Sunrise help please!!!!! :(

Jdevaney89

Jdevaney89

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I went out this morning to try capture my first sunrise, wow did i struggle!

Anyone able to advice? The composition isnt great but i tried a few locations and this is literally the best i could come up with, i took a few from this location as the others are utterly useless!

Thanks

James.


DSC_0680 by Jdevaney89, on Flickr
 
Sunrise/set have a large dynamic range so your camera will struggle!
Without filters you only really have 1 option and that's to expose for the sky and let the rest silhouette!
If you can find a location with water that helps,reflections!
 
Hi James. I'm not going to delve into composition etc, as I can't really see much of the foreground here. I'm guessing you've exposed for the sky, which has left the darker foreground areas severely underexposed. Grad filters are very useful at times like this, they have a darker half, to cover the sky and bring the exposure down for that area allowing you to lengthen your shutter speed and expose for the foreground. The problem with shooting into the sun is that it's always going to be so bright. If you don't have filters you could also try bracketing 5 shots dialing in a different exposure compensation for each, then blending in photoshop to get a balanced well exposed image.
 
JakeT1992 said:
Hi James. I'm not going to delve into composition etc, as I can't really see much of the foreground here. I'm guessing you've exposed for the sky, which has left the darker foreground areas severely underexposed. Grad filters are very useful at times like this, they have a darker half, to cover the sky and bring the exposure down for that area allowing you to lengthen your shutter speed and expose for the foreground. The problem with shooting into the sun is that it's always going to be so bright. If you don't have filters you could also try bracketing 5 shots dialing in a different exposure compensation for each, then blending in photoshop to get a balanced well exposed image.
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Beat me to it :)
 
GRADS!!!!!!! :mad:

I have these I've used them before! For goodness sake!! I'll try again later this week :/

Thanks for the reminder :)
 
I'll give it a shot tonight, I want to capture the sun as it's setting, maybe get half the sun over the horizon.. I'm gonna they every other week when I have the Monday off.
 
Im far from an expert at taking sunsets but sometimes there might well be more to the image than you think especially if you shoot in Raw. this was a 60 second fiddle in lightroom, you could do a lot better with the original file but to get the idea what there is in the image to pull out..


12048076716_3d6ec2df8c by harrylessman, on Flickr

 
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very easy really, in lightroom with the adjustment brush i pulled exposure down a bit in the sun then brought the exp up in the foreground and added a bit of clarity to it all. then with the split tones just warmed it all up a bit. its never going to be a great shot but sometimes what looks bad isnt always what it seems. also you may have been better to wait a few more mins and let the sun go down a bit more
 
I has similar problems when i started doing sunset/sunrise photos. My advice - get some ND grad filters and learn how to use photoshop with curves and layers. You could also take a series of exposure shots and combine them as a HDR.
 
You can use 2 ND Grads as a reverse grad, if you overlap the dark parts where the Sun is. Use the lighter of the two grads over the ground, it will make the exposure longer as there will be a ND effect over all the image.
Does that make sense?
 
Yeah that makes perfect sense but i use screw on filters? Ill have to look into this.

As for the lightroom stuff im gonna have a go at this now :)
 
If you want to blend images really easily and get decent results and you only have lightroom I would recommend LR Enfuse. You can try it for free but images are limited to small size. To unlock its a couple of pounds as a donation. Sometimes the dynamic range can be so great between the uber bright sun and dark foreground that nd grads can only help to an extend (they still help though). So sometimes when shooting directly into the sun blending is a great way to go.

Also if you just want to save money and get one ND grad I would recommend a 0.9 Soft. If you have a little Google around you'll see what I mean but soft will be easier to use over hard generally.
 
suggs said:
Im far from an expert at taking sunsets but sometimes there might well be more to the image than you think especially if you shoot in Raw. this was a 60 second fiddle in lightroom, you could do a lot better with the original file but to get the idea what there is in the image to pull out..


