sun print vs photo paper - help for newbie please!

whooshdemon

whooshdemon

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sue
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Hello

I'm trying to get my head around photo printing for a quick project. Basically I've built a camera obscura out of a cardboard box and a pair of reading glasses for a friend, and am wondering about some evil, fast, dirty way to make some pictures from it. :help: Ideally I want a sheet of paper to stick in it (covered in a big blanket), whip it out and develop on the spot.

I have seen sun print kits which have 10 A4 sheets for about £5, and you develop them by rinsing with water. That seems possible but pricy for what it is.

I think I've read somewhere else that I could use photo paper, and just stick it in a fix bath when its done. I have fix bath (and all the other chemicals) for black and white, slide and colour negative developing - is it the same for paper print processing?

Is this a practical way to do some quick fun prints?

Can anyone help with simple questions like how long to expose the paper to light for to get an image and the basics of photo printing?

Oh, and in case it was sounding easy, I don't have a darkroom (hence no experience in printing photos).

Thanks for any help and advice

Sue
 
You could like you say use photo paper, but you'd need to develop before you fix. It's not dissimilar to processing film but bigger and generally a sheet at a time, also with paper you can usually have a red safe light. In terms of exposure, I can't remember where I get this figure from but I believe most rc paper is about ISO12 so you're looking at fairly long exposures, especially once you think about reciprocity!

Processing on the spot might be a bit tricky if you were to use regular photographic paper as it needs to be kept dark until fixed, but it's not impossible, a big enough changing bag and some sealable tanks for your chemicals you could probably manage it.

Good luck.
 
Hi Dfhaii

Love the ISO number for photo paper - that's terminology I can cope with! Thanks also for explaining that it is just like film - so expose, develop and fix. Processing normal photo paper on the spot, as you say, sounds tricky.

I read my ancient "Teach yourself Photography" (priced at 6/- ) last night, and that talks about a photo paper you expose using daylight for a few minutes and then just swill around with fixer. It calls is "Printing Out Paper" - anyone used this?
 
whooshdemon said:
Hi Dfhaii

Love the ISO number for photo paper - that's terminology I can cope with! Thanks also for explaining that it is just like film - so expose, develop and fix. Processing normal photo paper on the spot, as you say, sounds tricky.

I read my ancient "Teach yourself Photography" (priced at 6/- ) last night, and that talks about a photo paper you expose using daylight for a few minutes and then just swill around with fixer. It calls is "Printing Out Paper" - anyone used this?
Click to expand...

I remember my Aunt showing me some pictures which she had produced using printing out paper many, many years ago (80+ years?). Apparently a 6cm x 6cm negative (in her case) was sandwiched with a piece of this paper, in a frame, and left in sunlight for some time - I haven't a clue as to the exposure times, but assume minutes rather than seconds - and the image created was then fixed using hypo and washed.

Anthony.
 
Anthony.Ralph said:
I remember my Aunt showing me some pictures which she had produced using printing out paper many, many years ago (80+ years?). Apparently a 6cm x 6cm negative (in her case) was sandwiched with a piece of this paper, in a frame, and left in sunlight for some time - I haven't a clue as to the exposure times, but assume minutes rather than seconds - and the image created was then fixed using hypo and washed.

Anthony.
Click to expand...

That sounds like the stuff. I think it used to be quite common but fell out of favour. I think you're right that it was minutes rather than seconds, that makes it ideal for my use of a less than light safe technique with a camera obscura and a blanket!
 
the only problem is POP (printing out paper) is no more. Ilford bought the rights after the original company folded but found they are unable to coat the paper on their machines, and its too expensive to either out source the coating or get new machines for the small volumes of POP they would sell.

There are a few vague hopes they can re-jig the formula but I think it's a pretty long shot from what Ilford themselves have said previously.

Photo paper can work fine, but don't forget you will get a negative image. You can then contact print that onto another sheet of paper to get a positive image. Also if you do use photo paper it might be worth using multigrade filters to get consistent result, or alternatively use graded paper. This means you will get the contrast you want as opposed to whatever the shade of light at the time wants to give.

