camera, but don't remember seeing anything that would allow me to manually set the flash, so a TTL pre-flash would have caused this issue I think?

I'm not so sure about the pre-flash. I'm assuming you'd plugged the triggers into the sync port on the bowens? So the triggers would only have functioned as manual and not attempted to send instruction for pre flashes( which the heads couldn't have understood anyway)

. I guess Mike is correct in that pre 2012 canon bodies don't play nice with ttl triggers and you just need to us manual ones. IFAIK canon changed the TTL protocols around then and there may be something funny between newer triggers and older bodies

 

[mike weeks]

Every photo was completely black. I think @sk66 might be on to something there. I did try looking through the flash settings on the camera, but don't remember seeing anything that would allow me to manually set the flash, so a TTL pre-flash would have caused this issue I think?

Bowens 400 will not do TTL pre-flash so was there any other flash you could have been mistaken by?

Mike

 

[sk66]

Do the triggers smart switch modes? I thought they attempt to do whatever they can based upon their settings... I.e. the receiver will attempt to transmit TTL if it receives TTL (even in mixed mode) and part of that sequence is to trigger the flash through the primary pin/sync port.
The *only* way I can see to get sync timing so far off as to not register is for it to be triggering w/ a pre-flash command.

 

[twhite87]

Bowens 400 will not do TTL pre-flash so was there any other flash you could have been mistaken by?

Mike

Right, I seemed to have missed a load of information here. Sorry for the confusion.

I usually use these lights with a radio trigger (YN622C's) on my camera and one plugged into the sync socket of one of the flash heads. The other flash head then fires via optical trigger.

I then tried this with another camera (I believe it was a 500D, but not 100%. It was definitely an older entry level model). the trigger did not fire, so I tried switching both flash heads onto optical trigger and using the on camera flash to fire the lights. This is when I ended up with a black screen.

* Apologies for the confusion, and the balls up on my part. It's what you get when you rush a post and copy a part of the post and forget to paste it back in * #Pillock comes to mind!!!

 

[mike weeks]

If the camera was set to rear curtain then this would definitely be a likely cause

Mike

 

[boyfalldown]

Right, I seemed to have missed a load of information here. Sorry for the confusion.

I usually use these lights with a radio trigger (YN622C's) on my camera and one plugged into the sync socket of one of the flash heads. The other flash head then fires via optical trigger.

I then tried this with another camera (I believe it was a 500D, but not 100%. It was definitely an older entry level model). the trigger did not fire, so I tried switching both flash heads onto optical trigger and using the on camera flash to fire the lights. This is when I ended up with a black screen.

* Apologies for the confusion, and the balls up on my part. It's what you get when you rush a post and copy a part of the post and forget to paste it back in * #Pillock comes to mind!!!

I don't think you'll have any joy using the on camera flash as a trigger for heaps of reasons. Including the possibility it's ttl pre flashes triggered the lights. The easiest way would be to invest in some cheap manual triggers

 

[sk66]

If the camera was set to rear curtain then this would definitely be a likely cause

Mike

But it's still because of the TTL pre-flash being so far separated from the actual flash sync command... unless I am missing something. The other possibility is if the pop-up is too weak to be seen in the ambient light, or from that angle.

I then tried this with another camera (I believe it was a 500D, but not 100%. It was definitely an older entry level model). the trigger did not fire

There are two possible issues/fixes... If the camera does not have the flash control menu ("Type B" cameras) then the 622 on camera should be put into mixed mode. If it still will not work/sync then they can be put into legacy (dumb) mode using the CF-4 setting.

Edit: this might help
The Other YN-622C User Guide

 

[mike weeks]

But it's still because of the TTL pre-flash being so far separated from the actual flash sync command... unless I am missing something. The other possibility is if the pop-up is too weak to be seen in the ambient light, or from that angle.

Yep if the studio flashes are triggered by the TTL pre-flash then they may not be seen in the final image hence why many battery flashes have S1/S2 triggering to negate such an issue

Mike

 

[HoppyUK]

<snip> so I tried switching both flash heads onto optical trigger and using the on camera flash to fire the lights. This is when I ended up with a black screen. <snip>

Then the studio heads will fire off the pop-up's pre-flash and will be over and done with before the shutter opens.

Nothing to do with second-curtain sync, that a) is not active until shutter speeds go below 1/30sec even when enabled, and b) wouldn't make any difference anyway.

 

[Chaz Photos]

Did any of the camera have RedEye reduction on? this will fire a preflash and the you not get any power left for main shot.

 

[Bobsyeruncle]

I've used studio flash before and triggered it with the on camera flash turned down, but not on TTL. It was a 400d or a 450d, can't remember the exact model.