12048076716_3d6ec2df8c by harrylessman, on Flickr

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But it looks crap... fringing, noise, edge contrast issues.. and that's only on the low res image I can see here... print the hi res version of that and it will just be a total abortion of an image.


Just use grads. The answer to solving exposure/dynamic range issues doesn't lie in a piece of software. Either grads, or multiple exposures blended in post is the best way to go... recovering all that shadow detail from the underexposed parts of a shot exposed for the sky is a total n00bs way of dealing with it, and indicative of what's wrong with photography these days: Lack of PHOTOGRAPHIC skill.

No one cares about quality any more it would seem.... those shadows are about 5 stops under... you can't just pull 'em up in RAW and expect not to pay a price with quality.

Don't be a n00b. Grads, or a set of shots covering the dynamic range blended with good use of layer masking/blending is the only way to make the best of this and not lose quality.
 
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Pookeyhead said:
But it looks crap... fringing, noise, edge contrast issues.. and that's only on the low res image I can see here... print the hi res version of that and it will just be a total abortion of an image.


Just use grads. The answer to solving exposure/dynamic range issues doesn't lie in a piece of software. Either grads, or multiple exposures blended in post is the best way to go... recovering all that shadow detail from the underexposed parts of a shot exposed for the sky is a total n00bs way of dealing with it, and indicative of what's wrong with photography these days: Lack of PHOTOGRAPHIC skill.

No one cares about quality any more it would seem.... those shadows are about 5 stops under... you can't just pull 'em up in RAW and expect not to pay a price with quality.

Don't be a n00b. Grads, or a set of shots covering the dynamic range blended with good use of layer masking/blending is the only way to make the best of this and not lose quality.
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Take a chill pill and Wind your neck in David Baily that photo was never going to become a masterpiece thats obvious to anyone, it was only a very quick edit to show that some PP can help out at times. What is it with you self righteousness people.......
 
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OP: as noted above, you need to find a way of exposing both for the bright sun, and the relatively much darker foreground. One way of doing this (and what I favour, but then I take a lot of pictures of the sea, which has the marvellous property of being mostly flat) is to use a graduated filter, as noted. But if you have objects that span the area of the frame which is covered by the graduation, they will also be darkened. If they're silhouetted anyway, this doesn't matter - but if they're not, fixing this in PP requires a bit of skill to not look a bit clumsy.

The way around that is to take bracketed shots, again as noted above.

There's another way, though, and it it's this; don't put the sun in your shot. Either put it out of shot entirely, or wait for it to hide behind a cloud, or just park it behind Roseberry Topping :). The latter is what I did here, because I wanted all that lovely colour (and I'm rubbish at making things out of bracketed exposures):


The Power of Dawn by Peter Whysall, on Flickr

and here (the sun is behind that cloud bank just above the horizon):


Huntcliff Sunrise - Gentle Swell by Peter Whysall, on Flickr
 
suggs said:
Take a chill pill and Wind your neck in David Baily that photo was never going to become a masterpiece thats obvious to anyone, it was only a very quick edit to show that some PP can help out at times. What is it with you self righteousness people.......
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Yes.. you gave crap crap advice.
 
It's a privilege to see such a great mind in action.
 
Ok...lets have a go at this in a polite and non-insulting manner ;)
As has been stated the filters are needed, another way is taking a few shots at different exposures and blending them together but for that you'd really need a tripod.
As for the edit, it shows what can be done and as stated it was a quick edit, what Pookeyhead is trying to say, but can't quite muster up the correct etiquette to write it, is lifting shadows quite so dramatically is going to have quite a detrimental effect on the quality, shadow lift will introduce noise, use noise reduction and the image will be soft, try and sharpen and/or increase clarity will just bring the noise back or enhance it.
Now, not everyone wants to print a largish image out and are just happy to see how the image could look and for me Harry has done a good job here and will give the OP an idea of what it would have looked like using grads.
Keep at it and enjoy you photo's. :)
 
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pwhysall said:
There's another way, though, and it it's this; don't put the sun in your shot.
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When you are out watching a nice sunrise or sunset, it's a good idea to look around you to see what the sun is illuminating. It is often more interesting than the shot with the sun in the frame.