Paper negatives are definatley an option, try searching apug.org for help
 
raathistle said:
the only problem is POP (printing out paper) is no more. Ilford bought the rights after the original company folded but found they are unable to coat the paper on their machines, and its too expensive to either out source the coating or get new machines for the small volumes of POP they would sell.

There are a few vague hopes they can re-jig the formula but I think it's a pretty long shot from what Ilford themselves have said previously.
Click to expand...

Ah. Right. Bugger. But thanks for saving me from searching photo suppliers like first call one by one...


raathistle said:
Photo paper can work fine, but don't forget you will get a negative image. You can then contact print that onto another sheet of paper to get a positive image. Also if you do use photo paper it might be worth using multigrade filters to get consistent result, or alternatively use graded paper. This means you will get the contrast you want as opposed to whatever the shade of light at the time wants to give.

Paper negatives are definatley an option, try searching apug.org for help
Click to expand...

Thanks - I'll go look at that instead!
 
raathistle said:
[..]

Photo paper can work fine, but don't forget you will get a negative image. You can then contact print that onto another sheet of paper to get a positive image.

[..]
Click to expand...

I was watching an iten on the One Show last week about pinhole cameras and the chap developed the picture - which was indeed a negative - but he then just scanned in the print and inverted it. Ahh, the wonders of our electronic age...

Anthony.
 
Anthony.Ralph said:
I was watching an iten on the One Show last week about pinhole cameras and the chap developed the picture - which was indeed a negative - but he then just scanned in the print and inverted it. Ahh, the wonders of our electronic age...

Anthony.
Click to expand...

I heard tell of a mystic camera that uses no film at all, but produces images by witchcraft called CCDs.

I seem to be working backwards from fully digital to the scanned negative to pinhole to now cutting out the digital altogether!
 
Polaroids......what about polaroids

You could buy a pack of fuji fp100b b/w, they are 3 1/4 x 4 1/4 inches, small but not tiny.
 
I don't see how traditional B&W printing paper (aka the stuff you put through a developer, stopper& fixer etc) would cause a problem. It would be hard setting it up. you would probably have to black-out half of the room, with the obscurer half in and half-out of the blackout (to get a pic).

you would also need a second black sheet over the "entrance" to the obscurer so that other light (other than red) can't get into the blackout/red light room.

the only thing is that if you do this (yes a long exposure, about 5mins long when I did it with a pinhole camera) is that you will get a negative image printed on that paper.

but thats no trouble, you can scan it in, or put another piece of paper under it, and shine a light through!

good luck, hope to see the results too!


OR!

if you had money to waste, you could buy 100or-so 1D's/40d's, take em apart and get to the sensors, then lay all the sensors at the base of the obscurer:LOL:

then configure them to take a shot, and use a PC to get the image put together!

I have no clue on what the pixles for that would be though! 40d is roughly 10mp, so 10x100 = 1000mp camera???? :LOL:! They use stuff like that to look into deep space!
 
I also read about someone designing something similar to what you have made, but it was a light-tight box, and instead of a sheet of white paper, someone got the image projected (in focus and in the right size!) straight onto a hasselblad medium format mirror in the camera, so they could get a shot without the lens (required some tweaking with the camera body though!)
 
One of the old process was gum bichromate,this might work, but I seem to remember the exposures were long (maybe too long for what your doing). Wayne
 
swanseamale47 said:
One of the old process was gum bichromate,this might work, but I seem to remember the exposures were long (maybe too long for what your doing). Wayne
Click to expand...

Yeah I found them. I think the website exact quote is "Gum Bichromate is not an inherently difficult process. With practice and patience successful prints can be produced."

Is it me, or does the second sentance not inspire confidence in the first?
Anyone tried this? How difficult is it in comparison to, say, developing colour slide?
 
AleksanderLoesch said:
I don't see how traditional B&W printing paper (aka the stuff you put through a developer, stopper& fixer etc) would cause a problem. It would be hard setting it up. you would probably have to black-out half of the room, with the obscurer half in and half-out of the blackout (to get a pic).

you would also need a second black sheet over the "entrance" to the obscurer so that other light (other than red) can't get into the blackout/red light room.

the only thing is that if you do this (yes a long exposure, about 5mins long when I did it with a pinhole camera) is that you will get a negative image printed on that paper.

but thats no trouble, you can scan it in, or put another piece of paper under it, and shine a light through!

good luck, hope to see the results too!


OR!

if you had money to waste, you could buy 100or-so 1D's/40d's, take em apart and get to the sensors, then lay all the sensors at the base of the obscurer:LOL:

then configure them to take a shot, and use a PC to get the image put together!

I have no clue on what the pixles for that would be though! 40d is roughly 10mp, so 10x100 = 1000mp camera???? :LOL:! They use stuff like that to look into deep space!
Click to expand...

love the idea of a 1000mega pixel (a giga pixel?) camera! but don't have money to waste... ah such a shame that endless money isn't given to us who could spend it!

Think I'll be trying the photo paper approach because I bought some sun print paper from ebay - and though it exposes in three minutes in direct sunlight, it doesn't show any exposure at all after 6 hours in my camera obscura! I guess its not getting the right amount of light on it as big enough intensity.

So photo paper due from ebay next week - and some sort of mock up travel darkroom to be made from washing up bowls and blankets... wish me luck (or send money for the gigapixel camera).
 
swanseamale47 said:
One of the old process was gum bichromate,this might work, but I seem to remember the exposures were long (maybe too long for what your doing). Wayne
Click to expand...

Yeah gum bichromate sounds good fun. Found this website on it, which made me look around the internet a bit more. Then found this site with other interesting recipes for things like the cyanotype (sun print) paper. And this site sells the chemicals to make them! This has found its way into my (very shallow) darkroom pocket money for now.

But for now a quick play with cyanotypes/sun prints and photographic paper and a mock up dark room in my garage using washing up bowls and dark nights... then chemicals, then see if I am doing enough to justify some proper darkroom kit.:D
 
joxby said:
Polaroids......what about polaroids

You could buy a pack of fuji fp100b b/w, they are 3 1/4 x 4 1/4 inches, small but not tiny.
Click to expand...

do polaroid photos just show whatever they see then? assumed that the camera did something with chemicals or such to make the film active. Anyone know any more about how polaroid film works?
 
whooshdemon said:
love the idea of a 1000mega pixel (a giga pixel?) camera! but don't have money to waste... ah such a shame that endless money isn't given to us who could spend it!

Think I'll be trying the photo paper approach because I bought some sun print paper from ebay - and though it exposes in three minutes in direct sunlight, it doesn't show any exposure at all after 6 hours in my camera obscura! I guess its not getting the right amount of light on it as big enough intensity.

So photo paper due from ebay next week - and some sort of mock up travel darkroom to be made from washing up bowls and blankets... wish me luck (or send money for the gigapixel camera).
Click to expand...

Giga-pixel:LOL::LOL::LOL:

also *hint-hint* I did have some ilford multigrade IV paper for sale if your interested. I was selling it cheaper than anything I could find on ebay!
 
AleksanderLoesch said:
Giga-pixel:LOL::LOL::LOL:

also *hint-hint* I did have some ilford multigrade IV paper for sale if your interested. I was selling it cheaper than anything I could find on ebay!
Click to expand...

Oh if you had caught me three days ago before I put an order in with 7dayshop I'd have had that! What size/number/price did you have in mind? might have it off your hands when I've had my first play with photo paper...
 
oh well lol!

heres the info (copied and pasted from my old for sale thread)

4 Boxes of 50 sheets, OF:

Ilford 8x10" (20.3 x 25.4cm)
MGIV Multigrage RC
De Luxe Pearl
Medium Weight
Black & White
Darkroom Developing paper.

£12 posted (per box)?

lol, good luck either way!
 
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