Steve.
 
Martyn D said:
As for the edit, it shows what can be done and as stated it was a quick edit, what Pookeyhead is trying to say, but can't quite muster up the correct etiquette to write it, is lifting shadows quite so dramatically is going to have quite a detrimental effect on the quality,
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Trying? That's exactly what I said. All you're doing is repeating everyone else. Don't feel you need to apologise or explain my behaviour Martyn: suggs's advice is what people do when they've no bloody idea what their doing.

Sorry, but advising beginners to recover over 5 stops of shadow detail in post is just wrong, and should be quashed immediately. It is NOT the way to handle this situation. Whether you like my etiquette or not, is neither here nor there. Everyone was giving great advice, and then suggs comes blundering in advising a quick 30 second fix in Lightroom, which to a beginner, may seem really appealing. It's wrong, damaging, and should be dealt with harshly when it happens.
 
Pookeyhead said:
Trying? That's exactly what I said. All you're doing is repeating everyone else. Don't feel you need to apologise or explain my behaviour Martyn: suggs's advice is what people do when they've no bloody idea what their doing.

Sorry, but advising beginners to recover over 5 stops of shadow detail in post is just wrong, and should be quashed immediately. It is NOT the way to handle this situation. Whether you like my etiquette or not, is neither here nor there. Everyone was giving great advice, and then suggs comes blundering in advising a quick 30 second fix in Lightroom, which to a beginner, may seem really appealing. It's wrong, damaging, and should be dealt with harshly when it happens.
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I should apologise as looking back at my reply it comes across as condescending, i've been here long enough to know that crit can seem harsh but it's actually very helpful but someone who is pretty new could see it as an unfriendly aggressive reply....just my opinion and as my mrs will verify, i'm usually wrong ;)
 
Blimey. I have not posted on this forum too much. But, I am rapidly coming to a conclusion that it is one of the most aggressive photography forums that I have come across. Unreal. :(
 
kev2010 said:
Blimey. I have not posted on this forum too much. But, I am rapidly coming to a conclusion that it is one of the most aggressive photography forums that I have come across. Unreal. :(
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I'd agree, The tone of those responses seemed unnecessarily antagonistic regardless of the fact a valid point was being made. The same point could have been made just as effectively without the aggro.
 
The OP wants to learn how to take sunsets, better to be told the correct way, filters or exposure stacking, each have good points and bad depending on the situation, using software to extreme is not going to help anyone.
 
velonoir said:
The principle of the post wasn't at issue, the way it was delivered was.
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If it gets the point across that recovering massive amounts of shadow detail in post is a very n00bish thing to do, and the recourse of those that have no photographic skill whatsoever... then I'm happy. I'm not here to win friends and be popular. He was talking b****x. The end. Why be anything but harsh with people who barge into a thread already full of great advice, just to blurt out a load of crap that is clearly MASSIVELY wrong advice?

Look at the OP's reaction to the recovered image....

Jdevaney89 said:
How did you do that? :eek:
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All he saw was all that shadow stuff he could never manage to get in camera and thought "wow"... "there's my answer right there... no need to bother with all these filter sand stuff"... and so begins another photographer down the path of knowing bugger all and moving sliders around in post processing oblivious to the damage they're doing to their images, and how much better their images would be if they did it properly.

suggs needed to know he was talking crap. He now knows. Sure, he stormed off in a tantrum... but so what? at least he's not talking b****x to beginners any more, which is all I care about.

If you don't like that... please use the ignore button and stop crying about it.
 
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I suspect a lot of people are fouled into thinking landscape photography is easy. To the contrary is my belief. Add in sunrise/sunset where you are pointing virtually direct at the light source and its a whole different ball game again.

You can't polish a turd with a slider bar.

I bet it takes less time to stack multiple exposures or slip on an ND grad than it does to abuse the sliders in PP and hope for a miracle
 
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